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Post by hcnj on Jun 2, 2024 13:58:56 GMT -5
Why? Please don’t be fooled to think the academics and holier than thow approach of the Colonial/Patriot League will not be affected by the new rules of the NCAA. Joe Pridgen just entered the portal. My guess it’s for a big pot of money. Nothing to do with academics. Mark my words, first players then frustrated coaches will leave Holy Cross. As loyal HC fans and alumni, don’t be surprised. I hate say it but I’m afraid HC athletics will become intramural and that if we do get a great player in any sport, that kid will be poached for another schools roster with money in their hands. I do agree with much of what you wrote but obviously not the gratuitous "holier than thou..." stuff. However I do share your conclusion that HC athletics along w/other PL schools may downsize to a lower level of competition but maybe not necessarily. Would HC competing against mostly the same schools in a lower non-athletic scholarship division be so terrible? In my mind close competition on the field/court is most important at any level.I think your effort to try & find a middle ground with honest NIL money is admirable. We'll see. Peace So where does the math of this work its way into the equation? I'm supposing that high schools aren't backing away from their programs, so won't the number of new entrants at the macro level be the same? There's some conjecture about bigger time schools cutting PWO's or other cuts to fund the payments. So now you have lower level FBS still stuck behind the majors and FCS which absorb a huge number of the new entrants. Where do all those talented players go? They won't give up football. At the risk of poking the wonderful and generous HC football collective proponents, many alums would rather fund facilities and coaches salaries vs potentially joining an arms race with no clear end point regarding players. Every kid in every program can go on the market every year. Then each year the appeal goes out for the usual donations plus an extra 1M or we lose our 6 best current players. Having money decide how good your team is will be very different than traditional differentiators like academics/athletics, coaching staff relationships, family or facilities. |
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 2, 2024 14:25:34 GMT -5
IMO, there will be a sweet spot which many schools (incl HC and the PL) will find comfortable with an athletic scholarship and modest NIL compensation- private schools competing against the powerhouse state schools will prove increasingly untenable
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 2, 2024 14:28:34 GMT -5
I do agree with much of what you wrote but obviously not the gratuitous "holier than thou..." stuff. However I do share your conclusion that HC athletics along w/other PL schools may downsize to a lower level of competition but maybe not necessarily. Would HC competing against mostly the same schools in a lower non-athletic scholarship division be so terrible? In my mind close competition on the field/court is most important at any level.I think your effort to try & find a middle ground with honest NIL money is admirable. We'll see. Peace So where does the math of this work its way into the equation? I'm supposing that high schools aren't backing away from their programs, so won't the number of new entrants at the macro level be the same? There's some conjecture about bigger time schools cutting PWO's or other cuts to fund the payments. So now you have lower level FBS still stuck behind the majors and FCS which absorb a huge number of the new entrants. Where do all those talented players go? They won't give up football. At the risk of poking the wonderful and generous HC football collective proponents, many alums would rather fund facilities and coaches salaries vs potentially joining an arms race with no clear end point regarding players. Every kid in every program can go on the market every year. Then each year the appeal goes out for the usual donations plus an extra 1M or we lose our 6 best current players. Having money decide how good your team is will be very different than traditional differentiators like academics/athletics, coaching staff relationships, family or facilities. The math will probably find it's new sweet spot, above the old total donation sweet spot but probably in the same ballpark. One innovation I saw when looking at roster pages of other schools is the addition of a $ symbol next to some player photos next to the X and Instagram logos. I didn't click on to any but I presume it's a pay pal or venmo like function where fans can make a direct NIL tip to the player. That opens up possibilities of a buzzer beating three point shot to win the game generating a ton of tips. |
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 2, 2024 15:30:49 GMT -5
The very thought makes me nauseous.
That said, someone who understands this cr@p, please clarify something for me.
Over the years having known a number of Crusader football, basketball and soccer players oftentimes to discuss career aspirations (pre and post 90wide - kudos td128!), if I met with a student-athlete I went out of my way not to even buy them a cup of coffee - they bought their own and I bought mine. I always thought that was NCAA rinky-dink but thems the rules!
So, if in the future I meet up with a Crusader athlete, can I buy them a meal, or at least coffee, and is that considered OK by NIL? Or still forbidden? the whole thing is STUPID, STUPID. STUPID!
P.S. Knowing a few guys who graduated a couple of weeks ago, I didn't even want to offer a post-commencement meal or snack since they will be playing grad years elsewhere and didn't want to violate NCAA rules even if not HC but the other school.
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Post by football44 on Jun 2, 2024 17:00:21 GMT -5
football44, That is why some alumni have started raising money for NIL payments. Haven't you read any of the posts about their efforts? Rgs I am one of the alumns raising the money. I am part of 1843 LLC in case you were not aware of that fact. |
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 2, 2024 17:09:41 GMT -5
I was not aware and I thank you. I admit being surprised that someone developing 1843 LLC, you would say: "Mark my words, first players then frustrated coaches will leave Holy Cross." Have you given up already? I hope that is not the case.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 2, 2024 17:33:35 GMT -5
I was not and I thank you. I admit being surpried that someone developing 1843 LLC, you would say: "Mark my words, first players then frustrated coaches will leave Holy Cross." Have you given up already? I hope that is not the case. This will reward coaches who can go four for four or three for three each recruiting cycle. One out of the seven in a two year (BB) rectuiting cycle may exceed expectations and leave but if the other six are good picks who become contributors, HC will be fine in a senior driven league like the PL. Then if you can get into the NCAA tournament lightening could still strike just like before NIL. Savvy veteran clubs sometimes take advantage of transient squads loaded with athletic ability. If HC ends up in a subdivision with current mid majors, that opens up the excitement HC fans have been feeling in FCS the last five years. There will be a lane for the Crusaders. |
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Post by football44 on Jun 3, 2024 5:02:04 GMT -5
I was not aware and I thank you. I admit being surprised that someone developing 1843 LLC, you would say: "Mark my words, first players then frustrated coaches will leave Holy Cross." Have you given up already? I hope that is not the case. Not giving up at all. Just admitting to the fact that the NIL system now in place is like a car going down hill without breaks. Getting a school like HC to understand the importance of a strong and vibrant NIL program is critical for the success of our football and mens basketball programs. The point was we do not want to become the minor league team that gets “call ups” every year from larger programs. That would lead any coach to become frustrated. No, no give up here rgs. Our alumni and friends need to support our coaches by giving to our 1843 LLC organization. |
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 3, 2024 6:25:49 GMT -5
Well said, football44!  |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 3, 2024 12:41:03 GMT -5
So where does the math of this work its way into the equation? I'm supposing that high schools aren't backing away from their programs, so won't the number of new entrants at the macro level be the same? There's some conjecture about bigger time schools cutting PWO's or other cuts to fund the payments. So now you have lower level FBS still stuck behind the majors and FCS which absorb a huge number of the new entrants. Where do all those talented players go? They won't give up football. At the risk of poking the wonderful and generous HC football collective proponents, many alums would rather fund facilities and coaches salaries vs potentially joining an arms race with no clear end point regarding players. Every kid in every program can go on the market every year. Then each year the appeal goes out for the usual donations plus an extra 1M or we lose our 6 best current players. Having money decide how good your team is will be very different than traditional differentiators like academics/athletics, coaching staff relationships, family or facilities. The math will probably find it's new sweet spot, above the old total donation sweet spot but probably in the same ballpark. One innovation I saw when looking at roster pages of other schools is the addition of a $ symbol next to some player photos next to the X and Instagram logos. I didn't click on to any but I presume it's a pay pal or venmo like function where fans can make a direct NIL tip to the player. That opens up possibilities of a buzzer beating three point shot to win the game generating a ton of tips. An NIL is a contract between a player and a third party. The player must offer something as part of the contract, e.g., appearances, endorsements, etc. An NIL is not a GoFundMe page with potentially anonymous donors rewarding good or bad performance. How would it look if a HC booster gifted a Colgate player $1,000 for missing a key basket in the PL championship game?. |
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Post by hchoops on Jun 3, 2024 12:43:06 GMT -5
The math will probably find it's new sweet spot, above the old total donation sweet spot but probably in the same ballpark. One innovation I saw when looking at roster pages of other schools is the addition of a $ symbol next to some player photos next to the X and Instagram logos. I didn't click on to any but I presume it's a pay pal or venmo like function where fans can make a direct NIL tip to the player. That opens up possibilities of a buzzer beating three point shot to win the game generating a ton of tips. An NIL is a contract between a player and a third party. The player must offer something as part of the contract, e.g., appearances, endorsements, etc. An NIL is not a GoFundMe page with potentially anonymous donors rewarding good or bad performance. How would it look if a HC booster gifted a Colgate player $1,000 for missing a key basket in the PL championship game?. Ideal |
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 3, 2024 13:36:29 GMT -5
How can you outlaw a tip or a bonus? It's accepted for quality performance. Coaches have incentive bonuses. Some take-out stands used to have "no tipping" signs, now you have to fill in a tip section when you swipe for a coffee to go. I bet if push comes to shove a college could cut a player from the team for taking a tip or pay-pal directly from a fan instead of a collective but could any entity legally stop it absent an agreement to throw the game or something? I doubt it's against the law.
It's not how I want college sports to go. Maybe there's a way to put restrictions into a scholarship agreement and the scholarship is dependent on following them.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 3, 2024 14:20:37 GMT -5
Is there any requirement that the player's name, image, or likeness actually be used for the player to receive the NIL payments?
We hear the examples of the Ford Dealer paying NIL $$$ for the player's endorsement of the dealership. Okay, makes some sense: "Hi, I'm Joe Smith quarterback of the Big State University Lions. Come on down to Centerville Ford to meet me on Sunday morning and look at the new lineup of Ford cars and trucks". The University of Kentucky's biggest booster, as I understand things, is Joe Craft, chairman of Alliance Coal. He gives millions and millions to UK. Will we hear "Hi. I'm John Doe, starting point guard for your Wildcats, and the only anthracite coal I endorse is Alliance Coal." . It sounds as absurd as the entire NIL phenomenon.
If there is an actual requirement for usage of the name, image, and likeness, I can see a lot of calendars and yearbooks being used to squeeze in all the players images. We'd see a dozen basketball players being [aid $10,000,00 for the use of their names and images on a team calendar that generates $80,000 in sales. What a sham. I do know that the boosters do not expect to get any financial return for their NIL donations...........
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Post by hcnj on Jun 3, 2024 14:36:22 GMT -5
Phreak, in the case of HC and our 3rd party collective, I assume the Collective is not a for-profit entity. So other than what any athlete normally does like volunteer community service, speak to recruits, what would our athletes be asked to do as services for their NIL. I understand if they were sponsored by businesses for appearances, likenesses, promotions but I don't understand the work you perform for a college collective. Any help is appreciated especially by someone as skeptical as me about this process.
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Post by hcnj on Jun 3, 2024 14:37:46 GMT -5
Missed your post KY, similar set of questions.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 12, 2024 18:33:19 GMT -5
He's not done yet.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 12, 2024 18:59:58 GMT -5
The line of scholarships will likely be quite short.
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Post by hcnj on Jun 12, 2024 23:44:51 GMT -5
Maybe the next iteration of this legal mess will be a lawsuit that since anyone can attend a college at any age and take courses, an athlete should be able to do the same thing and represent a school athletically as long as he/she matriculates. "Drew Lowden retires at the age of 40, played for 11 colleges and made $xx over his 22 yr career as a college student athlete. He will also be drawing a nice pension thanks to the latest settlement between the courts and NCAA."
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 13, 2024 6:53:44 GMT -5
I guess it is time for a bit of sarcasm/humor to enter the NIL arena.  |
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Post by Tom on Jun 13, 2024 7:01:59 GMT -5
Probably straying a little too far from athletics, but as a prospective employer, I would be hesitant to hire someone who went to four different colleges to get a Bachelor's. Two is not uncommon today, but four seems like a lot. Maybe the job market today is so good it won't matter
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Post by efg72 on Jun 13, 2024 7:09:17 GMT -5
Maybe the next iteration of this legal mess will be a lawsuit that since anyone can attend a college at any age and take courses, an athlete should be able to do the same thing and represent a school athletically as long as he/she matriculates. "Drew Lowden retires at the age of 40, played for 11 colleges and made $xx over his 22 yr career as a college student athlete. He will also be drawing a nice pension thanks to the latest settlement between the courts and NCAA." We laugh, but what happens if someone/group challenge the eligibility requirements and restrictions for playing college sports WHAT IS THE NCAA AGE LIMIT? While the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) does not set an official age limit for student-athletes to play college sports, their strict eligibility requirements can limit older students’ ability to play a sport AGE-LIMITING FACTORS Division 1 and 2 Division 1 (D1) and Division 2 (D2) colleges require high school student-athletes to enroll in college no later than 12 months post-graduation. Upon acceptance, these students have five years to compete in four full years of college sports, as they can opt to redshirt (sit out of competitive gameplay for a season) for one of their four eligible years. Note: The D1 and D2 eligibility grace periods for ice hockey players and tennis players differ: Men’s and Women’s Tennis D1: 6 months D2: 12 months Men’s Ice Hockey D1: 21st birthday D2: 3 years All Other Sports D1 & D2: 12 months Ice hockey players have until their 21st birthday to enroll in a D1 school and a grace period of three years post-graduation to enroll in a D2 school. Tennis players have a grace period of six months post-graduation to enroll in a D1 school and 12 months to enroll in a D2 school. Division 3 Division 3 (D3) schools have a semester-based eligibility clock rather than strict grace periods or a five-year eligibility window. D3 student-athletes have 10 semesters to compete in gameplay, and they can drop out of school and return to finish their 10 semesters at any time. This means there are no eligibility-related restrictions that limit the age cap for D3 student-athletes. OTHER NCAA ELIGIBILITY REQUIREMENTS Along with age-limiting eligibility factors, the NCAA requires student-athletes to meet several other eligibility requirements related to amateurism rules and academic performance. While student-athletes across all three divisions must meet the NCAA’s definition of an amateur athlete, academic requirements vary. D1 and D2 schools typically have stricter core course and GPA requirements than D3 schools. Division 1 eligibility requirements For D1 athletes, academic requirements are stringent. To be eligible to compete, students enrolling in college during the 2022-23 or 2023-24 school years must: Graduate high school with a core course grade-point average (GPA) of at least 2.3 Pass 16 core courses Receive a final amateurism certification Division 2 eligibility requirements To be eligible to compete in athletics, D2 athletes must: Graduate high school with a core course GPA of at least 2.2 Pass 16 core courses Receive a final amateurism certification Division 3 eligibility requirements The NCAA doesn’t set initial eligibility requirements for D3 athletes. It’s up to the individual institutions to set those. Athletes who do not meet the academic requirements may still be able to compete in college if they receive a waiver from the NCAA. View our full breakdown of NCAA eligibility requirements for more information School-specific requirements Besides NCAA eligibility requirements, athletes must also meet school-specific requirements. These vary depending on the type of school and sport. For example: Some schools have their own academic requirements that athletes must meet to play sports, such as holding a certain GPA. Other schools have additional requirements for athletes transferring from another school. These requirements may include sitting out for a certain number of games or completing specific courses. Keep this in mind as you decide which schools are the best fit for you. EXCEPTIONS The NCAA’s five-year rule stipulates that a student-athlete cannot compete in any one D1 college sport for more than four seasons. These four seasons must fall within a period of five calendar years. That said, the NCAA can grant exceptions. These include: Studying abroad Internships Military service and/or religious missions Pregnancy Circumstances beyond control Study abroad The NCAA may allow student-athletes to study abroad without losing a year of eligibility. Athletes must meet certain academic requirements and get approval from the NCAA to earn this exception. Internships Athletes who take part in internships can do so without losing a year of eligibility provided they meet certain requirements. This is valuable for athletes who want to gain work experience in their career field. Military service and/or religious missions The NCAA grants exceptions to the five-year rule for students who participate in military service and/or religious missions. Athletes who take this route must complete a certain amount of coursework before they can compete. The specific requirements vary depending on the athlete’s sport. Pregnancy Athletes who become pregnant and/or have a child during their college career can receive an exception from the NCAA. These athletes can take a leave of absence from competition to take care of their child. The NCAA grants this exception on a case-by-case basis. Circumstances beyond control NCAA eligibility requirements include a special exception for athletes kept from competing because of circumstances beyond their control. These can include severe injuries or medical conditions, extreme financial hardship, and the effects of natural disasters. The NCAA grants this exception on a case-by-case basis. . |
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Post by hcnj on Jun 13, 2024 9:31:36 GMT -5
Efg, that was the point. That if we go back to Curt Flood in professional sports and now this whole evolution in college sports I'm not sure there is any legal basis to restrict this. Now schools may be shamed into some kind of limit on age or broader eligibility where they choose not to participate. Professional sports has morphed to where everyone gets a currently acceptable cut of the dough so you go along to get along. Everyone knows that professional sports is very dangerous compared to other occupations (head injury issues from a few years ago) but "best efforts" and money paved over issues. But college is very different and some have-nots could at least float something to see what happens.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 13, 2024 18:52:04 GMT -5
Probably straying a little too far from athletics, but as a prospective employer, I would be hesitant to hire someone who went to four different colleges to get a Bachelor's. Two is not uncommon today, but four seems like a lot. Maybe the job market today is so good it won't matter It won't matter...all he has to say is I was a D-1 athlete and that fixes everything. |
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Post by timholycross on Jun 14, 2024 8:13:44 GMT -5
Why did Druzi wait so long given the logjam that's most likely to exist for a spot on a team?
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 14, 2024 8:52:52 GMT -5
The next question for me would be, "why would anyone, other than Drew, care?"
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