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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 11, 2018 14:15:41 GMT -5
8485 used to post a chart on the old board, which showed that HC winning basketball games directly correlated with increased attendance.
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Post by thecrossisback on Mar 11, 2018 14:16:32 GMT -5
2002-03: 2,959 2003-04: 3,274 Encouraging but I’m not sure replicable without total HC dominance given the overall decline in college basketball attendance in general. Why? Make a strong out of conference schedule with a lot of fan giveaways. Play BC, Umass, Providence, try to schedule those Big East and Atlantic Ten opponents at the beginning of the season.
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Post by joe on Mar 11, 2018 14:20:20 GMT -5
Encouraging but I’m not sure replicable without total HC dominance given the overall decline in college basketball attendance in general. Why? Make a strong out of conference schedule with a lot of fan giveaways. Play BC, Umass, Providence, try to schedule those Big East and Atlantic Ten opponents at the beginning of the season. Sure. But are we going to do this? And we won’t be playing those game at home right? Every game would be an event, more or less, if we played in a bigger name league.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 11, 2018 14:21:12 GMT -5
Encouraging but I’m not sure replicable without total HC dominance given the overall decline in college basketball attendance in general. Why? Make a strong out of conference schedule with a lot of fan giveaways. Play BC, Umass, Providence, try to schedule those Big East and Atlantic Ten opponents at the beginning of the season. None of those teams are coming to the Hart Center. Best we can get is an A10 team. An HC team that consistently ranks in the top 100 will draw 3,000+.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 11, 2018 16:01:58 GMT -5
Those #'s are what they are but let's just say that I am skeptical that those were the actual "fannies in the seats" back then. #HCcreativeaccounting
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Post by rf1 on Mar 11, 2018 16:06:28 GMT -5
HC will never consistently draw 2500 while playing in the PL. We didn't when Willard was winning in the early 2000s. We may get a few games at that #: Winter HC, a big PL game, a rare name OOC opponent etc but the years of a packed or near packed Hart every game are as dead as disco. 2002-03: 2,959 2003-04: 3,274 Even if Holy Cross was to consistently draw in the high 2k to low 3k range, that is not going to get an invite to a higher profile league such as the Big East or even A-10.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 11, 2018 16:28:41 GMT -5
Those #'s are what they are but let's just say that I am skeptical that those were the actual "fannies in the seats" back then. #HCcreativeaccounting Given that I was there for the very tail end of those higher attendance figures, I believe those totals to be accurate. However, I do agree with you that during the last couple of years there has definitely been some overreporting (or people buying tix but not showing). But I'm sure you could say the same about most schools. Been to games at Army with announced crowds around 1,000 but at best 500 people actually there.
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Post by ncaam on Mar 11, 2018 16:31:19 GMT -5
At the navy b-ball game a couple weeks ago exclusive of family there were six fans. I counted them.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 11, 2018 16:32:10 GMT -5
2002-03: 2,959 2003-04: 3,274 Even if Holy Cross was to consistently draw in the high 2k to low 3k range, that is not going to get an invite to a higher profile league such as the Big East or even A-10. Attendance not the only factor. And remember we have the DCU. But regardless, an invite to a better conference is only coming if we improve in the win column and that will drive attendance back to 3K+. There are definitely several A10 schools who draw less than 3500. In fact, our average attendance in 02-03 that SOV posted would have sold out Rose Hill Gym for the season.
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Post by rf1 on Mar 11, 2018 16:55:03 GMT -5
Even if Holy Cross was to consistently draw in the high 2k to low 3k range, that is not going to get an invite to a higher profile league such as the Big East or even A-10. There are definitely several A10 schools who draw less than 3500. In fact, our average attendance in 02-03 that SOV posted would have sold out Rose Hill Gym for the season. Those A-10 schools are a problem the league would rather not add to.
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 11, 2018 16:59:06 GMT -5
8485 used to post a chart on the old board, which showed that HC winning basketball games directly correlated with increased attendance. Here you go, updated to include this year.
Purple bars are average attendance (Hart Center only. Removed all DCU games) Yellow line is winning percentage. They follow one another pretty closely.
I keep threatening to go back to see what average attendance looked like at the auditorium for the 10 years prior to opening the Hart Center, but have not been able to go dig thru the archives of the T&G on microfilm to even see if box scores included attendance in 1968. I have a hypothsis that Worcester support in the Auditorium was not that much greater in the 1965 - 1974 era than now and that the opening of a shiny new "state-of-the-art" Hart Center in 1975 combined with a really good/nationally ranked team with an all American in Ronnie Perry made the '75 - '80 period the outlier. Maybe this summer.
Click to enlarge.
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Post by bikeman on Mar 11, 2018 17:06:02 GMT -5
HC would sell out the season in season tickets if they upgraded. Worcester is the 2nd largest city in New England.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 11, 2018 17:14:46 GMT -5
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Post by hc87 on Mar 11, 2018 17:33:25 GMT -5
Holy Cross could have had a following approximating PC's today if we had gone BE in 1979...we've beaten several horses to death ovah this.
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Post by spenser on Mar 11, 2018 17:54:21 GMT -5
Holy Cross could have had a following approximating PC's today if we had gone BE in 1979...we've beaten several horses to death ovah this. So many horses that the Humane Society may decide to investigate. We are not getting into another conference because no one wants us. Fact. The only potential way, however unlikely, of a change happening is to win in the PL.
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Post by bigfan on Mar 11, 2018 18:05:36 GMT -5
Too many posters on this board have a negative attitude that really hurts. Those people should change and help those who want to be in a better league and I'm sure they do love everything that Holy Cross stands for except the sports program. We should like BC, Fordham, Xavier, St. Joe's, St. Bonaventure, LaSalle, Villanova etc. who compete in higher profile leagues.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 11, 2018 18:34:00 GMT -5
You want to start the process? Then stop with the excuses, and start taking advantage of opportunities. The defending A-10 regular season champs, URI, are coming to the DCU next season. Do the BUCKNELL thing, raise your play for 40 minutes, not 20, not 38 (Dayton, 07-08) and WIN the game. Go out to the Mullins Center and beat UMass. Schedule more 2-1's and get some better teams to come to Worcester. Ramp up, for crying out loud.
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Post by bikeman on Mar 11, 2018 19:08:54 GMT -5
Regarding local interest, there is one thing some here don't understand. If PL member HC plays Providence at the DCU, attendance is around 3-4000. If BE member HC plays Providence at the DCU, attendance is 8-10000.
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Post by bikeman on Mar 11, 2018 19:10:44 GMT -5
For HC to have consistently larger crowds, there must be more season ticket holders. There never will be while in the PL.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 11, 2018 19:56:18 GMT -5
Haven't looked up BC's home attendance yet, but here are some of the UMass numbers for this season:
URI 4,194 Providence 4,215 Georgia 4,794 George Mason 2,243 LaSalle 2,456 St Louis 4,121 Duquesne 2,953 VCU 3,322 GW 2,641 Dayton 4,245
Now, during the Calipari years the numbers were certainly a lot better, but I guess at least at a place like UMass attendance is not a slam dunk.
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Post by rf1 on Mar 11, 2018 20:13:48 GMT -5
The list below has the A-10 2017-18 Home Attendance numbers for the conference through the last regular season home game. Keep in mind the league had for the most part a down year (still somehow manged to get its usual three NCAA bids) which did negatively impact the numbers at some schools:
DAYTON | 16 games | 213,377 | 12,997 VCU | 18 games | 137,466 | 7,637 RICH | 15 games | 97,379 | 6,492 SLU | 18 games | 112,237 | 6,235 URI | 16 games | 99,466 | 6,217 SBU | 14 games | 60,007 | 4,286 DAV | 13 games | 55,600 | 4,277 GMU | 17 games | 69,491 | 4,088 SJU | 13 games | 47,946 | 3,688 UMass | 17 games | 50,901 | 2,944 GW | 17 games | 45,019 | 2,648 LAS | 14 games | 26,755 | 1,911 DUQ | 19 games | 34,464 | 1,814 FOR | 17 games | 26,638 | 1,567
Other New England D1 schools worth comparison: PROV | 17 games | 162,315 | 9,548 UCONN | 16 games | 125,271 | 7,829 ***BC does not list attendance stats on its athletic site
Rhode Island Note: In the sixteen seasons that the Ryan Center has been open, a total of 1,268,744 have come out to watch 252 contests (regular & post season games - excludes exhibitions). The sixteen year average per game stands at 5,035 (66% of capacity). Keep in mind that URI attendance was probably not helped by the fact that it only made the NCAA Tournament the last two years as it had to previously settle for numerous NIT appearances (6) during this sixteen year span. NCAA runs drive up fan interest and help sell season tickets which are the key component to attendance.
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Post by JRGNYR on Mar 12, 2018 8:54:47 GMT -5
Too many posters on this board have a negative attitude that really hurts. Those people should change and help those who want to be in a better league and I'm sure they do love everything that Holy Cross stands for except the sports program. We should like BC, Fordham, Xavier, St. Joe's, St. Bonaventure, LaSalle, Villanova etc. who compete in higher profile leagues. I understand what you're going for here but when you really drill down, I think there are some schools you don't want to emulate here, or simply can't.
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Post by res on Mar 12, 2018 9:48:47 GMT -5
3. Since Bucknell is often mentioned, its a good model to understand and follow. Alums understand its an academic first school and pride that graduates getting good jobs and having positive careers. They embrace being a sports underdog and seem to take pride in what they can accomplish not just in basketball but all sports. Their track, lacrosse, wrestling, swimming, etc. programs are surprisingly good. In basketball, while they typically lose, they schedule 3-5 of the top names in the sport each year. Basketball is almost a "brand." Surprising amount of alums travel to basketball games around country (not in numbers but relative to size of alumni base) and go to "watch parties" around US (friend just told me he attended one in Dallas for PL Championship). That is certainly my position. I remember being amused by some of the comments of posters on the Arkansas message board prior and subsequent to their game against us in 2006. A few of them referred to Bucknell as one of those "academic" schools. Not only did they not seem to have any sense of irony in that characterization, they used academic in a pejorative sense. If some "higher" league ever came knocking on its door, which I strongly doubt will ever happen, I would hope Bucknell would politely decline. Now, that being said, I admit a guilty pleasure in watching the more sordid corners of college basketball so I guess that makes be somewhat of a hypocrite. In my defense, I've long since stopped watching Duke play North Carolina or Ohio State play Michigan State. My interest lies almost entirely in the ranks of the mid- and low-major leagues. I don't believe that most of the schools in these leagues are necessarily more honest or purer in spirit than those in the "P6", but they have less opportunity and incentive to cheat in any meaningful way. In any event, I always like an underdog.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 12, 2018 10:50:29 GMT -5
Now, that being said, I admit a guilty pleasure in watching the more sordid corners of college basketball so I guess that makes be somewhat of a hypocrite. In my defense, I've long since stopped watching Duke play North Carolina or Ohio State play Michigan State. My interest lies almost entirely in the ranks of the mid- and low-major leagues. I don't believe that most of the schools in these leagues are necessarily more honest or purer in spirit than those in the "P6", but they have less opportunity and incentive to cheat in any meaningful way. In any event, I always like an underdog. I was all in on March Madness for a long time, but in the last 5 years or so, I have stopped watching the tournament after the mids and lows are gone. While the level of play among the bigs is certainly elevated, the collateral damage they've caused has wrung all the pleasure out of it for me.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 12, 2018 12:33:40 GMT -5
Now, that being said, I admit a guilty pleasure in watching the more sordid corners of college basketball so I guess that makes be somewhat of a hypocrite. In my defense, I've long since stopped watching Duke play North Carolina or Ohio State play Michigan State. My interest lies almost entirely in the ranks of the mid- and low-major leagues. I don't believe that most of the schools in these leagues are necessarily more honest or purer in spirit than those in the "P6", but they have less opportunity and incentive to cheat in any meaningful way. In any event, I always like an underdog. I was all in on March Madness for a long time, but in the last 5 years or so, I have stopped watching the tournament after the mids and lows are gone. While the level of play among the bigs is certainly elevated, the collateral damage they've caused has wrung all the pleasure out of it for me. Play isn't elevated, talent (among the bigs) is. They're not around long enough to become accomplished players, not that most of them belonged in college in the first place.
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