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Post by nhteamer on Nov 14, 2018 9:20:54 GMT -5
true story
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2018 9:25:00 GMT -5
43-58 (22-32).
Very good basketball mind, but probably not the right guy to turn the program around given the state it was in after Kearney and Brown.
I hope we win 20+ games, win the PLC, and make some noise in the NCAA Tournament so posters can call me a fool.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 14, 2018 9:41:47 GMT -5
Sorry, but Carmody likely would have had a tough job landing anything better than HC from the volunteer position at Fairfield that we hired him away from. That doesn't typically happen with coaches who you are "lucky to have."
"Great" coaches also do not win 45.8% of their games over a 16+ season stretch.
I understand why some people like him, especially after what we had in our previous two coaches and considering that the remaining fans of HC basketball are starting to get desperate for success after the last 9 seasons, but Carmody has done a below average job at Holy Cross.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 14, 2018 10:04:21 GMT -5
Well, he did win a PL title and an NCAA game. That is not "below average" by any means. His recruiting has also improved over the last two years and next year's frosh look to be good as well.
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 14, 2018 10:31:47 GMT -5
If we make HALF our layups last night he takes a PL team into a Big East arena, plays 5 vs 7, and still wins.
That is superior coaching.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 14, 2018 10:57:07 GMT -5
If we make HALF our layups last night he takes a PL team into a Big East arena, plays 5 vs 7, and still wins. That is superior coaching. If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas. If we had enough roster depth to assemble a second team that could challenge the starters in practice, maybe they would have missed less fewer shots. I struggle to believe that 202 pound frosh center Verbeek is challenging people in the paint in practice. Providence was seemingly making a run whenever they wanted in the second half last night and were going to wear us down with our lack of depth. If the game was closer or our lead was larger at the start of the second half, it would have impacted when and how long their runs were. It's not exactly accurate to just add points from missed layups to the final differential and assume that would be the new score. (And Ed Cooley is not exactly the bar for determining whether an opposing coach is great or not.)
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Post by nhteamer on Nov 14, 2018 11:01:03 GMT -5
FS2 thought so
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Post by Ray on Nov 14, 2018 11:26:34 GMT -5
The incessant complaining from a couple of posters have driven me away from this place. I was at the game last night and am not even motivated to share any observations because of the constant axe-grinding here. Every thread, every topic, same handful of posters. We're in-season now, I don't understand why people can't put the axes away and focus on this team's outlook. Put your axes away until April.
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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 14, 2018 11:35:01 GMT -5
I mean Carmody is ok. Some of his lineup decisions don't work. But as a comparison in the same number of years Nate Davis is 69-35 and has never won less than 14 games in league play. Carmody's team won a championship, so its not like he didn't have the players.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 14, 2018 11:49:22 GMT -5
nht,
I admire the attempt to have a positive thread on the team during the season. However, you should know that some will post the same negative thing over and over (perhaps also blaming the AD - and the AD's parents for having him) no matter the point of the thread. We will also be told the season records for selected years (though the PL title and the NCAA win are at usually omitted) as if readers of CROSSPORTS were unaware of that. It does get tedious. Try to keep the faith...even when looking at missed bunnies. Try also to remember the attacks on Torey Thomas and people saying he should not play because of missed layups after steals. IIRC he had quite a career at HC. This team has talent, a good coach and tremendous desire. If anyone deserves patience and support, they do.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2018 12:13:18 GMT -5
Why is Bill Carmody off limits? At this point in Milan Brown's career at HC, the pitchforks were out, and many agreed it was warranted. Brown didn't have the pedigree that Carmody had, but if we are judging solely based on results at HC, the two are pretty similar to date (yes, the run in the PLT and NCAAT was fun!). For Brown, we were told: "Wait until his guys are seniors." Well, we are in year four for Carmody, so it's time to start winning.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2018 12:13:47 GMT -5
I mean Carmody is ok. Some of his lineup decisions don't work. But as a comparison in the same number of years Nate Davis is 69-35 and has never won less than 14 games in league play. Carmody's team won a championship, so its not like he didn't have the players. Nathan Davis was available when we were looking for our next head coach.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2018 12:37:00 GMT -5
Davis inherited players far more talented than the ones CBC inherited. I believe that Davis inherited their 3 all league seniors from last season, two of whom were back to back players of the year To compare them from now on is valid, not earlier.
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Post by lou on Nov 14, 2018 12:59:13 GMT -5
I personally like to use the 9 vs 1 matchup a few years ago when talking about Davis and Carmody
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Post by Ray on Nov 14, 2018 13:16:34 GMT -5
Why is Bill Carmody off limits? At this point in Milan Brown's career at HC, the pitchforks were out, and many agreed it was warranted. Brown didn't have the pedigree that Carmody had, but if we are judging solely based on results at HC, the two are pretty similar to date (yes, the run in the PLT and NCAAT was fun!). For Brown, we were told: "Wait until his guys are seniors." Well, we are in year four for Carmody, so it's time to start winning.
Nice strawman. Show me where anyone said that Carmody should be "off limits"? I think there's pretty widespread agreement with your ending point, "it's time to start winning". But if losing to Michigan and Providence in November are going to be used as data points to show that the winning isn't happening, that isn't exactly objective. Even St. Ralph Willard had a lousy record in these reach games. (I believe the last time we beat PC, and only time in the past ~25 years, was in RW's first game at HC.)
For the record, I said the same thing about Brown, and about Tom Gilmore, late in their tenures. Decisions will get made when warranted. Say what you will about Pine (and I know some of you will say them), but he's at least demonstrated that he's willing to fire coaches who aren't delivering. So I don't think calling for Carmody's pink slip every time Austin Butler misses a layup is really adding any value around here.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 14, 2018 13:20:23 GMT -5
...only if you believe that making the same argument over and over makes it "better" (as opposed to boring). I agree that no coach is off limits if we are discussing a new point. I felt that it was time for FCMB to move on, but I was very tired of hearing the numbers of his record at MSM over and over and over.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 14, 2018 13:52:27 GMT -5
Davis inherited players far more talented than the ones CBC inherited. I believe that Davis inherited their 3 all league seniors from last season, two of whom were back to back players of the year To compare them from now on is valid, not earlier. Can we compare their recruiting from when they got on the job? For example, perhaps it's valid to say that Davis has done a better job in recruiting because with his first five scholarships he did not have the following: -3 players who are no longer enrolled at his school for disciplinary reasons -2 players who are not contributors in their Junior and/or Senior years
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Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2018 14:16:28 GMT -5
I thought you liked to deal with wins and losses. What the current players on both teams, recruited by these coaches, will accomplish in wins is the determinant of the coaches’ evaluations. Bucknell seniors O’Reilly and Jones have played less than Ziggy (far less than Zig as a junior, and probably injured currently)and LeSann(if these are the 2 players you refer to)
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Post by bison137 on Nov 14, 2018 15:43:13 GMT -5
. Bucknell seniors O’Reilly and Jones have played less than Ziggy (far less than Zig as a junior, and probably injured currently)and LeSann(if these are the 2 players you refer to) Fwiw, both O'Reilly and Jones have suffered a number of serious injuries during their careers. Jones was a starter for the first half of his sophomore year before breaking his foot. Had another injury midway through his junior year and is suffering from a knee problem now. O'Reilly saw a lot of playing time the first half of his sophomore year but then developed a chronic back problem plus a couple of foot injuries. His playing time this year will be very limited due to his back - which has affected his long-range shooting a lot.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 14, 2018 16:49:45 GMT -5
I'm optimistic about Coach Carmody--I think he is going to move the program significantly forward. I really like our Sophomore class and think it will come to be regarded as a very special class. Think about this: wasn't Jacob Grandison the 6th player the staff landed? He's high-po for a guy added after many other coaches would have said their recruiting class was finished. Here are the marks I am expecting to hit
19 or more wins this year
20+ wins and play in PL championship game by next season
20+ wins and win PL championship by 20-21
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2018 17:02:08 GMT -5
"Year 9?"
-- SADERS
In all seriousness, if the best we can do with a roster chockfull of Carmody's recruits is win 19 games and have zero expectations for the PLT / postseason play, then that's not very good.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 14, 2018 17:13:21 GMT -5
. Bucknell seniors O’Reilly and Jones have played less than Ziggy (far less than Zig as a junior, and probably injured currently)and LeSann(if these are the 2 players you refer to) Fwiw, both O'Reilly and Jones have suffered a number of serious injuries during their careers. Jones was a starter for the first half of his sophomore year before breaking his foot. Had another injury midway through his junior year and is suffering from a knee problem now. O'Reilly saw a lot of playing time the first half of his sophomore year but then developed a chronic back problem plus a couple of foot injuries. His playing time this year will be very limited due to his back - which has affected his long-range shooting a lot. BIson, I see that Sestina did not play vs Canisus. Is it known how long he is out for ?
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Post by bison137 on Nov 14, 2018 17:14:42 GMT -5
Fwiw, both O'Reilly and Jones have suffered a number of serious injuries during their careers. Jones was a starter for the first half of his sophomore year before breaking his foot. Had another injury midway through his junior year and is suffering from a knee problem now. O'Reilly saw a lot of playing time the first half of his sophomore year but then developed a chronic back problem plus a couple of foot injuries. His playing time this year will be very limited due to his back - which has affected his long-range shooting a lot. BIson, I see that Sestina did not play vs Canisus. Is it known how long he is out for ? He has supposedly been told he can likely return to practice on Friday, but Davis after the game implied he may not rush him back. His absence makes a massive difference.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2018 17:29:29 GMT -5
Why is Bill Carmody off limits? At this point in Milan Brown's career at HC, the pitchforks were out, and many agreed it was warranted. Brown didn't have the pedigree that Carmody had, but if we are judging solely based on results at HC, the two are pretty similar to date (yes, the run in the PLT and NCAAT was fun!). For Brown, we were told: "Wait until his guys are seniors." Well, we are in year four for Carmody, so it's time to start winning.
Say what you will about Pine (and I know some of you will say them), but he's at least demonstrated that he's willing to fire coaches who aren't delivering. So I don't think calling for Carmody's pink slip every time Austin Butler misses a layup is really adding any value around here.
Pine has not fired anyone who he has hired, for the record.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Nov 14, 2018 17:35:34 GMT -5
Carmody is in the 4th year of a five year contract, iirc. Isn't this typically the point at which extensions are negotiated?
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