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Post by Tom on Jan 8, 2019 9:15:06 GMT -5
I disagree with the logic that Coach Carmody's record at Northwestern is evidence that he is not a good coach
We like to clamor about admissions not letting in quality athletes. And that's in a league that is supposed to be a basically level academic playing field . That isn't true in the Big 10, where the playing field makes no pretense of being academically level. Northwestern, by choice, is at a big disadvantage because it will not accept athletes that would be academic stars at many of their conference rivals. With that handicap, Coach Carmody was never able to become a league powerhouse. He was able to become far and away the most successful basketball coach the school had ever seen.
In my opinion, not overcoming a major handicap to win the Big 10 - only reaching the level of the school's most successful coach - is a poor argument for the premise that Coach Carmody is not a good coach
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 15, 2019 10:32:00 GMT -5
Because -- Holy Cross : The Patriot League :: Northwestern : The Big Ten Please. You're grasping. So can I interpret that to mean that you're a fan of Carmody's system and style and think it will actually bring a high level of success to HC, and reverse miserable results on the road in conference games over the last 16 seasons? In Carmody's first 3 years at HC he was 7-20 (.259) in PL road games. Of those 7 wins, the highest PL finish was 5. The average PL finish of those 7 teams was 7.7, and the average PL winning percentage was .349 Carmody was 0-12 in road games against the top 4 teams in the PL during his first 3 seasons. 1-13 vs the top 5 teams 2-14 vs the top 6 teams 2-17 vs the top 7 teamsThese are just simple numbers. After last night's dreadful defensive performance at Bucknell, and assuming Bucky finishes in the top 4 of the league, Carmody is now 0-13 on the road against teams that finish in the top 4 of the PL regular season standings. Hardly "great."
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Post by gks on Jan 15, 2019 10:39:23 GMT -5
So can I interpret that to mean that you're a fan of Carmody's system and style and think it will actually bring a high level of success to HC, and reverse miserable results on the road in conference games over the last 16 seasons? In Carmody's first 3 years at HC he was 7-20 (.259) in PL road games. Of those 7 wins, the highest PL finish was 5. The average PL finish of those 7 teams was 7.7, and the average PL winning percentage was .349 Carmody was 0-12 in road games against the top 4 teams in the PL during his first 3 seasons. 1-13 vs the top 5 teams 2-14 vs the top 6 teams 2-17 vs the top 7 teamsThese are just simple numbers. After last night's dreadful defensive performance at Bucknell, and assuming Bucky finishes in the top 4 of the league, Carmody is now 0-13 on the road against teams that finish in the top 4 of the PL regular season standings. Hardly "great." Those numbers tell me that HC has not been very good. Players have to play and they came out slow and lethargic last night. Want to rip him as a recruiter....maybe. He can scheme and scout and drill all he wants. To me it's easy. HC is and has been middle or bottom of the PL pack talent-wise for about 10 years now.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 15, 2019 10:57:43 GMT -5
After last night's dreadful defensive performance at Bucknell, and assuming Bucky finishes in the top 4 of the league, Carmody is now 0-13 on the road against teams that finish in the top 4 of the PL regular season standings. Hardly "great." Those numbers tell me that HC has not been very good. Players have to play and they came out slow and lethargic last night. Want to rip him as a recruiter....maybe. He can scheme and scout and drill all he wants. To me it's easy. HC is and has been middle or bottom of the PL pack talent-wise for about 10 years now. Carmody has certainly done a very poor job of managing scholarships and creating a deep roster, but the top of our rosters over the last few years have been (at least) above average for the PL. With a truly "great" coach, we should be able to devise schemes that can elevate that talent, but Carmody has a very stubborn approach and does not adapt the scheme to meet the specific talents of the players on the roster. The only time we actually had a scheme advantage under Carmody was when he went to the 1-3-1 in the PL Tournament 3 years ago, and Eric Green fueled a defense that caught the league completely off guard. Unfortunately, Carmody has yet to show any other tricks up his sleeve during his time at HC.
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Post by gks on Jan 15, 2019 11:07:27 GMT -5
Those numbers tell me that HC has not been very good. Players have to play and they came out slow and lethargic last night. Want to rip him as a recruiter....maybe. He can scheme and scout and drill all he wants. To me it's easy. HC is and has been middle or bottom of the PL pack talent-wise for about 10 years now. Carmody has certainly done a very poor job of managing scholarships and creating a deep roster, but the top of our rosters over the last few years have been (at least) above average for the PL. With a truly "great" coach, we should be able to devise schemes that can elevate that talent, but Carmody has a very stubborn approach and does not adapt the scheme to meet the specific talents of the players on the roster. The only time we actually had a scheme advantage under Carmody was when he went to the 1-3-1 in the PL Tournament 3 years ago, and Eric Green fueled a defense that caught the league completely off guard. Unfortunately, Carmody has yet to show any other tricks up his sleeve during his time at HC. I'm going to disagree with the talent. Just don't think it's all that good. The PL Tournament run was lightning in a bottle. It happens. Got hot and they were hitting shots that most games don't fall. Carmody has a past that was successful. He didn't suddenly forget to coach.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 15, 2019 11:24:25 GMT -5
Carmody has certainly done a very poor job of managing scholarships and creating a deep roster, but the top of our rosters over the last few years have been (at least) above average for the PL. With a truly "great" coach, we should be able to devise schemes that can elevate that talent, but Carmody has a very stubborn approach and does not adapt the scheme to meet the specific talents of the players on the roster. The only time we actually had a scheme advantage under Carmody was when he went to the 1-3-1 in the PL Tournament 3 years ago, and Eric Green fueled a defense that caught the league completely off guard. Unfortunately, Carmody has yet to show any other tricks up his sleeve during his time at HC. I'm going to disagree with the talent. Just don't think it's all that good. The PL Tournament run was lightning in a bottle. It happens. Got hot and they were hitting shots that most games don't fall. Carmody has a past that was successful. He didn't suddenly forget to coach. His successful past was from 1996-2000. Not exactly a couple years ago. His time at Northwestern (.476 winning percentage, never advanced to Big10 semifinals) was only "successful" when compared to the shmorgishborg of lousy coaches who preceded him there. First-time head coach Chris Collins followed him and has done a better job with the program. I don't think anyone would say that he "doesn't know how to coach," but he has just been significantly overrated based on actual performance (on the court, off the court, and in recruiting) at Holy Cross.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 15, 2019 11:27:41 GMT -5
Recruiting and assembling a roster has been much worse than the X's and O's.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 15, 2019 12:10:02 GMT -5
Recruiting and assembling a roster has been much worse than the X's and O's. Too bad we couldn't have had Milan Brown recruit and Bill Carmody coach, that's my position.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 16, 2019 0:56:13 GMT -5
PL teams have a book on us. And it isn't a mystery.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 16, 2019 1:18:36 GMT -5
Carmody is a good offensive coach....again, it what it is....he can only do so much with who he can recruit.
Willard was a great defensive coach...but that only took HC so far as well.
We are what we are...a middling (at best) D1 program that can only rise so far given the PL restrictions...
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 16, 2019 10:04:37 GMT -5
Carmody is a good offensive coach....again, it what it is....he can only do so much with who he can recruit. Willard was a great defensive coach...but that only took HC so far as well. I don't think you're being very fair to Willard here. Willard's defense was far, far superior to Carmody's offense. Avg defensive rank under Willard: 69.5 Avg offensive rank under Carmody: 267.25 Carmody may have the pedigree as an offensive genius, but we haven't seen that yet.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 16, 2019 13:28:53 GMT -5
Carmody is a good offensive coach....again, it what it is....he can only do so much with who he can recruit. Willard was a great defensive coach...but that only took HC so far as well. I don't think you're being very fair to Willard here. Willard's defense was far, far superior to Carmody's offense. Avg defensive rank under Willard: 69.5 Avg offensive rank under Carmody: 267.25 Carmody may have the pedigree as an offensive genius, but we haven't seen that yet. I wonder how Ralph's D would have fared the last decade. 3 point tries much more prevalent. Maybe would have been as successful, maybe not. I would agree with SOV from the standpoint that getting some less talented kids to play excellent defense is perhaps more doable than getting less talented kids to put the ball in the basket; especially since nowadays lights-out shooters are in higher demand than before (see paragraph #1).
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Post by cmo on Jan 19, 2019 16:26:52 GMT -5
We’re in LAST PLACE in the PATRIOT LEAGUE.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 19, 2019 17:32:53 GMT -5
Where’s teamer? Hoops?
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Post by dadominate on Jan 19, 2019 18:27:25 GMT -5
I’ve been long on Carmody from the very beginning as he is a highly respected coach, but he needs to get this PL season turned around pretty quickly or I might join those who are doubting him. Today’s loss is inexcusable, and we’ve been playing poorly since the onset of PL play after a strong OOC performance. Have to call it like it is and there is really no excuse for anything other than a finish towards the top of the league this year. We can certainly still turn it around, but we are digging a hole that can’t get too much deeper. I will be disappointed and will be the first to admit I was wrong if we don’t, but I still have a feeling that we will get the ship back in order. Needs to happen ASAP.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 19, 2019 19:29:36 GMT -5
Still watching and supporting, not waffling
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 19, 2019 19:30:48 GMT -5
Still watching and supporting, not waffling As am I. Are you concerned about the makeup of the roster and the very poor performance over our last six games? Maybe that’s where we differ.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 19, 2019 19:39:58 GMT -5
Still watching and supporting, not waffling As am I. Are you concerned about the makeup of the roster and the very poor performance over our last six games? Maybe that’s where we differ. 1-yes 2- somewhat
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Post by thecrossisback on Jan 19, 2019 20:50:44 GMT -5
The administration/athletic department has to put more pressure on Carmody. I feel he keeps going every year on easy street. His recruits have had problems, he always loses to teams ranking higher and he always loses 3-4 games to just flat out awful teams.
The Princeton offense has to go. The other players are way to athletic now. When ever they play an athletic team that follows the guys cutting. The offense doesn't work. Nobody is running the Princeton offense.
NO championship this year and no tournament success. Fire him. It will be good to change it up. Get somebody that gives the team some fire and toughness.
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Post by hc87 on Jan 19, 2019 21:01:14 GMT -5
It doesn't mattah who coaches this team.....hardly anyone cares, except for the same 15 people who post here....sorry, in a bad mood tonight but I'm just sick of this PL basketball being relevant tonight....it's just not....and in your heart of hearts, most people here would agree too.
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Post by kot1972 on Jan 19, 2019 21:01:43 GMT -5
Carmody is a good offensive coach....again, it what it is....he can only do so much with who he can recruit. Willard was a great defensive coach...but that only took HC so far as well. We are what we are...a middling (at best) D1 program that can only rise so far given the PL restrictions... You know after awhile your argument becomes tiring. We are not the UCLA of the East and never were. Potter and Perry won a lot but did they ever wIn an NCAA tournament game? I don't remember one Willard was great, won a lot of games, but never won in the NCAA either. I think the City of Worcester and the alumni would come to the games if we had a sustained winning program. Why don't we try to be Bucknell for 10 years before trying to be Villanova.
Bucknell, from my memory, has had 20 years of consistent winning. 3 coaches who recruited all league players, beat top 100 teams, won NCAA Tournament games and drew respectable crowds to their arena. Sounds like a model most on this board would love. I ask what advantage does Bucknell have that is not available to us? I can't figure it out.
I have not posted for a long time because I don't like to knock our players. I root for our team and enjoy the wins as I have for 60 years. But the present state of this team is on all Carmody and the Administration in my opinion. Carmody was the right choice when hired as Milan was way over his head. Carmody is a professional, knows how un a program and recruits solid kids. But let's look at where he is today.
1.Our team is almost undersized at every position . When seeing our team in person, it is like we are boys playing with men. Iona, who stinks, was bigger and more physical than us at every position but Floyd.
2.No wonder we play lousy defense. We have no team speed and don't believe in boxing out. We give away 10 or 20 pounds a man and don't teach help defense. I don't care what the statistics say. Iona had 7 uncontested layups in the first half when I was there and Bucknell, Lehigh and Lafayette have torched us with open threes for 4 years. When playing top 200 teams they either lob or penetrate our defense with ease. Our trick defense 1-3-1 zone is not working and has not for a long time.
3.Our offense is overrated especially when playing a common opponent. If we hit threes, we look great and the backdoors work. Against the Patriot League teams, they play us tight to take away the threes and sag on Floyd. Once those things are done , our offense is dead. How many forced shots do we take in the last 10 seconds?
Carmody, in my eyes, is in the same spot Gilmore was. He has no solutions, is cranky about it, looked lost in Bucknell TV interview and has little he can do to change it. His lack of size, depth and player development is all on him. Except for one lucky shot to take us to the Ncaa's, many would have asked for his head long ago. We need a young coach, 40 years old roughly who won somewhere and can connect with today 18 year olds. A Chesney type.
Last comment on my rant . The Admin has to take most of the blame for the state of Holy Cross BB in 2019 compared to 1980 or even 2008. They are obviously doing something wrong and don't seem to care. Unbelievable, when you consider guys like Perry Sr and Jr, Palazzi, Grayson and Doran are available for input. Especially with the recent upgrades at the Luth Center. Hard to understand.
Let's be Bucknell for awhile. Win championships and upset good teams! That works for me.
Love HC!
KOT 72
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Post by hc87 on Jan 19, 2019 21:05:44 GMT -5
It's not going to happen in the PL....sorry
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Post by hc87 on Jan 19, 2019 21:10:48 GMT -5
Perry Sr and Jr, Doran. Palazzi and Grayson would nevah have played in the PL.....fact
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Post by thecrossisback on Jan 19, 2019 21:11:46 GMT -5
It's not going to happen in the PL....sorry I know, I hate the PL too. But can only move up if we dominate it. That starts with the coach and the players.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 19, 2019 21:13:27 GMT -5
Too*
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