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Post by trimster on Jan 28, 2020 17:37:29 GMT -5
What is going on with this program? Lowder and Hargis gone, Copeland nowhere to be found. That's three scholarship players who are absent from the team. The Nelson pom-pom waivers can say what they want, but this is a terrible look. Not shocking. I believe William and Mary had 3-4 returnees transfer last summer after a new coach came in. On a separate note, is there a limit on how many scholarship players you can have in a class? I suspect the staff will be busy looking at the transfer portal come spring since Verbeek looks like the only jr to be on scholarship for the fall. Bringing in a transfer or two with two years of eligibility left would help to balance the roster.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 28, 2020 17:58:56 GMT -5
Nelson knows that a good chunk of these guys are fringe D1 players, so by running them off the team he is able to bring in his own recruits. While we, no doubt, could use Hargis and Copeland during this trying season, having their scholarships readily available for another recruit or transfer is a good thing. What were Copeland & Hargris’s offers in high school?
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Post by hcnation on Jan 28, 2020 18:01:19 GMT -5
When you’re not playing on a 3 win team , why stick around . I wonder how Verbeek sees his situation .
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 28, 2020 18:09:36 GMT -5
3 win team and you are getting no playing time! The Writing is on the wall !
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 28, 2020 18:17:26 GMT -5
Hargis got a total of 35 minutes as a freshman - he's gotten 400+ minutes as a soph. Copeland was averaging 10 minutes last year - this year, over 20 minutes per this season until he became one of the disappeared. This doesn't seem like an issue of playing time.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 28, 2020 18:19:53 GMT -5
Nelson knows that a good chunk of these guys are fringe D1 players, so by running them off the team he is able to bring in his own recruits. While we, no doubt, could use Hargis and Copeland during this trying season, having their scholarships readily available for another recruit or transfer is a good thing. What were Copeland & Hargris’s offers in high school? Copeland has not permanently left the team In HS he was American’s top recruit
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Post by bison137 on Jan 28, 2020 18:22:29 GMT -5
What is going on with this program? Lowder and Hargis gone, Copeland nowhere to be found. That's three scholarship players who are absent from the team. The Nelson pom-pom waivers can say what they want, but this is a terrible look. Not shocking. I believe William and Mary had 3-4 returnees transfer last summer after a new coach came in. On a separate note, is there a limit on how many scholarship players you can have in a class? I suspect the staff will be busy looking at the transfer portal come spring since Verbeek looks like the only jr to be on scholarship for the fall. Bringing in a transfer or two with two years of eligibility left would help to balance the roster. 1. No limit on the number of scholarships in a given class. 2. Yes, William & Mary had four of their top five players transfer out - and had their top recruit decommit - after Tony Shaver was fired and former Bucknell assistant Dane Fischer was hired. It was a very good group that transferred, and they ended up at North Carolina, Northwestern, UCF, and UMBC. But Fischer has done a great job, and W&M is all alone at the top of the CAA standings - well ahead of where they were last year. Fischer was a finalist for the Bucknell job four years ago, along with Nathan Davis and Jamion Christian. A lot of people thought he should have been hired.
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 28, 2020 18:27:37 GMT -5
How many players vanished from the team when RW took over? Granted they were non schollie, but big turnover
If the team was 18-3, I would push the panic button but 3-18, need new D1 talent in here.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 28, 2020 18:35:53 GMT -5
Jen Toland owes us some investigating and reporting on this issue--what is going on? Is HCBN a complete tyrant, or is he so demanding that some players cannot comply with his demands, or is it something else? If Copeland and Hargris end up at D1 programs at or equal to the level of HC, then the investigation can commence. Until then, this is nothing more than Nelson trying to bring this program back from the ashes. One legit D1 player has left the program (but hasn’t found a landing spot and is apparently still enrolled at HC), one guy transferred to a D3 school, and two guys who could not earn consistent playing time on a 3-18 program just left. If the Martindale, Bubba H, and Rabinovich are as good as they appear on paper, they likely would have gone right by Hargris and Copeland next year anyway.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 28, 2020 18:37:16 GMT -5
Hargis minutes have dipped considerably over the past few weeks.
We don't know what Nelson has said to these players, all we know is how much many minutes he decides to give them during a game. At 3-18 and with a very short bench to begin with, it's pretty telling that Hargis hasn't been able to get off the bench much recently.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 28, 2020 18:41:18 GMT -5
Copeland has not permanently left the team In HS he was American’s top recruit Sam Iorio would be in the running for that title as well. He got an offer from American at the same time as Copeland and had a lot more offers at that time than did Copeland.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 28, 2020 19:06:49 GMT -5
Jen Toland owes us some investigating and reporting on this issue--what is going on? Is HCBN a complete tyrant, or is he so demanding that some players cannot comply with his demands, or is it something else? If Copeland and Hargris end up at D1 programs at or equal to the level of HC, then the investigation can commence. Until then, this is nothing more than Nelson trying to bring this program back from the ashes. One legit D1 player has left the program (but hasn’t found a landing spot and is apparently still enrolled at HC), one guy transferred to a D3 school, and two guys who could not earn consistent playing time on a 3-18 program just left. If the Martindale, Bubba H, and Rabinovich are as good as they appear on paper, they likely would have gone right by Hargris and Copeland next year anyway. Who's the extra guy- Druzi, Lovisolo, Hargis and who? Nothing official about Copeland; are you counting him as gone? Just asking.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 28, 2020 19:13:46 GMT -5
Nelson knows that a good chunk of these guys are fringe D1 players, so by running them off the team he is able to bring in his own recruits. While we, no doubt, could use Hargis and Copeland during this trying season, having their scholarships readily available for another recruit or transfer is a good thing. What were Copeland & Hargris’s offers in high school? Sadly, it doesn’t really matter, as Copeland never panned out and Hargis hasn’t cracked the lineup of a decidedly weak team.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 28, 2020 19:48:59 GMT -5
Copeland, who the heck knows what's going on there? Bottom line: you can't make the club from the tub. And, sadly, it doesn't seem like anything specific, not like Marcellus Perkins (who made the best he could of the situation by excelling in many other pursuits).
Hargis was the 7th man on a team where the staff felt they could only play 7 and his minutes were going DOWN. Says a lot.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 28, 2020 19:56:20 GMT -5
Will Hart or Sandy get in a game?
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Post by timholycross on Jan 28, 2020 20:58:51 GMT -5
Will Hart or Sandy get in a game? One way or another, I would think the "next man up" would be Verbeek or Reilly, or both. And Yuetter got minutes in a couple games too.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 28, 2020 21:06:17 GMT -5
Yeutter actually started 4 or 5 games. Is he still injured?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 28, 2020 21:16:55 GMT -5
Just my .02, but I think Nelson is observing each player on the roster with this mindset — “Would I have offered this guy a scholarship?”
He knew this year would be a wash record wise, so it’s about getting us in the best possible position for 2020-21, both from a culture and personnel standpoint. If you’re not buying in, you’re out.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 28, 2020 21:44:42 GMT -5
People wondered about so many players getting time early in the year. It was speculated then that game time was based on two factors (1) performance in practice and (2) giving each player a chance to show what he could do in a game. When the coach cut back to a short bench and depended on those players IMO it was for the same two factors.
I have been connected to enough programs that I am familiar with the typical "private" talk with a new coach and a player where he is told that "unless ____ happens, it is unlikely you will see much playing time from here on." The blank can be a number of things. It can seem harsh, but it does give the player a reality check and a chance to decide what he wants to do. Those who talk about difficult recruiting need to take a look at the quality off the people being offered and those accepting scholarships for next year and beyond. IMO, the quality does seem to be improving. Only time will tell.
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Post by Tom on Jan 28, 2020 22:05:42 GMT -5
Yeutter actually started 4 or 5 games. Is he still injured? Yes. Always on bench in a boot
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 28, 2020 22:11:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure I can answer that question, Rob, as a "waiver" is a legal term so waiving a pom-pom would essentially mean not using the pom-poms but I would say that a pom-pom waver is better than that alternative you mentioned. Just one person's opinion.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 28, 2020 22:11:58 GMT -5
Copeland has not permanently left the team In HS he was American’s top recruit Sam Iorio would be in the running for that title as well. He got an offer from American at the same time as Copeland and had a lot more offers at that time than did Copeland. Thanks, hoops & bison. Having seen both play in college, I find it very hard to believe that a staff would want Copeland over Iorio IMHO FWIW.
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Post by Tom on Jan 28, 2020 22:22:11 GMT -5
Hargis is gone. We can speculate why. Did Coach Nelson run him off the team? Was he unhappy with the new style of basketball that he wasn't recruited for? Was he unhappy with playing time especially since the current lineup wasn't winning? All speculation. We don't know why, but hey speculating is what message boards do.
Kyle Copeland is still part of the program. He has taken an indefinite leave of absence for personal reasons, I seem to recall a similar situation not that long ago where the player came back and contributed. I am in no way implying that Copeland is out for the same reason and have no clue why he is out. However, I do think we should cut the kid some slack and at the very least not lump him in with guys who quit the program
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Post by HC92 on Jan 28, 2020 22:36:04 GMT -5
Here’s what next year’s roster looks like at the moment. Two more open scholarships left if we are right about who is on scholarship now.
Fr 2024 - Johnson, Martindale, Rabinovich, Humphrey So 2023 - Wade, Pridgen, Yeutter**, Reilly** Jr 2022 - Verbeek Sr 2021 - Butler, Copeland*, Faw, Niego*
*Redshirt Potential *Presumed Walk-ons who can contribute; Sandy and Hart also on the roster but neither has seen any real time this year so not sure if they ever will
I think the proper balance of becoming competitive as quickly as possible and not letting the class balance get too far out of whack would be to add one more to the Class of 2024 if we can get someone we really like and also add a transfer over the summer who has two years left. For scholarships, that would give us 5 frosh, 3 sophs, 1 junior and 4 seniors. If one of Niego or Copeland gets a redshirt, that would give us 5, 3, 2, 3. I do believe Copeland will return next season.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 28, 2020 23:15:40 GMT -5
I might be off on the years, but here goes
2018 No Seniors (Mitch Haan, only guy, left) 2020 One Senior (CLS) 2022 One Senior (Verbeek)
That's a pretty sad situation.
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