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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 29, 2020 5:44:37 GMT -5
MH looked promising earlier in the year but right now he looks lost and is playing with no confidence. Too bad because there are minutes to be had for those who earn the coach's trust. I fear that with the incoming players he'll have a tough time carving out a role next year. The difference, at least statistically, between Marlon's early season games and his play of late is astounding. Through the Mercer game he was posting excellent offensive numbers:
168 minutes played 15-21 on twos = .714 12-25 on threes= .480 13-15 on free throws= .867 79 points= 18.8 points per 40 minutes 22 rebounds= 5.2/40 minutes 9 assists= 2.1/40 12 turnovers= 2.9/40 3 blocks 6 steals 22 personal fouls= 5.2/40 8 of 9 games with an "O-Rating" over 100
Since the Mercer game
249 minutes played 15-35 on twos= .429 1-23 on threes = .043 13-15 on Free throws no change there 46 points=7.4 points per 40 minutes 30 rebounds= 4.8/40 12 assists= 1.9/40 24 turnovers= 3.9/40 2 blocks 2 steals 30 personal fouls= 4.8/40 10 of 10 games with an O-Rating were below 100 This is interesting. I'm wondering - if the stats were flip flopped, and he was coming on right now (kinda like Matt Faw's season), would people still have the "don't let the door hit you" attitude that seems to be the consensus right now with MH's departure?
The perception is not too positive right now with the departures. But what else do we really know with any certainty? How do we know this didn't take the coaches by surprise, and they are upset that he is leaving? Perhaps not, but how do we know the coach is 100% right in everything he does?
I am still very supportive of CBN right now, and I like the style of play, but I don't know yet that he is an A+ teacher in regards to the "soft skills" that are needed to be a head coach. To me it remains to be seen. For all we know he could be kicking himself over this latest development; we don't know. At any rate, it's now on him to bring in a replacement. It's just a little frustrating to be facing yet another season without a full roster.
I wish I had the same confidence that some of you have to conclude a kid can't play during what is essentially his redshirt freshman season (as with BV). Maybe he was a kid that could have benefitted from a post grad year at a prep. I saw a kid with length, agility and ball skills, that seemed to be really struggling with confidence (just Saturday after a missed 3 CBN yelled "Shoot Marlon!" as he ran up court). Joe O'Shea hardly played in the first half of his frosh year, and not too many were upset with his leaving (outside of those who were on Milan's case from the get go). He carved out a pretty decent career at Bryant. Wish Marlon well and hope he does the same.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 29, 2020 7:55:38 GMT -5
The difference, at least statistically, between Marlon's early season games and his play of late is astounding. Through the Mercer game he was posting excellent offensive numbers:
168 minutes played 15-21 on twos = .714 12-25 on threes= .480 13-15 on free throws= .867 79 points= 18.8 points per 40 minutes 22 rebounds= 5.2/40 minutes 9 assists= 2.1/40 12 turnovers= 2.9/40 3 blocks 6 steals 22 personal fouls= 5.2/40 8 of 9 games with an "O-Rating" over 100
Since the Mercer game
249 minutes played 15-35 on twos= .429 1-23 on threes = .043 13-15 on Free throws no change there 46 points=7.4 points per 40 minutes 30 rebounds= 4.8/40 12 assists= 1.9/40 24 turnovers= 3.9/40 2 blocks 2 steals 30 personal fouls= 4.8/40 10 of 10 games with an O-Rating were below 100 This is interesting. I'm wondering - if the stats were flip flopped, and he was coming on right now (kinda like Matt Faw's season), would people still have the "don't let the door hit you" attitude that seems to be the consensus right now with MH's departure?
The perception is not too positive right now with the departures. But what else do we really know with any certainty? How do we know this didn't take the coaches by surprise, and they are upset that he is leaving? Perhaps not, but how do we know the coach is 100% right in everything he does?
I am still very supportive of CBN right now, and I like the style of play, but I don't know yet that he is an A+ teacher in regards to the "soft skills" that are needed to be a head coach. To me it remains to be seen. For all we know he could be kicking himself over this latest development; we don't know. At any rate, it's now on him to bring in a replacement. It's just a little frustrating to be facing yet another season without a full roster.
I wish I had the same confidence that some of you have to conclude a kid can't play during what is essentially his redshirt freshman season (as with BV). Maybe he was a kid that could have benefitted from a post grad year at a prep. I saw a kid with length, agility and ball skills, that seemed to be really struggling with confidence (just Saturday after a missed 3 CBN yelled "Shoot Marlon!" as he ran up court). Joe O'Shea hardly played in the first half of his frosh year, and not too many were upset with his leaving (outside of those who were on Milan's case from the get go). He carved out a pretty decent career at Bryant. Wish Marlon well and hope he does the same.
Since every player is different, has his own pace of development, and responds to situations based on his /her previous experiences a coach/manager needs to understand what buttons to push to make the player the best he/she can be. I do support one set of rules for a team and future needs to be embraced by all. With that said certain individuals need to be taught and developed with a different approach. Treat everybody with the same set of demands, but understand how to approach each player in a way they grow and make the team better. At a Cancer Roundtable board dinner with Coach K a couple of years ago, following the Duke loss to Lehigh, we talked about hoops and business. He suggested it is not easy for a first time coach/manager to recognize this need and it might take a year or two for him to grow into the new role. Whether this is happening today I have no idea, but that perspective should be kept in mind as we watch the development of the team and staff.
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Post by trimster on Jan 29, 2020 8:06:46 GMT -5
A full 13 scholarship roster is nice but imho, not a great necessity. Unless you are a team with basically a lineup a and b, probably 3-4 players aren’t going to see a lot of pt. Of course injuries would be a greater concern with a smaller roster of scholarship players. Speaking of this, wasn’t there a move to reduce the number of scholarships on the men’s side by at least one, a number of years ago. I seem to remember John Thompson getting his hackles up about depriving 350 kids across the country of a Free education.
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Post by Tom on Jan 29, 2020 8:47:52 GMT -5
I might be off on the years, but here goes 2018 No Seniors (Mitch Haan, only guy, left) 2020 One Senior (CLS) 2022 One Senior (Verbeek) That's a pretty sad situation. I've been whining about the big class/small class for a while. A bit of perspective about part of the start 2014 one senior (Dudzinski (Carver injured never played again, O'Shea transferred to play for his uncle) I think that was the beginning of the unbalance
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 29, 2020 9:04:49 GMT -5
I'm not sure I can answer that question, Rob, as a "waiver" is a legal term so waiving a pom-pom would essentially mean not using the pom-poms but I would say that a pom-pom waver is better than that alternative you mentioned. Just one person's opinion. I can thank spell check for that one. One of my spellcheck favorites is still Hillhold, CT. We used to have reenactments (drill) on a 19th century farm museum's property there. Spell check regularly changed "Hillhold" to "Hell Hole" - the site did not appreciate that popping up in my email.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 29, 2020 9:13:05 GMT -5
I knew that!😊 I long ago stopped using the term “spell check” or “autocorrect” and call it “autoincorrect.”
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Post by cfrivals on Jan 29, 2020 9:21:28 GMT -5
Well, let’s look at what has happened over the last 12 years. 5 coaches, 5 different philosophies. Players recruited by a former coach no longer employed. Some adapt, some don’t
It’s like a new boss coming into a job from another company. He has a style, some may work with and some not.
I am not hailing Nelson as the next coach K, but he wants a much different style of player than what is here. Do we just fire him and go thru this again and again and again!!
This is the thinnest roster I have ever seen, he can use that this year, but next year it’s on his watch.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 29, 2020 9:22:43 GMT -5
With the advent of massive transferring everywhere, inc HC, coaches have to worry less about class balance and be more concerned than ever about having 13 available bodies each year
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 29, 2020 9:32:51 GMT -5
2014 one senior (Dudzinski (Carver injured never played again, O'Shea transferred to play for his uncle) I think that was the beginning of the unbalance A couple other complicating factors that affected the scholarship rosters over the last several seasons. Eric Green missed his entire freshman season (2012-13), Marcellis Perkins missed three seasons, Christopher Morgan missed his senior year, And, most significantly, Riley Criswell was on scholarship for four years, even though he couldn't play at all (whatever its effect on roster strength, that decision said all the right things about Milan Brown and Holy Cross, imho).
From 2010-11 through 2014-15, we didn't have more than 11 or 12 scholarship players who could actually perform in any given year.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 29, 2020 9:38:45 GMT -5
Just to dwell briefly on a more pleasant memory . . . Eric Green started only six games his senior year - it was the best six game stretch of the last decade for Holy Cross basketball.
Thanks, EG.
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Post by Ray on Jan 29, 2020 9:49:45 GMT -5
2014 one senior (Dudzinski (Carver injured never played again, O'Shea transferred to play for his uncle) I think that was the beginning of the unbalance A couple other complicating factors that affected the scholarship rosters over the last several seasons. Eric Green missed his entire freshman season (2012-13), Marcellis Perkins missed three seasons, Christopher Morgan missed his senior year, And, most significantly, Riley Criswell was on scholarship for four years, even though he couldn't play at all (whatever its effect on roster strength, that decision said all the right things about Milan Brown and Holy Cross, imho).
From 2010-11 through 2014-15, we didn't have more than 11 or 12 scholarship players who could actually perform in any given year.
I think we've been through this a bunch of times. Criswell was on scholarship for four years, but once his career was deemed over, he didn't count against the 13-scholarship limit. We were not shorthanded because of that injury.
Just to take it back even further, I think the classes on this team have been pretty unbalanced since Mike Cavataio transferred in.
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Post by possum on Jan 29, 2020 10:05:20 GMT -5
The biggest problem has been the quality of the recruits, we just have not brought in enough good players to be successful. Pridgen is the first player in recent memory who you can look at as a freshman and say that's going to be an all league player.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 29, 2020 10:14:11 GMT -5
With the advent of massive transferring everywhere, inc HC, coaches have to worry less about class balance and be more concerned than ever about having 13 available bodies each year How about we try and use the transferring to our advantage and go after a couple guys this year like Colgate has been doing while we've been sitting on the sidelines watching?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 29, 2020 10:17:56 GMT -5
Well, let’s look at what has happened over the last 12 years. 5 coaches, 5 different philosophies. Players recruited by a former coach no longer employed. Some adapt, some don’t It’s like a new boss coming into a job from another company. He has a style, some may work with and some not. I am not hailing Nelson as the next coach K, but he wants a much different style of player than what is here. Do we just fire him and go thru this again and again and again!! This is the thinnest roster I have ever seen, he can use that this year, but next year it’s on his watch. To take your new boss example a bit further, this new boss was essentially coming into a company that was bankrupt -- last place in the PL last year, top 3 players gone, .443 winning percentage the previous 4 years, .389 PL winning percentage the previous 4 years. This was not a program that just needed a few tweaks and would be ready to go, we needed a total gut renovation and rebuild from scratch. Nelson has been successful at establishing himself as the new leader of the program and beginning to implement his culture. Now it's up to him to turn his leadership and culture into improvement on the court and Ws over the next 2-3 years.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 29, 2020 10:46:53 GMT -5
With the advent of massive transferring everywhere, inc HC, coaches have to worry less about class balance and be more concerned than ever about having 13 available bodies each year Massive at many schools, but certainly not everywhere.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 29, 2020 11:14:07 GMT -5
With the advent of massive transferring everywhere, inc HC, coaches have to worry less about class balance and be more concerned than ever about having 13 available bodies each year Good point. And to that end, let’s make sure everyone remains in good standing and eligible.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 29, 2020 11:16:14 GMT -5
With the advent of massive transferring everywhere, inc HC, coaches have to worry less about class balance and be more concerned than ever about having 13 available bodies each year How about we try and use the transferring to our advantage and go after a couple guys this year like Colgate has been doing while we've been sitting on the sidelines watching? A great point. I’ve opined that Langel knew he wasn’t going to be able to recruit the kinds of kids needed out of high school in order to be successful, so he went the transfer route instead.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 29, 2020 12:51:15 GMT -5
The biggest problem has been the quality of the recruits, we just have not brought in enough good players to be successful. Pridgen is the first player in recent memory who you can look at as a freshman and say that's going to be an all league player. I think you could have said that about Lowder after game one. That was the date when he became more Nelson's player than Carmody's recruit. At least that's one way of looking at it. Nelson certainly has made all player personnel decisions since he arrived.
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Post by hc17 on Jan 29, 2020 13:41:49 GMT -5
Looks like we're still recruiting...
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 29, 2020 13:57:37 GMT -5
6-7 215 per MaxPreps
Averaging 13 points and 10 rebounds per game. 70% free throw shooter
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 29, 2020 13:58:57 GMT -5
If somebody 6-8 can be considered "under the radar," he might be it. Quick search turns up little - no NERR ranking or news. Still, NMH is NMH . . .
May try to watch him next week at Cushing.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 29, 2020 14:47:42 GMT -5
If somebody 6-8 can be considered "under the radar," he might be it. Quick search turns up little - no NERR ranking or news. Still, NMH is NMH . . . May try to watch him next week at Cushing. If the current situation around the HC roster could not get more bizarre (unknown # of schollie players, 3 guys leaving the team, 1 guy disappearing, etc.), based on some quick research, I believe his name may have changed from Moses Ngodock to Prince Moses at some point this season. Moses Ngodockwww.latest.facebook.com/NMHbasketball/photos/a.103557304032/10156759362649033/?type=3&theaterwww.facebook.com/NMHbasketball/photos/a.103557304032/10156604243139033/?type=1&theaterwww.verbalcommits.com/players/moses-ngodockPrince Moseswww.latest.facebook.com/NMHbasketball/photos/a.103557304032/10156921965874033/?type=3&theater------------------------ NERR: newenglandrecruitingreport.com/in-the-news/19-zg-classic-day-2-recapMoses Ngodock, NMH, 2020 – The 6’8” center from Louisiana stuck his claim on NMH’s win early on today, wreaking havoc on the offensive glass and grabbing everything in sight on defense. Ngodock continued his strong effort into the second half and was rewarded for his activity with 16 points on the afternoon. NERR: National Prep Showcase (11/29/19) newenglandrecruitingreport.com/in-the-news/2019-nps-final-thoughts1. Best unsigned 2020’sThere were a couple that might not be going to college at all, but if they do both IMG’s Kenyon Martin Jr. and TSF’s Kai Sotto will have their choice of high-major suitors at this point. Others who undoubtedly moved the high-major needle include Hargrave’s Mark Sears, Mt. Zion’s David N’Guessan, IMG’s Darius Miles, and Sunrise’s Tyrin Lawrence. Scotland’s Jayson Woodrich was the best unsigned shooter in the event while Tilton’s Jalen Leach and Putnam’s Marty Silvera also stood out in that area. NMH’s Moses Ngodock and Massanutten’s Touba Traore were among the most active and rugged available big men in the field. New Hampton’s Jahmyl Telford, Woodstock’s Ronnie DeGray and Massanutten Tyson Brown were two forwards who moved the needle. IMG’s Noah Hutchins and Scotland’s Jaeden Zackery showed off the recent improvements in their games as did a handful of other guards fighting for a D1 offer including Bridgton’s Bryson Andrews, STM’s Jair Currie, NMH’s Darius Ervin, and Tilton’s Kevin Constant. Fork Union’s Shaunta Wilson did the same on the wing. BBC: I'll take Exactly What This Program Needs for $200, Alex.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 29, 2020 14:51:08 GMT -5
Speaking of the roster, I found this pretty remarkable --
Bill Carmody brought in 16 scholarship players during his time at HC, only eight of them will have played or on track to play four years of basketball:
DNP: Karl Charles, Jack Stevens, Tyrone Cohen, Caleb Green, Kyle Copeland, Jacob Grandison, Marlon Hargis, Drew Lowder.
Props to Clayton Le Saan for holding his recruiting class down. Last man standing.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 29, 2020 15:11:12 GMT -5
from a game in November chick gillespieFor NMH in their win 6'8" '20 Moses Ngodock had 16pts 12reb 4stls
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 29, 2020 15:19:35 GMT -5
Speaking of the roster, I found this pretty remarkable -- Bill Carmody brought in 16 scholarship players during his time at HC, only eight of them will have played or on track to play four years of basketball: DNP: Karl Charles, Jack Stevens, Tyrone Cohen, Caleb Green, Kyle Copeland, Jacob Grandison, Marlon Hargis, Drew Lowder. Props to Clayton Le Saan for holding his recruiting class down. Last man standing. I am not sure why you found something "remarkable" that has been posted here in one form or another over and over.
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