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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 9, 2020 20:25:09 GMT -5
Sorry Tom - but Nelson is not getting a 4 yr pass until his 5th season from me, and likely most others here as well.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 9, 2020 20:50:04 GMT -5
OK, I need to quote myself and prove to be a prophet. So, I am either a dope or Brett Nelson has been reading Crossports. The former, I concede, the latter, I strongly suspect. I just got this: Lent can't get here fast enough for me. I think I'll start my hiatus early for everyone's benefit. Your requested response date was Easter Monday and you got your report in before Ash Wednesday.😊 Thank You. Enjoy your hiatus!
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 9, 2020 21:05:12 GMT -5
I thought about Coach Nelson recently because I remembered a speech at the Hogan Ballroom by the late Paul Tsongas after he retired from the Senate due to cancer. A student asked him a question about his position on social policies and he said "Everybody's in, Nobody's out."
I like that approach to team building.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 10, 2020 6:20:02 GMT -5
I think the categorization of this season as an epic failure does not automatically mean progress is not being made. So, yes, I am in a sense channeling my inner Moe Howard and claiming the holes are getting smaller (I soitenly always give a thumbs up to a 3 Stooges reference, nyuck nyuck nyuck). I am not bright enough to understand all the advanced metrics many of you toss around here. I base my opinion on the answer to a simple question I threw at myself: if this same team (with 7 scholly guys) had to play BU and Colgate back on 10/1/19 (when the coaches also knew a lot less about the players they inherited), would the outcomes have been the same as they are now? I'm thinking not; I'm thinking they would have been more likely to have been start to finish blow outs. Now, if I use this same line of thinking a year from now, then Moe should come back from the grave and tear my tonsils out.
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Post by dadominate on Feb 10, 2020 7:46:18 GMT -5
Sorry Tom - but Nelson is not getting a 4 yr pass until his 5th season from me, and likely most others here as well. agree, actp. there is no free pass whatsoever in division 1 basketball. a coach is evaluated in how he manages a program, gets the most out of his current personnel, and brings in new personnel from day 1 on the job. a full judgment obviously varies from situation to situation, but nobody gets a 4 year free pass in a basketball program that has expectations of success. given some of our roster limitations, i would say a poor record this year was certainly understandable/to be expected (though no free pass regarding roster management and player development) and a relatively poor record next year, as well. if nelson is not winning by the end of year 3, his seat will be getting warm if we have any expectations left as a once competitive program. nelson appears to have a strong class for 2020 and by the end of their sophomore years and pridgen and wade's junior years, we should be competing for the pl title.
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Post by Tom on Feb 10, 2020 9:10:09 GMT -5
Sorry Tom - but Nelson is not getting a 4 yr pass until his 5th season from me, and likely most others here as well. My passes are kind of fluid and can come and go. My passes are never free. I was giving Coach Nelson a pass on the record this year from the beginning. The departures of two players plus the extended absence of a third has made the wins even tougher to come by. The pass wasn't totally free, because I expect progress. I can swallow a horrible record this year if the program is moving in the right direction. I think back to the Coach Brown years. For three years they were a middle of the pack team that got bounced in the first round of the PL tournament. Finally by year 4 dividends started to show up. I wish they had come sooner, but at least the needle was moving with 20 wins and a quarterfinal win in the tournament. With only one senior on the team (although a darn good one) things finally started to look bright. Year 5 would absolutely have HC at the top of the league. Then the following year was a big step backwards and all bets were off. A program at the top will have ups and downs. A rebuilding program can't be taking steps backward Come year 4 of the Nelson era , I sincerely hope this team is realistically challenging for a league title. If they are not, but have improved every year, I won't necessarily be screaming for the coach's head either. I might be - it depends on how optimistic I feel about the future. Hopefully Coach Nelson can bring a Chesneyesque championship ahead of schedule and no one will ever know how patient I can be with passes
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Post by trimster on Feb 10, 2020 9:23:54 GMT -5
Let me say I feel we are lucky to have landed a coach with Coach Nelson’s resume. My hope is he sticks around for a while after what I feel will be be a very successful rebuild of the program.
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Post by possum on Feb 10, 2020 9:31:13 GMT -5
I think I've seen improvement in some players over the course of the year in particular Faw and Niego. Although I think both may be better suited as reserves on a good team they both have become much more physical players over the course of the season. Pridgen has been a pleasant surprise and is certainly a piece to build around going forward. Hopefully Wade will improve but I'm not as sold on him as many others seem to be. Butler will continue to be a solid player for another season. Verbeek I think has or will be recruited over. Going forward I think we need at least two of the 4 or more incoming freshmen to be impact players. I think Martindale can be that type player and by default Johnson will have that chance. At worst Rabinovich should be a decent backup big next year and hopefully Humphrey will be vying for big minutes. Next year we should be looking for double digit wins trending toward a .500 record. In year 3 after another recruiting class we should be trending toward the top tier of the league and by year 4 we should be competing for the title.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2020 10:09:15 GMT -5
Sorry Tom - but Nelson is not getting a 4 yr pass until his 5th season from me, and likely most others here as well. agree, actp. there is no free pass whatsoever in division 1 basketball. a coach is evaluated in how he manages a program, gets the most out of his current personnel, and brings in new personnel from day 1 on the job. a full judgment obviously varies from situation to situation, but nobody gets a 4 year free pass in a basketball program that has expectations of success. given some of our roster limitations, i would say a poor record this year was certainly understandable/to be expected (though no free pass regarding roster management and player development) and a relatively poor record next year, as well. if nelson is not winning by the end of year 3, his seat will be getting warm if we have any expectations left as a once competitive program. nelson appears to have a strong class for 2020 and by the end of their sophomore years and pridgen and wade's junior years, we should be competing for the pl title. Re: roster management and player development, what's your grade? Several players have left the program who were highly unlikely to ever be strong contributors (+) Nelson' first class includes tremendous positional balance -- point guard, scoring wing, athletic wing, big -- which was much needed for a program that hasn't been balanced for years (+) Pridgen has continued to develop into the PL ROY and potentially an all-league player as a frosh (+) Faw has shown signs of being able to play in the paint after spending his first two years camping out around the 3 point line, is shooting 57.5% on 2FGs, and has improved his rebounding numbers (+) Lowder transferred out (-) but he did not appear to be a fit in the culture Nelson is developing and has yet to land anywhere (?*) (*As it relates to Nelson, the true grade on Lowder leaving is based on how he's replaced and how successful Nelson is with his new culture)
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Post by trimster on Feb 10, 2020 10:23:48 GMT -5
agree, actp. there is no free pass whatsoever in division 1 basketball. a coach is evaluated in how he manages a program, gets the most out of his current personnel, and brings in new personnel from day 1 on the job. a full judgment obviously varies from situation to situation, but nobody gets a 4 year free pass in a basketball program that has expectations of success. given some of our roster limitations, i would say a poor record this year was certainly understandable/to be expected (though no free pass regarding roster management and player development) and a relatively poor record next year, as well. if nelson is not winning by the end of year 3, his seat will be getting warm if we have any expectations left as a once competitive program. nelson appears to have a strong class for 2020 and by the end of their sophomore years and pridgen and wade's junior years, we should be competing for the pl title. Re: roster management and player development, what's your grade? Several players have left the program who were highly unlikely to ever be strong contributors (+) Nelson' first class includes tremendous positional balance -- point guard, scoring wing, athletic wing, big -- which was much needed for a program that hasn't been balanced for years (+) Pridgen has continued to develop into the PL ROY and potentially an all-league player as a frosh (+) Faw has shown signs of being able to play in the paint after spending his first two years camping out around the 3 point line, is shooting 57.5% on 2FGs, and has improved his rebounding numbers (+) Lowder transferred out (-) but he did not appear to be a fit in the culture Nelson is developing and has yet to land anywhere (?*) (*As it relates to Nelson, the true grade on Lowder leaving is based on how he's replaced and how successful Nelson is with his new culture)Speaking of Lowder, wouldn't it be interesting if by May, he had really come to like being a student at HC, wasn't particularly impressed with his transfer options and went to Coach Nelson with hat in hand asking to be reinstated. I usually don't speculate but I find that scenario to be particularly intriguing. It is pure speculation by the way.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 10, 2020 10:28:03 GMT -5
Speaking of Lowder, wouldn't it be interesting if by May, he had really come to like being a student at HC, wasn't particularly impressed with his transfer options and went to Coach Nelson with hat in hand asking to be reinstated. I usually don't speculate but I find that scenario to be particularly intriguing. If that happens, I expect and hope that Nelson's response would be, "Good-bye and good luck." Full stop.
Let's move on - welcome, RJ!.
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Post by trimster on Feb 10, 2020 10:41:16 GMT -5
Speaking of Lowder, wouldn't it be interesting if by May, he had really come to like being a student at HC, wasn't particularly impressed with his transfer options and went to Coach Nelson with hat in hand asking to be reinstated. I usually don't speculate but I find that scenario to be particularly intriguing. If that happens, I expect and hope that Nelson's response would be, "Good-bye and good luck." Full stop.
Let's move on - welcome, RJ!.
Whatever happens will be somewhat interesting to see how it plays out.
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Post by Tom on Feb 10, 2020 12:05:40 GMT -5
Speaking of Lowder, wouldn't it be interesting if by May, he had really come to like being a student at HC, wasn't particularly impressed with his transfer options and went to Coach Nelson with hat in hand asking to be reinstated. I usually don't speculate but I find that scenario to be particularly intriguing. It is pure speculation by the way. Thinking there are 12 committed for next year and a handful of offers still pending, unless all the pending guys say "no, thank you" the only potential scenario would be "sorry, there's no room in the inn"
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 10, 2020 13:04:26 GMT -5
Speaking of Lowder, wouldn't it be interesting if by May, he had really come to like being a student at HC, wasn't particularly impressed with his transfer options and went to Coach Nelson with hat in hand asking to be reinstated. I usually don't speculate but I find that scenario to be particularly intriguing. It is pure speculation by the way. Thinking there are 12 committed for next year and a handful of offers still pending, unless all the pending guys say "no, thank you" the only potential scenario would be "sorry, there's no room in the inn" That's why I say: Why wait until May? What's wrong with Nelson using coaching skills to recruit Lowder and Copeland back onto the team now to join the improving seven man rotation and make a run in the PLT? If Lowder lights it up that is only going to improve his transfer options and if there is no room at the inn that makes for a smooth departure after the game in Dayton Rodney King said it best: "Can't we all just get along?"
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 10, 2020 13:37:56 GMT -5
I think something had to be really wrong for a player to leave the team and stay in school. I don’t see Lowder coming back. Copeland, on the other hand, is a total mystery to me.
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Post by classof83 on Feb 10, 2020 13:58:45 GMT -5
I think something had to be really wrong for a player to leave the team and stay in school. I don’t see Lowder coming back. Copeland, on the other hand, is a total mystery to me. Not only to stay in school, but as I understand it, get no eligibility back for this semester. And besides, it would seem - pay for the semester. If you were planning on transferring, why wouldn't you just play out the year and take the time to better gauge your options.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 10, 2020 14:22:20 GMT -5
The situation may be ripe for a skilled recruiter to build his team back to a nine man rotation for the tournament. I can't imagine this has turned into the Hatfields and the McCoys with both students still in school as far as we know.
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Post by classof83 on Feb 10, 2020 14:44:54 GMT -5
As I recall RW had a player leave the team. The reason given was that he wanted to work on his grades so he could apply to law(?) school. The player was not a starter, but provided some depth. I can't remember the player's name, but when the team suffered some injuries RW asked the kid to come back on a temporary basis until some of the injured players could return. He probably needed him for practices more than anything else. Although the circumstances seem different, it has happened before where a player left the team after the start of the season and then came back.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 10, 2020 15:13:14 GMT -5
lowder did not leave the team under favorable circumstances
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Post by trimster on Feb 10, 2020 15:13:19 GMT -5
The situation may be ripe for a skilled recruiter to build his team back to a nine man rotation for the tournament. I can't imagine this has turned into the Hatfields and the McCoys with both students still in school as far as we know. I know I read somewhere, under the transfer portal system, if your name is entered in the portal between semesters, you remain on scholarship for the following semester.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 10, 2020 15:27:39 GMT -5
This cult-like infatuation with Lowder that a couple posters continue to have is a little over the top. It's like the geeky high school kid with a crush on the Homecoming Queen - she lets him take her for a couple foodie calls, then dumps him, and he spends the rest of his days trying to figure out how to get her back, if only for one dance at the prom. Sheesh.
Don't care about Ws and Ls the rest of this year, and we've got a promising new PG on the way for next. Time to look forward.
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Post by dadominate on Feb 10, 2020 15:28:26 GMT -5
As I recall RW had a player leave the team. The reason given was that he wanted to work on his grades so he could apply to law(?) school. The player was not a starter, but provided some depth. I can't remember the player's name, but when the team suffered some injuries RW asked the kid to come back on a temporary basis until some of the injured players could return. He probably needed him for practices more than anything else. Although the circumstances seem different, it has happened before where a player left the team after the start of the season and then came back. you're thinking about james stowers. while i don't know all of the details of the lowder situation, i do know the full story with what happened with stowers as he was a teammate. feinstein's book was mostly accurate in its description and stowers is now a practicing attorney. he was also not a good fit with rw, which isn't really mentioned in the book iirc. although he was nowhere near as talented as lowder and his departure did not create the chasm at a position and did not bury the 99-00 season, which showed promise of what was to come under rw despite all the injuries and short bench. in brief, despite leaving the team, rw asked stowers to come back in a short-handed game against uab, stowers agreed to do so, and he lit it up. he scored double digits in a surprising win against a conference usa team. i don't believe he played again. it was a pretty remarkable story. nelson rolled the dice benching lowder with no other point guard on the roster (it would take unusual humility for any person to be okay with that, especially a confident d1 player like lowder who had been playing well), and it basically cost us any chance of being a threat in the pl this year. my guess is that the ship has unfortunately sailed. i would agree that we are best served to move on and hope that rj johnson can be an immediate impact player next year. he seems to have that potential.
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Post by possum on Feb 10, 2020 15:49:31 GMT -5
We were 1-10 with Lowder, not a threat in the PL with or without him. Time to move on wish him well and hope Johnson is the answer next year.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 10, 2020 15:50:02 GMT -5
I don’t see Lowder coming back. Copeland, on the other hand, is a total mystery to me. Unlike the other one, Copeland merits some concern. Nelson has made it clear that he is on the team, so whether the "personal reasons" for his absence have to do with health, academics, or something else, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, even if he comes back this year or next, he probably won't see much playing time.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2020 15:51:14 GMT -5
As I recall RW had a player leave the team. The reason given was that he wanted to work on his grades so he could apply to law(?) school. The player was not a starter, but provided some depth. I can't remember the player's name, but when the team suffered some injuries RW asked the kid to come back on a temporary basis until some of the injured players could return. He probably needed him for practices more than anything else. Although the circumstances seem different, it has happened before where a player left the team after the start of the season and then came back. you're thinking about james stowers. while i don't know all of the details of the lowder situation, i do know the full story with what happened with stowers as he was a teammate. feinstein's book was mostly accurate in its description and stowers is now a practicing attorney. he was also not a good fit with rw, which isn't really mentioned in the book iirc. although he was nowhere near as talented as lowder and his departure did not create the chasm at a position and did not bury the 99-00 season, which showed promise of what was to come under rw despite all the injuries and short bench. in brief, despite leaving the team, rw asked stowers to come back in a short-handed game against uab, stowers agreed to do so, and he lit it up. he scored double digits in a surprising win against a conference usa team. i don't believe he played again. it was a pretty remarkable story. nelson rolled the dice benching lowder with no other point guard on the roster (it would take unusual humility for any person to be okay with that, especially a confident d1 player like lowder who had been playing well), and it basically cost us any chance of being a threat in the pl this year. my guess is that the ship has unfortunately sailed. i would agree that we are best served to move on and hope that rj johnson can be an immediate impact player next year. he seems to have that potential. A 3-23 team that lost its three best players from a last place finish in the PL last year was a Freshman PG away from being a threat in the PL this year? That's a pretty wild take.
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