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Post by hcpride on Feb 14, 2023 17:57:03 GMT -5
As I recall they were very supportive of the collection of PL schools- they were looking for guaranteed wins for their OOC schedule Yes they were and I believe they "promised" to play most of their OOC games against PL schools. The other part of the "deal" was that the PL would not offer athletic scholarships That may have worked for a while, but as the PL went to athletic scholarships, the number of games the Ivies committed to the PL gradually declined. Don't know whether this was cause and effect or just reflective of the big changes in college football in the last few decades. Yes. Father Brooks pined for a closer association with the secular Ivy League - he even had dreams we would be a member of the League itself but those also came to to naught. On a positive front, there's no doubt our football program has rebounded from the non-schollie days and the future looks bright.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 14, 2023 17:57:16 GMT -5
I wouldn't limit our geographical horizon to the North East when it comes to scheduling FBS teams. Why not consider schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and even Stanford? Those are all high quality academic institutions that we might be able to play competitively in a given year and the exposure would help spread the HC brand more broadly -- always a plus when it comes to recruiting and alumni support. One other to consider is Tulane. I may be biased since daughter #2 is a graduate, but I see it as an attractive opponent because it is a solid academic institution and is located in a fantastic city to visit. We do have few alums living in Louisiana but I think we would see many flying in to see the game and the myriad attractions of NOLA.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 14, 2023 18:32:37 GMT -5
If and only if we continue to defeat our FBS opponent, our pay games might need to be elevated a notch or two, but to be fair, nobody should put the cart before the horse.
Ok balance offered, now let Coach and his great staff keep delivering purple magic✝️✝️✝️🏈🏈🏈🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
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Post by spenser on Feb 14, 2023 18:57:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't limit our geographical horizon to the North East when it comes to scheduling FBS teams. Why not consider schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and even Stanford? Those are all high quality academic institutions that we might be able to play competitively in a given year and the exposure would help spread the HC brand more broadly -- always a plus when it comes to recruiting and alumni support. One other to consider is Tulane. I may be biased since daughter #2 is a graduate, but I see it as an attractive opponent because it is a solid academic institution and is located in a fantastic city to visit. We do have few alums living in Louisiana but I think we would see many flying in to see the game and the myriad attractions of NOLA. Amen!!! One day (year) at a time.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 14, 2023 19:27:14 GMT -5
HC-ND in '33? Great game for the 88th b-day. Moving along... IL? That ship sailed. Legend has it that in the early 50's the IL voted 7-1 to admit HC. Harvard was the lone holdout. Certainly, HC does not fit the small-medium sized research university IL paradigm. Never gonna' happen. ND/G-Town? Years later HC leadership believed DivIII NESCAC was a better fit. Despite HC's entreaties NESCAC never considered HC for membership. HC was dismissed w/out a hearing, on the outside, looking in. Again, never gonna' happen. For years HC was an orphan, an independent with no conference and no clear identity in athletics. Lo & behold the Colonial/PL... With HC's enrollment growth the school has crossed the Rubicon to Div.I for the foreseeable future until the inevitable mass extinction.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 14, 2023 19:57:32 GMT -5
It has long been my hope that someday almost all will attend HC "at little or no cost."(PP) Not going to happen any time soon but I believe it is a worthy goal. The value of Princeton's endowment increased by about $10 billion between June 30, 2020, and June 30, 2021m from $27 billion to $37 billion. About 37 percent. The endowment value dropped a bit in 2022. If Princeton can average a three year (2021,2022, 2023) endowment value of $37 billion, and Princeton continues to distribute 5 percent of the total endowment value, the distribution in 2025 would be about $500 million more than in 2021. For the fiscal year ending June 30 2021, Princeton's revenue from tuition and fees for the entire university, net of financial aid, was $105 million. ($105 million was what matriculating students (or their parents paid.) There are 5,500 undergraduates, 3,100 graduate students.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 14, 2023 20:01:39 GMT -5
The Ivy League was established in 1954, so I doubt there was ever consideration, let alone a vote, to include HC as a founding member.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 14, 2023 20:12:18 GMT -5
The Ivy League was established in 1954, so I doubt there was ever consideration, let alone a vote, to include HC as a founding member. Agreed. But, despite my protestations, there was more than one Crusader who spouted this tale. Was this a classic case of wishful fantasy? Academicaly, HC was and is not IVY on many levels. It was a legend.
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Post by Chu Chu on Feb 14, 2023 20:15:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't limit our geographical horizon to the North East when it comes to scheduling FBS teams. Why not consider schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and even Stanford? Those are all high quality academic institutions that we might be able to play competitively in a given year and the exposure would help spread the HC brand more broadly -- always a plus when it comes to recruiting and alumni support. Colgate went to Stanford!
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 14, 2023 20:20:46 GMT -5
HC-ND in '33? Great game for the 88th b-day. Moving along... IL? That ship sailed. Legend has it that in the early 50's the IL voted 7-1 to admit HC. Harvard was the lone holdout. Certainly, HC does not fit the small-medium sized research university IL paradigm. Never gonna' happen. ND/G-Town? Years later HC leadership believed DivIII NESCAC was a better fit. despite HC's entreaties NESCAC never considered HC for membership. HC was dismissed w/out a hearing, on the outside, looking in. Again, never gonna' happen. For years HC was an orphan, an independent with no conference and no clear identity in athletics. Lo & behold the Colonial/PL... With HC's enrollment growth the school has crossed the Rubicon to Div.I for the foreseeable future until the inevitable mass extinction. www.nytimes.com/1982/01/10/sports/ivy-league-considers-adding-2-schools.html?smid=em-shareHere's an article discussing potential IL expansion when D-1 splintered. HC gets the briefest of mention by an official of an Ivy school speaking without being identified. The old "deep background".
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 14, 2023 20:41:56 GMT -5
The Ivy League was established in 1954, so I doubt there was ever consideration, let alone a vote, to include HC as a founding member. But the HC entreaties to NESCAC must be in the Holy Cross archives. Unless HC isn't covered by the Presidential Records Act.🤔🙂 The one term I do remember hearing was "Holy Cross is a member of the mythical Catholic Ivy League academically." I remember thinking I would rather Holy Cross be in the mythical "East Indies" Athletic conference.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 14, 2023 23:14:34 GMT -5
IL? That ship sailed. Legend has it that in the early 50's the IL voted 7-1 to admit HC. Harvard was the lone holdout. Certainly, HC does not fit the small-medium sized research university IL paradigm. Never gonna' happen. ND/G-Town? The IL has zero interest in Georgetown. Never has, never will.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 14, 2023 23:23:07 GMT -5
I can’t imagine that the Ivy League has any intention of adding to its 8 school conference ever. Ever. Adding any school would upset the current balance and dilute the brand equity. The 8 schools must all be absolutely delighted with being in the conference
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Post by nhteamer on Feb 15, 2023 9:21:11 GMT -5
back away from the crack pipe boys
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Post by hc87 on Feb 15, 2023 9:50:00 GMT -5
I don't think the IL expected "guaranteed wins" every year, but they were certainly aiming to bring to an end those annual "Black Saturdays" in late September (as I believe the NYT once described it) when most of the IL played OOC schools and lost most of those games...sometimes very badly. I do recall one year where Princeton got pounded by Delaware 63 to zero. In the following week's NYT usual Saturday college football column, the writer noted that the Tigers "were back in the Ivy League, where they belong." In the early years of the Colonial/PL, I believe there was actually a formal agreement to play 2-3 games per season against PL teams to fill out the non-conf. schedule. That seems to have gone by the wayside with Pioneer league teams increasingly showing up on Ivy schedules. Here is the Princeton schedule out to 2029 goprincetontigers.com/sports/2017/4/20/future-football-schedules.aspxThose are pretty bland/boring OOC games for Princeton through the end of the decade. They really should look to challenge themselves more with a CAA school look W&M or Richmond, and an FBS like a Navy, Army or even Rutgers.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 15, 2023 10:04:06 GMT -5
Generally speaking, the Ivies want to win the Ivy title and amass wins in the OOC. “Challenging” themselves is not really in the cards for most of them. The only reason we’re still playing Yale and Harvard is that we locked them in to 10 year contracts when we were terrible. I suspect they will both disappear from our schedule as soon as those deals expire if not sooner.
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Post by princetoncrusader on Feb 15, 2023 10:12:57 GMT -5
Agreed. They did have a game at Army set during the COVID season, but alas the IL cancelled the entire academic year as we all know. I don't see these future schedules as being much of a recruiting tool, apart from a road trip to San Diego of the Pioneer League. Monmouth is now in the CAA so that could be an intriguing local rivalry. In contrast, Princeton lacrosse and basketball (men & women's teams) clearly like to play national OOC schedules. I guess the football coach would rather pad his record against low level FCS opponents.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 15, 2023 10:23:24 GMT -5
I can’t imagine that the Ivy League has any intention of adding to its 8 school conference ever. Ever. Adding any school would upset the current balance and dilute the brand equity. The 8 schools must all be absolutely delighted with being in the conference No one leaves the PL either. PL brand equity plus three bucks is worth a cup of coffee, but the league still makes sense for the members.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 15, 2023 11:42:44 GMT -5
I can’t imagine that the Ivy League has any intention of adding to its 8 school conference ever. Ever. Adding any school would upset the current balance and dilute the brand equity. The 8 schools must all be absolutely delighted with being in the conference No one leaves the PL either. PL brand equity plus three bucks is worth a cup of coffee, but the league still makes sense for the members. Yes, our polyglot (small colleges, service academies, Catholic and secular schools, large and small universities) league may not confer academic prestige (or lack thereof) but it does provide a home for its members. So that’s something.
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Post by mm67 on Feb 15, 2023 11:51:34 GMT -5
Academic prestige? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Post by Ignutz on Feb 15, 2023 14:40:45 GMT -5
I wouldn't limit our geographical horizon to the North East when it comes to scheduling FBS teams. Why not consider schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and even Stanford? Those are all high quality academic institutions that we might be able to play competitively in a given year and the exposure would help spread the HC brand more broadly -- always a plus when it comes to recruiting and alumni support. Not sure how/why it popped into my aging noggin a number of years ago, but I'd like to see us play Rice. It would be a winnable game, and it would provide decent exposure in the Lone Star state. (Not to mention that it's of similar size from an Undergrad standpoint, as well as a high-academic institution ala Alma Mater.)
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Post by mm67 on Feb 15, 2023 15:25:02 GMT -5
I do like the idea of playing Rice, Tulane, Duke, etc. But, do they? Why would these schools want to play HC? What do they gain? HC does not increase the national exposure of these FBS teams. HC does not have hundreds of thousands of alums around the nation.What is in it for these "vulnerable"FBS teams other than a possible loss to a top FCS team? If they win they gain nothing because they are expected to win. If they lose, the coach might get fired. It's a lose, lose for these schools & their coaches. In all likelihood Northeast FBS teams will be HC's primary FBS opponents.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 15, 2023 15:57:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't limit our geographical horizon to the North East when it comes to scheduling FBS teams. Why not consider schools like Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and even Stanford? Those are all high quality academic institutions that we might be able to play competitively in a given year and the exposure would help spread the HC brand more broadly -- always a plus when it comes to recruiting and alumni support. Not sure how/why it popped into my aging noggin a number of years ago, but I'd like to see us play Rice. It would be a winnable game, and it would provide decent exposure in the Lone Star state. (Not to mention that it's of similar size from an Undergrad standpoint, as well as a high-academic institution ala Alma Mater.) A Bay Stater made an important speech at Rice while selling the goal of putting a man on the moon "in this decade." Responding to the question of why go to the moon, JFK compared it to this question which pleased the audience: "Why does Rice play Texas?" HC has a professor who studies the JFK era and she put on a marvelous alumni presentation at the JFK Library a few years ago. BTW, why does Holy Cross play Boston College?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 15, 2023 16:18:24 GMT -5
To win
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Post by efg72 on Feb 15, 2023 18:54:42 GMT -5
Not sure how/why it popped into my aging noggin a number of years ago, but I'd like to see us play Rice. It would be a winnable game, and it would provide decent exposure in the Lone Star state. (Not to mention that it's of similar size from an Undergrad standpoint, as well as a high-academic institution ala Alma Mater.) A Bay Stater made an important speech at Rice while selling the goal of putting a man on the moon "in this decade." Responding to the question of why go to the moon, JFK compared it to this question which pleased the audience: "Why does Rice play Texas?" HC has a professor who studies the JFK era and she put on a marvelous alumni presentation at the JFK Library a few years ago. BTW, why does Holy Cross play Boston College? The father of colleague Peter Fenn -going back to the Senate Intel days, ran the library until just recently i am almost finished my book on the assassination, a significantly revised version of the Committee final report. It can’t be released until 2026 when the US Senate allows for our documents to be released -if they do
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