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Post by timholycross on Nov 19, 2023 18:01:24 GMT -5
So NC Central gets in because it tied for first in that league? If they beat Howard, Howard would have been 6-6 and out. Bad luck there.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 19, 2023 18:50:07 GMT -5
I read a post on this board saying that Delaware was "last team in". Figured that was stated on the selection show that I didn't watch. That's all. Thanks for the correction. Because yea UD as "last team in" doesn't make sense. Soooo let's retract the idea/hope that the CAA gets no respect. They got 4 teams in. Two seeded and two at-large. We had 1 (the auto-bid). CAA clearly was treated fairly IMO. Only reason I made that comment was because someone said Delaware was the last team in the field. Which would've been eye-opening considering they're an 8-3 out of the CAA, which typically is an automatic in. So, sure statement completely retracted. Obviously when someone said Delaware was "last team in", they must have meant they were the last team to have been announced during the selection show, not the choice by the committee for the last at-large. I think that was the confusion.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 19, 2023 18:54:45 GMT -5
So NC Central gets in because it tied for first in that league? If they beat Howard, Howard would have been 6-6 and out. Bad luck there. 9-2 overall record, 8-1 FCS and the NCAA will take a MEAC or SWAC team whenever they get the chance to keep those leagues connected to the tournament.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 19, 2023 19:06:06 GMT -5
The overall finish is a disappointment (assuming no miracle playoff berth) but the team's performance wasn't a disappointment if that makes sense. In 2022, we were extremely fortunate when it came to staying healthy, minus losing Dobbs. And last year could've ended up the same way as this season without the Sluka-to-Coker Hail Mary against Buffalo, the 4th and 16 TD completion at Lafayette and the Philly Special 2pt conversion in OT against Fordham. Instead of 11-0 and a seed, we'd have been 8-3 with our best win being Yale, who was Ivy standalone champ but not in the Top 25. Agree with 2022 assessment, and the fact the 2023 coaching job was probably better given the number of injuries ( 6 freshmen playing on defense in the second half of the season ) The PL had 2 berths last year, but the fact of the matter was that 2022 Fordham was a better #2 PL choice than 2023 HC Not a big believer of pre-season polls, but the ranking didn't change after the BC game, and barely changed after the Army game.......The killers were the home losses, particularly against an unheralded Lafayette team ( although they should after beaten us in 2022, as noted )..If you have national championship aspirations, you have to dominate a disrepected league, and we really didn't......we were better OOC, with the exception of the Harvard debacle But, the PL respect card is real......7 ( seven !!!) 4 loss teams got in....not us......SoS should have been good enough. And, you'd think the Committee would want to increase interest in the tournament by keeping a generational talent like Sluka ( and for that matter, Dobbs and Coker ) on the field.......Do we know who the PL representative on the Committee was ?? In the end, a blocked punt ( when was the last time HC had a punt blocked ?? ) and a lightning strike changed the outcome........we simply didn't do enough To a) be fair to the committee and b) highlight how well respected this particular Holy Cross team is/was, let's remember that only one 8-3 team has ever received an at-large out of the Patriot League. A 7-4 PL team getting an at-large would've been unprecedented. We are the only 7-4 team out of the Patriot League to have ever even gotten mild consideration. People keep mentioning the SoS. Problem is we didn't BEAT any of the really strong teams on the schedule, unless you count Yale. After that, our next best wins were over a bunch of 6-5 teams (Fordham, Colgate, Merrimack) + 5-6 Goergetown.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 19, 2023 19:12:09 GMT -5
Loved the team, but:1)stay inbounds; 2) take care of the ball; and 3) dont allow a punt block and you're 10-1 and challenging for a seed. Lafayette won fair and square...and I'm no ackidemick.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 19, 2023 19:17:17 GMT -5
Agree with 2022 assessment, and the fact the 2023 coaching job was probably better given the number of injuries ( 6 freshmen playing on defense in the second half of the season ) The PL had 2 berths last year, but the fact of the matter was that 2022 Fordham was a better #2 PL choice than 2023 HC Not a big believer of pre-season polls, but the ranking didn't change after the BC game, and barely changed after the Army game.......The killers were the home losses, particularly against an unheralded Lafayette team ( although they should after beaten us in 2022, as noted )..If you have national championship aspirations, you have to dominate a disrepected league, and we really didn't......we were better OOC, with the exception of the Harvard debacle But, the PL respect card is real......7 ( seven !!!) 4 loss teams got in....not us......SoS should have been good enough. And, you'd think the Committee would want to increase interest in the tournament by keeping a generational talent like Sluka ( and for that matter, Dobbs and Coker ) on the field.......Do we know who the PL representative on the Committee was ?? In the end, a blocked punt ( when was the last time HC had a punt blocked ?? ) and a lightning strike changed the outcome........we simply didn't do enough To a) be fair to the committee and b) highlight how well respected this particular Holy Cross team is/was, let's remember that only one 8-3 team has ever received an at-large out of the Patriot League. A 7-4 PL team getting an at-large would've been unprecedented. We are the only 7-4 team out of the Patriot League to have ever even gotten mild consideration. People keep mentioning the SoS. Problem is we didn't BEAT any of the really strong teams on the schedule, unless you count Yale. After that, our next best wins were over a bunch of 6-5 teams (Fordham, Colgate, Merrimack) + 5-6 Goergetown. You hit on a key point. When posts are made advocating to upgrade leagues or upgrade divisions, the concept that Holy Cross could fall into a second ice age against stronger competition isn't given due consideration. This year's schedule was exciting and challenging but also riskier than a weaker schedule would be.
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Post by gks on Nov 19, 2023 19:19:23 GMT -5
HC ranked 41 in strength of schedule. Teams with easier schedules were selected. HC wasn't. The SOS/PL did not hold us back.Looking at HC's SOS How did the PL hold us back in competition with these other colleges with easier skeds? You really shouldn't have to ask this question. The proof is in the final decisions made by the selection committee. Do you think...that if the men's or women's basketball teams finished, say 25-5, they'd get an at large? No shot. Saw this with a Gibbons team back in the day that was like 28-3 but lost in the PL tourney. There's a choice to be made...play the meaningless Ivy games and feel good driving away down 290 or play a national schedule and make annual runs in the NCAA tourney. And guess what, you don't have to become part of the 'cesspool' to do it. For the life of me I can't understand why so many think playing in front of 1,500 at the Yale Bowl is so important.
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Post by mm67 on Nov 19, 2023 19:41:30 GMT -5
HC ranked 41 in strength of schedule. Teams with easier schedules were selected. HC wasn't. The SOS/PL did not hold us back.Looking at HC's SOS How did the PL hold us back in competition with these other colleges with easier skeds? You really shouldn't have to ask this question. The proof is in the final decisions made by the selection committee. Do you think...that if the men's or women's basketball teams finished, say 25-5, they'd get an at large? No shot. Saw this with a Gibbons team back in the day that was like 28-3 but lost in the PL tourney. There's a choice to be made...play the meaningless Ivy games and feel good driving away down 290 or play a national schedule and make annual runs in the NCAA tourney. And guess what, you don't have to become part of the 'cesspool' to do it. For the life of me I can't understand why so many think playing in front of 1,500 at the Yale Bowl is so important. Simple math. Peace.
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Post by cruskater31 on Nov 19, 2023 19:47:04 GMT -5
Loved the team, but:1)stay inbounds; 2) take care of the ball; and 3) dont allow a punt block and you're 10-1 and challenging for a seed. Lafayette won fair and square...and I'm no ackidemick. Good points. I would also add, take the points early in the 4th quarter against, BC, Laffy, and Army.
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Post by purple1 on Nov 19, 2023 19:50:14 GMT -5
The Patriot League selection committee representative must be a " snowflake " . How could he or she not make the case for a team who is 19W - 5L over the past two years and has played in the FCS playoffs for the past 3 years, pushing SDSU & Villanova to the brink in their games. 6 teams from Missouri Valley is BS....... Chattanooga ?? 66 -10 LOSERS to Alabama. 3 team maximum from a conference should be implemented to build interest in the FCS.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 19, 2023 20:06:24 GMT -5
UNH had a showing in the top 25 early and got knocked out of the playoff race early Yea but that is a soccer school that just beat the defending national champion....
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Post by gks on Nov 19, 2023 20:08:30 GMT -5
The Patriot League selection committee representative must be a " snowflake " . How could he or she not make the case for a team who is 19W - 5L over the past two years and has played in the FCS playoffs for the past 3 years, pushing SDSU & Villanova to the brink in their games. 6 teams from Missouri Valley is BS....... Chattanooga ?? 66 -10 LOSERS to Alabama. 3 team maximum from a conference should be implemented to build interest in the FCS. A lot of good points here. The Northeast has minimal pull in this selection process. The subdivision has shifted west and south. Missouri Valley is to the FCS playoffs what the Big 10 is to March Madness. Way to many teams that don't deserve a bid. Does the PL care? Does the PL care that they only get two teams in every three or four years? Does the PL care that the FCS powers that be, FCS national bloggers/media think they're a soft conference? Until the PL actually gives a crap about competing on a national stage the attitude with those that matter will not change.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2023 20:10:41 GMT -5
Last year's team had SIX turnovers in 13 games. This year's team had 13 turnovers in 11 games, plus a blocked punt converted into a TD. This year's team blocked no punts, last year's team was a punt-blocking circus. Last year's team forced 23 turnovers (fumbles and interceptions) in 13 games, a +17 in the turnover margin. This year's team, a -2 in the turnover margin in 11 games. (Question, are blocked punts / FGs counted as fumbles?)
The Stats Perform poll through Nov 12 had Delaware at #7, with 1,029 points. Lafayette at #24 with 121 points. Holy Cross at #30 with 21 points.
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Post by lehighowl on Nov 19, 2023 20:27:13 GMT -5
The Patriot League selection committee representative must be a " snowflake " . How could he or she not make the case for a team who is 19W - 5L over the past two years and has played in the FCS playoffs for the past 3 years, pushing SDSU & Villanova to the brink in their games. 6 teams from Missouri Valley is BS....... Chattanooga ?? 66 -10 LOSERS to Alabama. 3 team maximum from a conference should be implemented to build interest in the FCS. Lehigh went 21-5 (10-3, 11-2) the two seasons, including playoff wins over MVFC Champ Northern Iowa and CAA Champ Towson both on the road, were 10-1 heading into the 2012 Selection Sunday yet were left out . Now their schedule wasn't "great" (won at Big South Champ Liberty) but was a damn good team who took everyone's best shot, had pedigree yet was told the only avenue to the playoffs is to go three straight years without a PL loss. As it was they lost one game, to 8-3 Colgate, and were left wondering WTH. Also, their All-American WR Ryan Spadola missed some time with Mono. In 2003 Lehigh was the "Woofed Award" my the then 1-AA media after going 8-3 with some good wins. They're only losses were to 10-0 Penn (31-24), @ 12-0 Colgate (17-10) seeded, national finalist and @ 9-3 1-A UConn (35-17) with Dan Orlovsky. This was at a time when Lehigh was on a roll, spending 4-5 straight years in the polls. Ironically, they got an at-large bid AND a home game in 2004 where they lost 14-13 to eventual national champ JMU. While it stinks, Holy Cross is not the only one who was left on the outside looking in come playoff time despite having a team who could compete with the better teams. They also join 2002 Lehigh (preseason Top 5) and 2004 Colgate (preseason Top 5, national runner-up in 2003, returned Payton Winner Jamaal Branch) who could not reach their perceived ceiling....
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Post by cruskater31 on Nov 19, 2023 20:41:17 GMT -5
The Patriot League selection committee representative must be a " snowflake " . How could he or she not make the case for a team who is 19W - 5L over the past two years and has played in the FCS playoffs for the past 3 years, pushing SDSU & Villanova to the brink in their games. 6 teams from Missouri Valley is BS....... Chattanooga ?? 66 -10 LOSERS to Alabama. 3 team maximum from a conference should be implemented to build interest in the FCS. Lehigh went 21-5 (10-3, 11-2) the two seasons, including playoff wins over MVFC Champ Northern Iowa and CAA Champ Towson both on the road, were 10-1 heading into the 2012 Selection Sunday yet were left out . Now their schedule wasn't "great" (won at Big South Champ Liberty) but was a damn good team who took everyone's best shot, had pedigree yet was told the only avenue to the playoffs is to go three straight years without a PL loss. As it was they lost one game, to 8-3 Colgate, and were left wondering WTH. Also, their All-American WR Ryan Spadola missed some time with Mono. In 2003 Lehigh was the "Woofed Award" my the then 1-AA media after going 8-3 with some good wins. They're only losses were to 10-0 Penn (31-24), @ 12-0 Colgate (17-10) seeded, national finalist and @ 9-3 1-A UConn (35-17) with Dan Orlovsky. This was at a time when Lehigh was on a roll, spending 4-5 straight years in the polls. Ironically, they got an at-large bid AND a home game in 2004 where they lost 14-13 to eventual national champ JMU. While it stinks, Holy Cross is not the only one who was left on the outside looking in come playoff time despite having a team who could compete with the better teams. They also join 2002 Lehigh (preseason Top 5) and 2004 Colgate (preseason Top 5, national runner-up in 2003, returned Payton Winner Jamaal Branch) who could not reach their perceived ceiling.... thanks for the history and your perspective. Our league had had its fair share of dynasties and national contenders (thinking of Lehigh, Colgate, and most recently, HC). It is a shame we have been essentially a 1 bid league for 25+ years. I cannot imagine that 2012 and 2003 Lehigh teams and what they experienced on Selection Sunday. It does begin the question about what we see as our collective football aspirations and destiny. If the FCS does not seem to care about northeast football, perhaps there is a collective of northeast G5 teams who could help the cause.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 19, 2023 20:44:18 GMT -5
The Patriot League selection committee representative must be a " snowflake " . How could he or she not make the case for a team who is 19W - 5L over the past two years and has played in the FCS playoffs for the past 3 years, pushing SDSU & Villanova to the brink in their games. 6 teams from Missouri Valley is BS....... Chattanooga ?? 66 -10 LOSERS to Alabama. 3 team maximum from a conference should be implemented to build interest in the FCS. Fordham AD, don’t know who his back up is for another conference. The Fordham AD is not in the room to present for any PL member, that is handled by his/her surrogate from another conference. so say it was AD x representing the sky and presenting the PL no doubt these are good and honest people, but for Haslam to tell the world he voted against HC getting the seed last year was not smart imho anyway if we want to qualify as a champion or an at large we must win the conference outright or drop our Ivy and NE opponents and play the teams from the Sky, Valley, Southern or Top rated CAA teams
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Post by hc87 on Nov 19, 2023 22:36:17 GMT -5
The Patriot League selection committee representative must be a " snowflake " . How could he or she not make the case for a team who is 19W - 5L over the past two years and has played in the FCS playoffs for the past 3 years, pushing SDSU & Villanova to the brink in their games. 6 teams from Missouri Valley is BS....... Chattanooga ?? 66 -10 LOSERS to Alabama. 3 team maximum from a conference should be implemented to build interest in the FCS. Fordham AD, don’t know who his back up is for another conference. The Fordham AD is not in the room to present for any PL member, that is handled by his/her surrogate from another conference. so say it was AD x representing the sky and presenting the PL no doubt these are good and honest people, but for Haslam to tell the world he voted against HC getting the seed last year was not smart imho anyway if we want to qualify as a champion or an at large we must win the conference outright or drop our Ivy and NE opponents and play the teams from the Sky, Valley, Southern or Top rated CAA teamsWe are nevah going to play Big Sky or Missouri Valley teams regularly....that's why we are at the FCS-level. Too much emphasis by some on this board is going toward winning an FCS title....while it's a worthy goal, it doesn't take precedence ovah playing our rivals for roughly ovah a hundred years of playing our Ivy rivals or longtime FBS opponents like BC or Army imo. Is beating UT-Chatanooga in the playoffs really that much more important than beating Harvard during the regular season? I really don't think so.
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Post by lou on Nov 19, 2023 22:47:13 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 19, 2023 23:06:37 GMT -5
Those quotes from BC, Jake and CJ capture the tenor of this team throughout the season.
Someone posted the chances Coach Chesney stays at about 40%-50%. I’d say it is more like 90%-95%.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 19, 2023 23:26:17 GMT -5
Chesney may leave, I really have no clue....but I will say that he "gets" Holy Cross.....there are very few football jobs at the D1 level that afford a coach what Chesney appreciates having as being the head man at HC. Great kids, great facilities, great network etc......it's a tremendous job that many would be very lucky to have.
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Post by efg72 on Nov 20, 2023 8:02:47 GMT -5
Fordham AD, don’t know who his back up is for another conference. The Fordham AD is not in the room to present for any PL member, that is handled by his/her surrogate from another conference. so say it was AD x representing the sky and presenting the PL no doubt these are good and honest people, but for Haslam to tell the world he voted against HC getting the seed last year was not smart imho anyway if we want to qualify as a champion or an at large we must win the conference outright or drop our Ivy and NE opponents and play the teams from the Sky, Valley, Southern or Top rated CAA teamsWe are nevah going to play Big Sky or Missouri Valley teams regularly....that's why we are at the FCS-level. Too much emphasis by some on this board is going toward winning an FCS title....while it's a worthy goal, it doesn't take precedence ovah playing our rivals for roughly ovah a hundred years of playing our Ivy rivals or longtime FBS opponents like BC or Army imo. Is beating UT-Chatanooga in the playoffs really that much more important than beating Harvard during the regular season? I really don't think so. Didn’t say what we should do, but those are the current options however beating Harvard, or Yale to me, which are just another game on the schedule, have no special meaning for them or us
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Post by cmo on Nov 20, 2023 8:04:56 GMT -5
Massey matchups: 16-7 vs the field (excluding Laffy) HC 38 - GW 28 HC 38 - Drake 7 HC 40 - Duquesne 21 HC 33 - Nicholls 24 HC 31 - Austin Peay 28 HC 33 - Chattanooga 27 HC 31 - Mercer 24 HC 31 - Delaware 28 HC 31 - Richmond 25 HC 31 - Sac State 30 HC 34 - Youngstown 31 HC 33 - North Dakota 31 HC 41 - NC Central 27 HC 24 - Southern Ill. 26 HC 24 - NDSU 33 Vs seeds HC 30 - Albany 27 HC 29 - Furman 24 HC 28 - Idaho 31 HC 27 - Villanova 28 HC 24 - SD 23 HC 21 - SDSU 38 HC 23 - Montana 30 HC 28 - Montana St 35 Thanks for this. This is for neutral site games ?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 20, 2023 8:55:01 GMT -5
The PL didn't have us fumble at BC, turn in zero offense at Army... the only thing the PL had us do this year was lose to the PL opponent that it was virtually necessary to beat. HC has been relevant in football for five years out of basically the last 25. The second there's even an inkling of respectability, we have to drop all the PL dead weight and run. Are any of the schools that are in these brackets similar to our school in size, reputation, history, academic profile? You think the bleachers of Fitton Field will be filled when Furman comes to town? Or ever again?
I want to win. The PL is not the problem. I say this ad nauseam in the basketball forum: if we won every single game by 40, it would be time to leave. We don't. Plain and simple. It's not our peers. It's us.
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Post by gks on Nov 20, 2023 9:05:32 GMT -5
Fordham AD, don’t know who his back up is for another conference. The Fordham AD is not in the room to present for any PL member, that is handled by his/her surrogate from another conference. so say it was AD x representing the sky and presenting the PL no doubt these are good and honest people, but for Haslam to tell the world he voted against HC getting the seed last year was not smart imho anyway if we want to qualify as a champion or an at large we must win the conference outright or drop our Ivy and NE opponents and play the teams from the Sky, Valley, Southern or Top rated CAA teamsWe are nevah going to play Big Sky or Missouri Valley teams regularly....that's why we are at the FCS-level. Too much emphasis by some on this board is going toward winning an FCS title....while it's a worthy goal, it doesn't take precedence ovah playing our rivals for roughly ovah a hundred years of playing our Ivy rivals or longtime FBS opponents like BC or Army imo. Is beating UT-Chatanooga in the playoffs really that much more important than beating Harvard during the regular season? I really don't think so. If you're not trying to reach the pinnacle of your division then why play? Play a ten game schedule in complete obscurity? Ridiculous.
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Post by JRGNYR on Nov 20, 2023 9:11:40 GMT -5
If I can be an optimist for a minute... Lafayette is clearly a program on the rise and if both Lafayette and HC can maintain their current level of competitiveness, we might be in a situation where A) the league can garner a little additional respect outside the geographic confines of the northeast and B) we have a rivalry on our hands, similar to HC/Bucknell basketball in the mid-2000s. There's a potential opportunity here, and it's a matter of whether all relevant parties can take advantage. I think there's a lot of similarities between HC and Lafayette regarding the relative histories of the programs, the down years, the anxiety experienced by the alumni, etc., that if we enter another era similar to the late 80s when both programs are good.
I think it's also important to mention that while Fordham took a step back this year, they will be in a position to attempt to reload. Colgate is improving. I think Lehigh is a few years away, but historically with the right coach and correct approach they can be really good. There's a ton of FCS-level talent in PA.
I alluded to this in another post, but maybe going into an offseason where HC needs to regain its edge as a program isn't such a bad thing. Hunter vs. hunted. Not saying the program has gotten complacent, but sharing the league title but not going to the playoffs means they didn't win the games that mattered the most. Simply put. Didn't get it done. You tip your cap to the program that did get it done and you go into the offseason with the expressed purpose of not letting that happen again.
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