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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 11, 2023 15:04:15 GMT -5
OK, " LET'S BRING BACK BRETT!" Who's with me? Anyone? Anyone at all . . . . . besides Foley? You can coach for all I care. Who is going to win? Who is going to get D1 ball players in here? Dave Paulsen
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Post by sittingbull on Dec 11, 2023 16:37:06 GMT -5
No, but they were very aware of the FCS playoffs. Not like they are in Montana or the Dakotas. Very different. In those states, the FCS football programs get the lion's share of the media attention. And during the FCS playoffs, you'll hear all about predictions, snubs, bracket breakdown, etc. on sports talk radio. In Virginia, 99% of the sports fan band-with is directed towards the Commanders, Virginia Tech football and UVA basketball. Even Liberty nobody cares outside of the evangelical haven of Lynchburg. JMU alumni base has gotten VERY into the football program since the mid-2000's. They've drawn very well in basketball whenever they're good -- Lefty Driesel era during the 1990's and of course now. JMU alum who didn't care about school sports when they were there are now all about it. But the school definitely doesn't have many "subway alumni" outside Harrisonburg, unlike schools like Montana and Montana State. 95% of college sports fans in Virginia, outside of Fairfax County and Charlottesville, support Virginia Tech. UVA alumni base the strongest around DC. W&M - fan base very similar to Holy Cross. Very loyal, travel well, proud of their history, combination of alumni base and some local support. ODU - big basketball following historically, they sold out every home football game their first 5 or 6 years but they've become a bit jaded, even with the move to FBS. And the basketball fan base definitely misses being in a league with VCU and George Mason. Richmond - kind of like Villanova in the sense that basketball very much overshadows what's a very good FCS football program. Locally, people view UR as a bunch of rich kids from NY and NJ so no one in the area that didn't go there really cares about the football team. But overall, I would still say JMU, Liberty, W&M, Richmond, ODU, Hampton, Norfolk State etc. in Virginia are competing for maybe a combined 5 % of the aggregate "sports fan mind share" if you will. As a native Virginian and W&M grad, you really nailed it! I would add that Virginia media, outside DC, is much more devoted to college coverage than pro. Any school in the State that makes waves nationally, even a Randolph Macon, will get great coverage from the Richmond Times Dispatch. They give excellent FCS coverage. On basketball, no one hurt their basketball program more than ODU. They were a dominant state team until they moved into CUSA. The move crushed their program.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 11, 2023 17:23:02 GMT -5
These are great comments about VA schools. Going back some 50 years I lived in VA when I applied to HC. My sense of the VA schools then, admittedly anecdotal, as a presence (athletically, academically, and otherwise) in the state was:
1. UVa--#1--tough to get into 2. ODU--a commuter school. The main admission requirement seemed to be that you were breathing. Lousy sports. 3. Hampton, Norfolk State--50 years ago few people talked about them. 4. Richmond--pretty easy to get into, nothing special about their sports teams. 5. JMU--A low profile, academically and athletically 6. W&M--a good school then and now; highly thought of in the state
Over the years it's interesting to see how sports has raised the profile of these schools. Richmond and JMU, maybe 15-20 years ago, also became trendy schools for kids from the Northeast to apply to. I have a niece from NH who graduated from JMU about 12 years ago, and met her husband there (old Richmond money!). Nycrusader2010's comments, more recent observations than mine, are spot on about how things currently are.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 11, 2023 18:56:32 GMT -5
You didn't mention 2 schools that once upon a time made the Final 4- what's your take on GMU and VCU?
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2023 19:16:28 GMT -5
These are great comments about VA schools. Going back some 50 years I lived in VA when I applied to HC. My sense of the VA schools then, admittedly anecdotal, as a presence (athletically, academically, and otherwise) in the state was: 1. UVa--#1--tough to get into 2. ODU--a commuter school. The main admission requirement seemed to be that you were breathing. Lousy sports. 3. Hampton, Norfolk State--50 years ago few people talked about them. 4. Richmond--pretty easy to get into, nothing special about their sports teams. 5. JMU--A low profile, academically and athletically 6. W&M--a good school then and now; highly thought of in the state Over the years it's interesting to see how sports has raised the profile of these schools. Richmond and JMU, maybe 15-20 years ago, also became trendy schools for kids from the Northeast to apply to. I have a niece from NH who graduated from JMU about 12 years ago, and met her husband there (old Richmond money!). Nycrusader2010's comments, more recent observations than mine, are spot on about how things currently are. Where is Va Tech?
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 11, 2023 19:26:33 GMT -5
Blacksburg Va - been there - a beautiful college town in the mountains ( they get winter there)
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 11, 2023 19:27:48 GMT -5
Yes, I had a few omissions:
1. Va Tech was well thought of when I graduated from high school in VA in 1970. My graduating class had 600 students and several went there. 2. GMU and VCU also had low profiles back then, especially VCU, which I'm not sure I was even aware of. 3. Liberty didn't exist in 1970. The vast majority of my 600 classmates went to college in VA (I remember a number of girls going to Mary Baldwin College). The better ones went to UVa, W&M, or Va Tech. I had one classmate who went to Yale (and graduated from Yale summa cum laude), and another went to Duke on a track scholarship. I grew up mostly in MA but my father was in the service so we had moved to Va Beach. I imagine in 1970 HC was glad to admit a kid from VA (me).
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 13, 2023 21:09:40 GMT -5
The PL in 2023 just keeps getting worse - bad loss tonight with Dartmouth beating BU 63-56.
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Post by 78purple on Dec 13, 2023 21:47:55 GMT -5
No, but they were very aware of the FCS playoffs. Not like they are in Montana or the Dakotas. Very different. In those states, the FCS football programs get the lion's share of the media attention. And during the FCS playoffs, you'll hear all about predictions, snubs, bracket breakdown, etc. on sports talk radio. In Virginia, 99% of the sports fan band-with is directed towards the Commanders, Virginia Tech football and UVA basketball. Even Liberty nobody cares outside of the evangelical haven of Lynchburg. JMU alumni base has gotten VERY into the football program since the mid-2000's. They've drawn very well in basketball whenever they're good -- Lefty Driesel era during the 1990's and of course now. JMU alum who didn't care about school sports when they were there are now all about it. But the school definitely doesn't have many "subway alumni" outside Harrisonburg, unlike schools like Montana and Montana State. 95% of college sports fans in Virginia, outside of Fairfax County and Charlottesville, support Virginia Tech. UVA alumni base the strongest around DC. W&M - fan base very similar to Holy Cross. Very loyal, travel well, proud of their history, combination of alumni base and some local support. ODU - big basketball following historically, they sold out every home football game their first 5 or 6 years but they've become a bit jaded, even with the move to FBS. And the basketball fan base definitely misses being in a league with VCU and George Mason. Richmond - kind of like Villanova in the sense that basketball very much overshadows what's a very good FCS football program. Locally, people view UR as a bunch of rich kids from NY and NJ so no one in the area that didn't go there really cares about the football team. But overall, I would still say JMU, Liberty, W&M, Richmond, ODU, Hampton, Norfolk State etc. in Virginia are competing for maybe a combined 5 % of the aggregate "sports fan mind share" if you will. Great VA review.......I can add a few things having spent 4 years at UVa during the Sampson years.......Hard to believe that 4 years of Potter, Vicens and Perry could be topped, but 4 years of ACC basketball at the dawn of ESPN did.....Jordan, Worthy, Perkins, Valvano, Driesell was SRO every game......I do think the UVa alumni base is fairly strong in Richmond and the Tidewater as well as DC No question that UVa hoops, Tech football, and the Washington Professional Football Club ( can't bring myself to utter the word Commodores ) dominates 99% of the state sports conversation Agree that anything southwest of Charlottesville ( Liberty, etc ) relatively irrelevant......Would agree that that Richmond and JMU have become the trendy, bougie NY/NJ landing spot, but Richmond has elevated its academic status, and the Villanova comparison is spot-on ( again, another good reason to be regularly playing them ). W + M is indeed very similar to HC, but is more than twice as big as HC, and suffers from the " UVa-Lite " syndrome Va Tech is, and will continue to be the dominant football program ( despite 2 recent losses to ODU which rocked the VA college sports landscape, and the fact they've come back to the pack a bit since Beamer retired ), in large part because they keep the Tidewater athletes in state, have the tradition/history, play a relatively big-time schedule and have the big-time stadium.....it was interesting that the JMU come-from-behind football win over UVa this year ( interestingly after a weather delay that occurred at exactly the same time as our weather delay at BC ) did not generate the same kind of buzz in the state that ODU-Tech upsets did... I think that the Tech presence is Ches' biggest challenge.....they are right in his back yard, will compete for the same Tidewater/DC athletes, and they have to overcome that tradition and history....Big challenge, but it wouldn't shock me if he pulls it off...Tech is somewhat vulnerable right now
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Post by trimster on Dec 17, 2023 8:28:20 GMT -5
Ninety percent of the PL men’s hoop teams are in Bart Torvik’s bottom 100.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 17, 2023 9:00:02 GMT -5
Massey Rank for Men 137 Colgate (6-4) 282 Bucknell (5-8) 289 American (5-6) 291 Boston Univ. (4-7) 298 Navy (2-6) 331 Lehigh (2-7) 344 Lafayette (1-10) 352 Army (1-8) 355 Loyola (1-10) 357 HOLY CROSS (2-8)
Out of a total of 362 rated men's teams.
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 17, 2023 9:22:48 GMT -5
I think I've seen every team in the league play at least once, Colgate was the only team that I saw that I felt was way above our level. Their bigs are the difference...If we can get and stay healthy, I can easily see HC finishing in the middle of the pack. That assumes HC will get better as as a team as the season moves on!
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Post by Xmassader on Dec 17, 2023 9:32:03 GMT -5
As of this am, PL 28-74 (.275) overall and 21-74 (.206) vs. D-1 opposition. Looking ahead at the schedules for the rest of December, there are not a lot of Ws on the horizon.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 17, 2023 10:15:47 GMT -5
Bad is bad, and we're bad; but how do Lehigh's two wins against Suny Oneonta and Cairn* rate better than our two D1 wins, one against an alleged member of the Big East?
*the Cairn Terriers w/alternate nickname the Totos
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Post by DiMarz on Dec 17, 2023 12:10:48 GMT -5
Bad is bad, and we're bad; but how do Lehigh's two wins against Suny Oneonta and Cairn* rate better than our two D1 wins, one against an alleged member of the Big East? *the Cairn Terriers w/alternate nickname the Totos I think when anew coach comes in, there is an adjustment time to what should happen on offense and defense. Not just running them, but the nuances needed to see and act instantly, not see, read and act. I think the biggest disadvantage HC has at the moment on offense, is the lack of of a true point guard. AJ could be that guy. He seems best suited and comfortable at the point. Hopefully this week off proves very fruitful for all!
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Post by princetoncrusader on Dec 17, 2023 15:26:24 GMT -5
Colgate gave Illinois a good battle today, cutting the lead to 9 late in the game before losing by 17. Their big men are impressive. "Colgate came to play," said the BTN announcer as one of the Raider guards made a basket and got fouled in the lane.
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Post by trimster on Dec 17, 2023 17:47:42 GMT -5
Massey Rank for Men 137 Colgate (6-4) 282 Bucknell (5-8) 289 American (5-6) 291 Boston Univ. (4-7) 298 Navy (2-6) 331 Lehigh (2-7) 344 Lafayette (1-10) 352 Army (1-8) 355 Loyola (1-10) 357 HOLY CROSS (2-8) This is even worse than Pomeroy's ranking. Nine of the bottom 80.
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Post by bigfan on Dec 18, 2023 9:27:09 GMT -5
The Patriot League has killed our basketball program. One time a proud program, now we are in the bottom and no hope of recovering until we leave the PL.
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Post by res on Dec 18, 2023 10:12:51 GMT -5
Groundhog Day
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 18, 2023 10:31:14 GMT -5
The PL did not kill our hoops program. We (HC) did that all by ourselves with some poor coaching hires and unfortunate recruiting. The PL did not do either of those things. Let's see what comes under Paulson's leadership. I am hoping for the best.
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Post by trimster on Dec 18, 2023 12:14:05 GMT -5
The PL did not kill our hoops program. We (HC) did that all by ourselves with some poor coaching hires and unfortunate recruiting. The PL did not do either of those things. Let's see what comes under Paulson's leadership. I am hoping for the best. It’s probably a combination of the two. Bad hires within a bad conference ain’t a good combo.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 18, 2023 12:50:26 GMT -5
The PL is what it is. While certainly not a perfect conference and in need of some modification, it was not what caused HC basketball's fall. There are some folks who try to blame everything that they do not like on the Patriot League. IMHO, that is just too simple to be a real explanation.
PS A bad hire is a bad hire...period. The need to lay it off on the PL I do not understand.
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Post by hc1996 on Dec 18, 2023 14:19:56 GMT -5
The PL is what it is. While certainly not a perfect conference and in need of some modification, it was not what caused HC basketball's fall. There are some folks who try to blame everything that they do not like on the Patriot League. IMHO, that is just too simple to be a real explanation. PS A bad hire is a bad hire...period. the need to lay it off on the PL I do not understand. Agreed 100%. I also think the PL puts downward pressure on us, but it's not the biggest issue. Willard got it done in the PL and scared the crap out of the blue bloods year after year.
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 21, 2023 16:45:44 GMT -5
Quinnipiac won at Laf today by almost identical score as they beat us - today’s PL loss by 78-60 score - Leopards have one win this season over D3 Wilkes College
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Post by hc87 on Dec 21, 2023 17:13:01 GMT -5
Not advocating a move out of the PL here.....but there really seems to be something really amiss with this league men's hoop-wise....how can it be this bad???
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