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Post by sader1970 on Dec 11, 2023 11:48:44 GMT -5
Not a vote for or against. I also trust kit. Just commenting on the last part of the job description (recruiting) that you highlighted. . You realize I was kidding, right? And, yes, I understood what you meant. A very valid point. I only know that one player on offense said he came to Holy Cross because of Chris. That's not a lot but my field of vision is narrow.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 11, 2023 11:50:50 GMT -5
When we hired Chesney, I had a lot of fun tracking the Worcester to Worcester flight. Also I noticed the day we made the hire there was another flight that had taken off from Salisbury, MD and turned around somwhere around Atlantic City, returning to Salisbury. I think that must've been Lee Hull's flight.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2023 11:53:48 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, anyone know Smith's compensation/contract terms etc in E. Rutherford? Just wondering if it may play a factor in his decision to return to Mt St James.
While I'm at, what do guys like Toerper, McGonagle etc make roughly as D3 HC's?
Be curious what type of "out of the box" candidates may emerge. G5 FBS coordinators? Other current FCS HC's?
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Post by hc1996 on Dec 11, 2023 12:19:29 GMT -5
If Chesney was making about 250k prior to the extension, I'd assume the D3 coaches we've mentioned must be very far south of that. 150k max. But I have no insight....just a guess.
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Post by hc17 on Dec 11, 2023 13:04:41 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, anyone know Smith's compensation/contract terms etc in E. Rutherford? Just wondering if it may play a factor in his decision to return to Mt St James. While I'm at, what do guys like Toerper, McGonagle etc make roughly as D3 HC's? Be curious what type of "out of the box" candidates may emerge. G5 FBS coordinators? Other current FCS HC's? First thought is pulling someone from one of the Academies or high academic, but no one super appealing or realistic
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 11, 2023 13:33:45 GMT -5
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Post by gks on Dec 11, 2023 13:39:39 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, anyone know Smith's compensation/contract terms etc in E. Rutherford? Just wondering if it may play a factor in his decision to return to Mt St James. While I'm at, what do guys like Toerper, McGonagle etc make roughly as D3 HC's? Be curious what type of "out of the box" candidates may emerge. G5 FBS coordinators? Other current FCS HC's? First thought is pulling someone from one of the Academies or high academic, but no one super appealing or realistic I want a coach that wins. HC is not going to turn into a 'cesspool' or whatever no matter who the coach is. High academic types can apply to head the library. I want a football coach that wins.
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Post by drjack on Dec 11, 2023 13:54:45 GMT -5
I don't think it's relevant, but since I have the flight tracker up, a flights coming in from Lancaster tonight.
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Post by purplehaze on Dec 11, 2023 13:59:29 GMT -5
Are we in the game of flying in coach prospects on private jets into Worcester? I don’t think so
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Post by drjack on Dec 11, 2023 14:02:57 GMT -5
I don't know, but works been riding me to the bone the last two weeks, so the least they can do is let me refresh a FlightAware page a few times a day.
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Post by hc17 on Dec 11, 2023 14:07:56 GMT -5
First thought is pulling someone from one of the Academies or high academic, but no one super appealing or realistic I want a coach that wins. HC is not going to turn into a 'cesspool' or whatever no matter who the coach is. High academic types can apply to head the library. I want a football coach that wins. We all want to win....Toerper & Smith are the likely favorites & would presumably check that box. With that said, I don't think we retain James if Toerper is the HC....Weird dynamic having your ex-position coach jump you into the head chair after 2 years of coaching D3 football.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Dec 11, 2023 14:39:28 GMT -5
Are we in the game of flying in coach prospects on private jets into Worcester? I don’t think so Harrisonburg is in the boonies. Two hour drive to DC and about the same to Richmond.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 11, 2023 15:12:04 GMT -5
Last coaching change we only needed to see who was getting off the Consortium Van on Linden Lane....
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Post by mm67 on Dec 11, 2023 15:23:57 GMT -5
I believe a plane was sent to Ohio to pick up Rick Carter and fly him to Worcester. The cost of the flight was paid by the late EBW. Is this correct?
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Post by hc1996 on Dec 11, 2023 15:52:21 GMT -5
I realize perhaps that we may be in line with other PL level FCS programs in terms of comp for the head coach, but when I learned on this board just how much we were paying I was rather shocked. People can value this however they want, but there is no doubt in my mind that the amount of work by the head coach at HC, Lehigh, Lafayette, etc. is worth a hell of a lot more than 250k. Just my two cents.
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Post by hc6774 on Dec 11, 2023 15:56:16 GMT -5
I believe a plane was sent to Ohio to pick up Rick Carter and fly him to Worcester. The cost of the flight was paid by the late EBW. Is this correct? Our classmate owed a share of private plane with other Worcester alums that they used for business trips. They loaned it to the college from time to time.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Dec 11, 2023 15:56:51 GMT -5
Don’t forget base v incentives/bonus can be a big deal in coaching. For example, in 2022 Cignetti’s base was ~500k at JMU but he made closer to 750k all in if I remember. Top FCS coaches that hit their bogey’s and collect a good share or all of their bonus pools make around ~400-450k IMO.
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Post by southernsader on Dec 11, 2023 16:45:20 GMT -5
I want a coach that wins. HC is not going to turn into a 'cesspool' or whatever no matter who the coach is. High academic types can apply to head the library. I want a football coach that wins. We all want to win....Toerper & Smith are the likely favorites & would presumably check that box. With that said, I don't think we retain James if Toerper is the HC....Weird dynamic having your ex-position coach jump you into the head chair after 2 years of coaching D3 football. So be it if so - not a reason not to hire Toerper, who would be a great hire IMO.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 11, 2023 16:54:41 GMT -5
I've been in the choir that you are preaching to for a number of years, perhaps because I was aware of the compensation many years (ever since I learned about federal form 990). That said, not speaking for Holy Cross, much less any FCS school, coach's salaries are also seen by faculty who may well have the thought that "hey, this is a college - an academic institution - and what I do is the primary purpose of the school and this coach makes 2, 3, 4 times what I make? That ain't isn't, (they are college professors after all) fair!" And, an argument could be made for that position because while we aren't in the entertainment business like P5 schools, compensation is truly a matter of priorities. Margaret Freije when "just" a professor was very highly compensated but from memory, didn't make what Ralph made but made more than Tom Gilmore even after he won the PL championship and scared eventual champs, Villanova. And then there's Vince's salary compared to his predecessor(s)!
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Post by hc1996 on Dec 11, 2023 17:18:48 GMT -5
I've been in the choir that you are preaching to for a number of years, perhaps because I was aware of the compensation many years (ever since I learned about federal form 990). That said, not speaking for Holy Cross, much less any FCS school, coach's salaries are also seen by faculty who may well have the thought that "hey, this is a college - an academic institution - and what I do is the primary purpose of the school and this coach makes 2, 3, 4 times what I make? That ain't isn't, (they are college professors after all) fair!" And, an argument could be made for that position because while we aren't in the entertainment business like P5 schools, compensation is truly a matter of priorities. Margaret Freije when "just" a professor was very highly compensated but from memory, didn't make what Ralph made but made more than Tom Gilmore even after he won the PL championship and scared eventual champs, Villanova. And then there's Vince's salary compared to his predecessor(s)! Sometimes when I find myself saying "damn, I wish I made that salary" I then quickly say to myself "well then hc1996, you should have chosen a different path".
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Post by matunuck on Dec 11, 2023 18:02:25 GMT -5
The last we should do is let the faculty decide what’s best for the school. No one is forcing them to stay at HC should they decide to leave for greener pastures.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 11, 2023 18:24:57 GMT -5
Oh, just stop that!! If it weren’t for our faculty, we’d still be stuck with that offensive Crusader mascot!! 😳
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 11, 2023 18:49:46 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, anyone know Smith's compensation/contract terms etc in E. Rutherford? Just wondering if it may play a factor in his decision to return to Mt St James. While I'm at, what do guys like Toerper, McGonagle etc make roughly as D3 HC's? Be curious what type of "out of the box" candidates may emerge. G5 FBS coordinators? Other current FCS HC's? Sean Kearney and Brett Nelson were rough equivalents of an FBS coordinator. That's a concept that understandably must be attractive to FBS Coordinators, to get their feet wet and make their beginner mistakes as head coach at a lower level. It worked with Duffner as a first time head coach but didn't with Sean and Brett. If I was Kit I wouldn't eliminate those candidates but I would try to leverage their ambition to be a head coach to protect Holy Cross by negotiating a low cost HC option to buy-out their contract if it turns out they aren't a good fit.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 11, 2023 23:13:19 GMT -5
Here is a coach....Santos to Holy Cross? He is from Mass originally and worked at a high academic school before UNH. I doubt Holy Cross can afford him though at 275k plus a state retirement openpayrolls.com/employee/richard-w-santos-11142Also for comparison, he got 110k as the OC at UNH in 2021. You have to think Holy Cross is paying around the same for the assistants.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 12, 2023 6:02:24 GMT -5
Here is a coach....Santos to Holy Cross? He is from Mass originally and worked at a high academic school before UNH. I doubt Holy Cross can afford him though at 275k plus a state retirement openpayrolls.com/employee/richard-w-santos-11142Also for comparison, he got 110k as the OC at UNH in 2021. You have to think Holy Cross is paying around the same for the assistants. Santos would make an excellent head coach at Holy Cross, IMHO. It would be an essentially lateral move for Santos so I don’t see it. (Although he may have noticed there was talk of him going from UNH to Columbia the same time there was talk of Chesney going from Holy Cross to Syracuse 🤔) Speaking of UNH grads from Mass, one could argue Dan Curran (Merrimack) might see it as a step up worth taking. He does check the box as a successful head coach and Holy Cross is well aware of his abilities. He did just sign an extension a few weeks ago so that may be unrealistic at this point.
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