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Post by bison137 on Jan 6, 2024 20:23:05 GMT -5
2024. I don’t think HC will EVER have a great b-ball team again. Don’t say”how did Colgate do it?” They just appear good because the PL sucks so bad. This coach may be able to get us back to .500 league wise. That’s it. So discouraging. Wrong on Colgate. Maybe they're down a bit this year versus the couple of seasons prior, but they were a very good mid-major team during their recent run. Correct. Here is Colgate’s rankings for the last six years, starting with 2019. This is where they rank out of about 360 D1 programs: 126 118 89 117 115 151 Among their wins are two double digit victories at Syracuse in 2022 and 2023.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jan 6, 2024 20:33:21 GMT -5
There is a pervasive culture of losing across our athletic program (with two exceptions) - there must be a serious proactive response for which ADKH is responsible to strategize - time is running out and I wish I was more hopeful we can turn the ship around Men's hockey is on the upswing too. I believe men's hoop will be good again within a few years. With some of the "minor" sports if they don't get a lot of financial support it's hard to have expectations too high.
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Post by gks on Jan 6, 2024 21:00:10 GMT -5
Let's be honest for a second.
Basketball is no longer HC's 'premiere' or whatever it was referred to as program. Football and even hockey IMO has moved ahead. There are three pages on the latest game and the third page is complaining.
PL basketball, for as much as we crush PL football, is terrible. The PL of the Willard era is like Greek mythology at this point.
Paulson might be an outstanding coach but who would want to play at any PL school? And even if you get talent to come they're gone in a year. Recruiting is impossible.
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Post by classof83 on Jan 6, 2024 21:44:53 GMT -5
In RW's last year with HC (2009), according the Ken Pom's rankings there were 344 NCAA D1 basketball programs - there are now 362. Heck, Lemoyne is now D1. Has the impact of more schools in D1 impacted HC and the PL schools by diluting the talent available.
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Post by hcnj on Jan 6, 2024 21:51:19 GMT -5
Wrong on Colgate. Maybe they're down a bit this year versus the couple of seasons prior, but they were a very good mid-major team during their recent run. Correct. Here is Colgate’s rankings for the last six years, starting with 2019. This is where they rank out of about 360 D1 programs: 126 118 89 117 115 151 Among their wins are two double digit victories at Syracuse in 2022 and 2023. I don't think being out of the top 100 every year and 89 in their best year makes them a "very good mid-major program". I actually think they were much better than 89 that one year and probably the adjoining year but your best team being 115-150 is not the gold standard for a very good program, and Colgate was clearly the best in the PL.
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Post by trimster on Jan 6, 2024 21:57:28 GMT -5
Let's be honest for a second. Basketball is no longer HC's 'premiere' or whatever it was referred to as program. Football and even hockey IMO has moved ahead. There are three pages on the latest game and the third page is complaining. PL basketball, for as much as we crush PL football, is terrible. The PL of the Willard era is like Greek mythology at this point. Paulson might be an outstanding coach but who would want to play at any PL school? And even if you get talent to come they're gone in a year. Recruiting is impossible. I think the approach right now to recruiting kids is to show them what HC can do for them if they never set foot on the court. It has to be about a lot more than hoops and it should be that way even with a successful hoop program. I think coach DP really gets that.
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Post by gks on Jan 6, 2024 22:15:43 GMT -5
Let's be honest for a second. Basketball is no longer HC's 'premiere' or whatever it was referred to as program. Football and even hockey IMO has moved ahead. There are three pages on the latest game and the third page is complaining. PL basketball, for as much as we crush PL football, is terrible. The PL of the Willard era is like Greek mythology at this point. Paulson might be an outstanding coach but who would want to play at any PL school? And even if you get talent to come they're gone in a year. Recruiting is impossible. I think the approach right now to recruiting kids is to show them what HC can do for them if they never set foot on the court. It has to be about a lot more than hoops and it should be that way even with a successful hoop program. I think coach DP really gets that. In a perfect world this would work. But these kids want to play basketball and they want to play it at the highest level possible. We as adults know that there's a whole lot of life ahead after college. PL hoops isn't attractive to the AAU circuit.
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Post by hcnj on Jan 6, 2024 22:21:43 GMT -5
What has happened to DeAndre Williams? Is he playing hurt? In his first six games he shot 10 for 16 on twos and 5 for 13 on threes. Since then he is 1 for 13 on twos and 5 for 21 on threes.... you're statistical background is excellent and AIR a math major. Small sample sizes create anomalistic data. Other than Nugent and to a lesser extent Singleton, our recruits were not generally highly acclaimed. Williams isn't a PG and I doubt he'll be a starting 2 guard at our level. He could develop and be a contributor on a decent team. I hope he's better. But these guys were all that coach Paulesen could get or inherited. And SOV, Tse gets minutes not because Paulsen thinks he's going to score but with no ready-now PG he's at least a PG who might get someone else set up. Anyone who thinks Williams, Batch, Singleton, Bo are PG solutions is dreaming IMO. I feel the same way every game about Wills and Ryan, if they're healthy get them in there as much as their play can justify.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 6, 2024 22:39:04 GMT -5
Correct. Here is Colgate’s rankings for the last six years, starting with 2019. This is where they rank out of about 360 D1 programs: 126 118 89 117 115 151 Among their wins are two double digit victories at Syracuse in 2022 and 2023. I don't think being out of the top 100 every year and 89 in their best year makes them a "very good mid-major program". I actually think they were much better than 89 that one year and probably the adjoining year but your best team being 115-150 is not the gold standard for a very good program, and Colgate was clearly the best in the PL. the great majority of the teams ahead of them are high majors, not mid majors
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Post by 78purple on Jan 6, 2024 23:01:00 GMT -5
Let's be honest for a second. Basketball is no longer HC's 'premiere' or whatever it was referred to as program. Football and even hockey IMO has moved ahead. There are three pages on the latest game and the third page is complaining. PL basketball, for as much as we crush PL football, is terrible. The PL of the Willard era is like Greek mythology at this point. Paulson might be an outstanding coach but who would want to play at any PL school? And even if you get talent to come they're gone in a year. Recruiting is impossible. I think the approach right now to recruiting kids is to show them what HC can do for them if they never set foot on the court. It has to be about a lot more than hoops and it should be that way even with a successful hoop program. I think coach DP really gets that. Which is why you have to decide what you want to be.......and now is the time.....Dayton, St Joe's, Fordham....or NESCAC ?? We probably have the right coach to lead us out of the wilderness, but ADKH has to take the bull by the horns ( as I think he has with the recent football decision ) and get us there
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 6, 2024 23:29:24 GMT -5
Kit went with experienced D-1 coaches who understand HC intimately with his hires of Paulsen and Curran. Paulsen was in one of HC 's best coaching duels with RW. Curran grew up in a household that worshipped Holy Cross. What would you like next in Kit's taking the bull by the horns?
I'm actually curious because I don't know what the logical next step is and I want HC Athletics to move ahead like the rest of us.
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Post by 78purple on Jan 6, 2024 23:49:34 GMT -5
Kit went with experienced D-1 coaches who understand HC intimately with his hires of Paulsen and Curran. Paulsen was in one of HC 's best coaching duels with RW. Curran grew up in a household that worshipped Holy Cross. What would you like next in Kit's taking the bull by the horns? I'm actually curious because I don't know what the logical next step is and I want HC Athletics to move ahead like the rest of us. I agree, he's off to an excellent start....but as far as basketball goes, changes HAVE to be made, within reason.......the association I suggested is not preposterous, and is certainly in keeping with our history........But I think if we stay in the PL, its a rabbit hole we can't climb out of ........We might as well declare what we are then....NESCAC.....although I think its optimistic to return to Potter/Vicens/Perry of my era ( although I don't know why ), something along the lines of the RW era is not too much to ask........the current situation is unacceptable
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 7, 2024 5:12:39 GMT -5
I have been bemoaning the inconsistency of freshmen all season long. Every one of the freshmen have had double digit games. Nugent had a solid game. Strictly speaking about scoring. every other freshman was shut out for the first 38 minutes, Other than Nugent, the entire freshmen class was pretty quiet today. They will have their ups and downs. When most of them are really down, that will be a loss. I really hope the kids grow up soon on With Wills dressed today, I was surprised to see Tse get what I assumed would be a healthy Wills' minutes What Tom said. I'm hoping that next year this year's frosh class will improve the way Caleb has this year. I'm also hoping that Boston and Green will eventually provide some needed confidence and swagger to the program (ala Keith and Torey from nearly a generation ago, ugh). That is missing right now. I'm thinking that AJ is still not 100%, but CDP wanted to see if he could give them a much needed spark yesterday.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 7, 2024 7:58:43 GMT -5
Right now they have 1 senior and 1 junior they can count on (one junior period!), and 1 sophomore who has struggled so far to adjust to a new coach/role, and has had to deal with opposing coaches who now know all about his ability to hit 3s in rapid fire fashion. That's 3 guys....not really a shock that the team is struggling like it has.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 7, 2024 8:37:40 GMT -5
Correct. Here is Colgate’s rankings for the last six years, starting with 2019. This is where they rank out of about 360 D1 programs: 126 118 89 117 115 151 Among their wins are two double digit victories at Syracuse in 2022 and 2023. I don't think being out of the top 100 every year and 89 in their best year makes them a "very good mid-major program". I actually think they were much better than 89 that one year and probably the adjoining year but your best team being 115-150 is not the gold standard for a very good program, and Colgate was clearly the best in the PL. We were around 100 the last time we were actually good in 06-07. I would have described that team as a "very good" mid-major program.
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Post by crusader1970 on Jan 7, 2024 8:38:12 GMT -5
Right now they have 1 senior and 1 junior they can count on (one junior period!), and 1 sophomore who has struggled so far to adjust to a new coach/role, and has had to deal with opposing coaches who now know all about his ability to hit 3s in rapid fire fashion. That's 3 guys....not really a shock that the team is struggling like it has. Totally agree.
While many have said that it is "hard to watch" this group play, I will continue to tune in. Why? Not so much to see wins....but to see the progress of the underclassmen in establishing a foundation and a style of play that next year's recruits can add to and build upon.
Hope. That's all we really have to hang our hat on right now.
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Post by hc1996 on Jan 7, 2024 9:25:49 GMT -5
Right now they have 1 senior and 1 junior they can count on (one junior period!), and 1 sophomore who has struggled so far to adjust to a new coach/role, and has had to deal with opposing coaches who now know all about his ability to hit 3s in rapid fire fashion. That's 3 guys....not really a shock that the team is struggling like it has. Totally agree.
While many have said that it is "hard to watch" this group play, I will continue to tune in. Why? Not so much to see wins....but to see the progress of the underclassmen in establishing a foundation and a style of play that next year's recruits can add to and build upon.
Hope. That's all we really have to hang our hat on right now.
We have to trust the process and give Paulsen time. Honestly guys if there are players reading this (maybe?) and seeing some of the things being said, I’d be pretty disappointed if I were them. They are young and inexperienced, but they are working hard. I’d feel pretty badly if they read this and walked away feeling like they don’t really have a lot of support.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 7, 2024 9:32:03 GMT -5
Well said, '96. There are things developing with this team that are positive, and IMHO, concentrating on the negatives that are still there does nothing for morale (of players or of fans). In the past there were times when our players appeared "lost" out there. That is no longer the case. Unless one is looking only for negatives, there are some good things to see...if a fan looks for them
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 7, 2024 9:39:56 GMT -5
Been tied up a bit cleaning snow and intended to post something like the above 3 immediate posts. They hit the right themes. As a fan/supporter of the basketball programs, it is indeed frustrating to watch BUT, a huge "but," it appears to me that the defense is coming together, perhaps not as quickly as we'd like, but definite progress. We still seem to be struggling offensively but as the guys gain experience, my hope is that too will fall into place but we were all warned from day one from DP that progress will take time. I don't think I ever recall a new coach saying right out of the gate to ignore the won/loss results and "look for progress." I think he knows what he's talking about. Yes, I will keep watching and attending home games too.
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Post by trimster on Jan 7, 2024 9:54:22 GMT -5
Kit went with experienced D-1 coaches who understand HC intimately with his hires of Paulsen and Curran. Paulsen was in one of HC 's best coaching duels with RW. Curran grew up in a household that worshipped Holy Cross. What would you like next in Kit's taking the bull by the horns? I'm actually curious because I don't know what the logical next step is and I want HC Athletics to move ahead like the rest of us. I don’t think there is a next logical step to be had or planned for that matter. HC is all in on the PL and I have full confidence that Dave Paulsen will get the ship turned around. It will take time.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 7, 2024 10:12:53 GMT -5
Not sure where the anti-PL critics realistically think we should migrate to whether basketball, football, full sport league but for me, the "big two" or "big three" sports going back to my student days are football and men's basketball and you can now throw in ladies basketball (I know that opens me up for criticism for the hockey fans on the board but JMO).
Here's the thing. In the late 60's, there were between 2,500 and 2,800 men enrolled at Holy Cross. While the school's enrollment has increased to 3,100 +/-, we actually have fewer, a lot fewer, male students. So, for men's sports, we are actually a smaller school than in my day and many other posters here.
Big East invitational days are way, waaaay, back in the rearview mirror. We are where we should be. Our goals should be, as always, to excel in everything including athletics - but at the appropriate level. To me, that's brining basketball back to the RW days and understanding that doesn't mean a national championship a la late 40's early 50's. In football, yes, I think an FCS national championship is possible, or at least routine national rankings like Villanova.
Ladies basketball, my hope is MM can get us to a level where we thought we'd be when BG got scholarships and thought we'd get a national ranking. Might be a bridge too far but we should certainly be and remain PL champs or contenders every year. No reason not to be.
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Post by mm67 on Jan 7, 2024 10:20:36 GMT -5
Not sure where the anti-PL critics realistically think we should migrate to whether basketball, football, full sport league but for me, the "big two" or "big three" sports going back to my student days are football and men's basketball and you can now throw in ladies basketball (I know that opens me up for criticism for the hockey fans on the board but JMO). Here's the thing. In the late 60's, there were between 2,500 and 2,800 men enrolled at Holy Cross. While the school's enrollment has increased to 3,100 +/-, we actually have fewer, a lot fewer, male students. So, for men's sports, we are actually a smaller school than in my day and many other posters here. Big East invitational days are way, waaaay, back in the rearview mirror. We are where we should be. Our goals should be, as always, to excel in everything including athletics - but at the appropriate level. To me, that's brining basketball back to the RW days and understanding that doesn't mean a national championship a la late 40's early 50's. In football, yes, I think an FCS national championship is possible, or at least routine national rankings like Villanova. Ladies basketball, my hope is MM can get us to a level where we thought we'd be when BG got scholarships and thought we'd get a national ranking. Might be a bridge too far but we should certainly be and remain PL champs or contenders every year. No reason not to be. Well said.
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Post by trimster on Jan 7, 2024 10:21:19 GMT -5
Not sure where the anti-PL critics realistically think we should migrate to whether basketball, football, full sport league but for me, the "big two" or "big three" sports going back to my student days are football and men's basketball and you can now throw in ladies basketball (I know that opens me up for criticism for the hockey fans on the board but JMO). Here's the thing. In the late 60's, there were between 2,500 and 2,800 men enrolled at Holy Cross. While the school's enrollment has increased to 3,100 +/-, we actually have fewer, a lot fewer, male students. So, for men's sports, we are actually a smaller school than in my day and many other posters here. Big East invitational days are way, waaaay, back in the rearview mirror. We are where we should be. Our goals should be, as always, to excel in everything including athletics - but at the appropriate level. To me, that's brining basketball back to the RW days and understanding that doesn't mean a national championship a la late 40's early 50's. In football, yes, I think an FCS national championship is possible, or at least routine national rankings like Villanova. Ladies basketball, my hope is MM can get us to a level where we thought we'd be when BG got scholarships and thought we'd get a national ranking. Might be a bridge too far but we should certainly be and remain PL champs or contenders every year. No reason not to be. Very reasonable and realistic thoughts.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 7, 2024 10:31:46 GMT -5
Been tied up a bit cleaning snow and intended to post something like the above 3 immediate posts. They hit the right themes. As a fan/supporter of the basketball programs, it is indeed frustrating to watch BUT, a huge "but," it appears to me that the defense is coming together, perhaps not as quickly as we'd like, but definite progress. We still seem to be struggling offensively but as the guys gain experience, my hope is that too will fall into place but we were all warned from day one from DP that progress will take time. I don't think I ever recall a new coach saying right out of the gate to ignore the won/loss results and "look for progress." I think he knows what he's talking about. Yes, I will keep watching and attending home games too. Same thing as some previous games, although the dropoff was not as dramatic. Allowed 23 points in the first half, 47 in the second. Some of that, of course, was Army hitting the same 3 balls they missed in the first half. Some wasn't. Ironically, HC's offense picked up when the defense sagged a bit. First half was worse than bad- 9 turnovers and 0-7 from 3 point range (at least 5 of them were good looks, not beat-the-shot-clock heaves). Foul shooting is a joke. Incredibly, Holy Cross is NOT last in the league in that statistic. patriotleague.org/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2023&#team-stats
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 7, 2024 10:56:53 GMT -5
As a fan/supporter of the basketball programs, it is indeed frustrating to watch BUT, a huge "but," it appears to me that the defense is coming together, perhaps not as quickly as we'd like, but definite progress. . . . The numbers, to date, beg to disagree. D1 games only.
Opp EFG% (Rank) 2022-23 51.8% (254th) 2023-24 54.3% (327th)
DR% 2022-23 71.0% (287th) 2023-24 69.4% (284th)
Opp TO% 2022-23 17.1% (219th) 2023-24 12.5% (358th)
Defensive Efficiency (unadjusted) 2022-23. 103.7 (252nd) 2023-24. 115.4 (353rd)
Opp Effective Possession Ratio* 2022-23. 95.9 (270th) 2023-24. 101.6 (358th)
Extra Scoring Chances per Game** 2022-23. -2.9 (308th) 2023-24. -5.9 (352nd)
* Opp EPR = (Opp Possessions + OR - TO)/Possessions. More simply, shot opportunities per possession
** Extra Scoring Chances = (OR + Opp TO - Opp OR - TO)
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