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Post by trimster on Jan 7, 2024 10:58:37 GMT -5
Been tied up a bit cleaning snow and intended to post something like the above 3 immediate posts. They hit the right themes. As a fan/supporter of the basketball programs, it is indeed frustrating to watch BUT, a huge "but," it appears to me that the defense is coming together, perhaps not as quickly as we'd like, but definite progress. We still seem to be struggling offensively but as the guys gain experience, my hope is that too will fall into place but we were all warned from day one from DP that progress will take time. I don't think I ever recall a new coach saying right out of the gate to ignore the won/loss results and "look for progress." I think he knows what he's talking about. Yes, I will keep watching and attending home games too. Same thing as some previous games, although the dropoff was not as dramatic. Allowed 23 points in the first half, 47 in the second. Some of that, of course, was Army hitting the same 3 balls they missed in the first half. Some wasn't. Ironically, HC's offense picked up when the defense sagged a bit. First half was worse than bad- 9 turnovers and 0-7 from 3 point range (at least 5 of them were good looks, not beat-the-shot-clock heaves). Foul shooting is a joke. Incredibly, Holy Cross is NOT last in the league in that statistic. patriotleague.org/stats.aspx?path=mbball&year=2023&#team-stats Looks like we do a poor job on free throw defense as well.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 7, 2024 11:00:00 GMT -5
Support them 100%. Games have been painful to watch, but these are times when players and coaches need the support the most.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 7, 2024 11:10:59 GMT -5
I also think fans need a place where they can blow off a little steam, as long as they stay classy and dont attack players. I dont think anyone has done this, in all honesty.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 7, 2024 11:19:15 GMT -5
Good point, NAD. Other than saying "this team stinks" (which some players might well take personally) I have not seen personal attacks against individuals .
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 7, 2024 11:22:02 GMT -5
Foul shooting is a joke. Incredibly, Holy Cross is NOT last in the league country . . . But we're getting there.
FT%, 350th FTA/G 356th FTR. 353rd % of Points from FT 358th
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 7, 2024 11:31:33 GMT -5
As a fan/supporter of the basketball programs, it is indeed frustrating to watch BUT, a huge "but," it appears to me that the defense is coming together, perhaps not as quickly as we'd like, but definite progress. . . . The numbers, to date, beg to disagree. D1 games only.
Opp EFG% (Rank) 2022-23 51.8% (254th) 2023-24 54.3% (327th)
DR% 2022-23 71.0% (287th) 2023-24 69.4% (284th)
Opp TO% 2022-23 17.1% (219th) 2023-24 12.5% (358th)
Defensive Efficiency (unadjusted) 2022-23. 103.7 (252nd) 2023-24. 115.4 (353rd)
Opp Effective Possession Ratio* 2022-23. 95.9 (270th) 2023-24. 101.6 (358th)
Extra Scoring Chances per Game** 2022-23. -2.9 (308th) 2023-24. -5.9 (352nd)
* Opp EPR = (Opp Possessions + OR - TO)/Possessions. More simply, shot opportunities per possession
** Extra Scoring Chances = (OR + Opp TO - Opp OR - TO)
Woo, an almost perfect example of my favorite math book (an oxymoron perhaps?) "How to Lie with Statistics." My post was intended to mean from our first game THIS SEASON, to how we are doing 15 games into THIS SEASON, not compared to last season. My apologies for not being clearer in my post/intent. And my observation is by my inexpert eye rather than stats. As I often tell me Director of Data Analysis son, "data in itself is worthless, unless and until you convert it to information." And, I stipulate that you can easily come back and say that my inexpert observation is probably even less valuable than the stats you noted. Somewhat more seriously, how many freshmen were getting the minutes this season compared to last season? Are your stats comparing 23-24 15 games (less non D-1) to 22-23 full season when the players have "matured.?"
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Post by hchoops on Jan 7, 2024 11:55:42 GMT -5
The one big factor between this and last season is Gerrale Gates. On both sides of the ball, inc Free throws, he is irreplaceable. Even a major improvement in coaching cannot make up for a presence that Gerrale presented each game for the entire game.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 7, 2024 11:57:51 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending like non-D1 games were not played? They are played (as they are by virtually all D1 teams, certainly by PL teams) and for HC the results do count. Please understand that "custom" stats which exclude some selected opponents will be ignored by many . If that is the case, you are not making a point. This seems to go well with the belief of some people that if we cannot currently beat PL teams, we should play tougher opponents to improve our program. I guess they bellieve losses against better opponents will be more positive in some way. Might "better losses" help recruiting? Possible, but I doubt it. Does showing all opponents and the results as HC games hurt HC? I don't see how.
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Post by trimster on Jan 7, 2024 12:00:59 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending like non-D1 games were not played? They are played (as they are by virtually all D1 teams, certainly by PL teams) and for HC the results do count. Please understand that "custom" stats which exclude some selected opponents will be ignored by many . If that is the case, you are not making a point. This seems to go well with the belief of some people that if we cannot currently beat PL teams, we should play tougher opponents to improve our program. I guess they bellieve losses against better opponents will be more positive in some way. Might "better losses" help recruiting? Possible, but I doubt it. Does showing all opponents and the results as HC games hurt HC? I don't see how. The stats from D3 games, imho, are meaningless. Frre throw % is one exception.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 7, 2024 12:02:12 GMT -5
. Paulsen was in one of HC 's best coaching duels with RW. Think you may be thinking of Flannery. DP coaced only one year vs RW, and Bucknell that year had its worst season in at least 27 years.. Certainly there was no coaching duel.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jan 7, 2024 12:08:30 GMT -5
The one big factor between this and last season is Gerrale Gates. On both sides of the ball, inc Free throws, he is irreplaceable. Even a major improvement in coaching cannot make up for a presence that Gerrale presented each game for the entire game. You've hit the nail on the head here. Without Gates there is no serious offensive threat. Batchelder and others have suffered in his absence. Gates will have my eternal respect for hanging in there through tough times and bringing his "A" game every day.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 7, 2024 12:09:25 GMT -5
Can we stop pretending like non-D1 games were not played? They are played (as they are by virtually all D1 teams, certainly by PL teams) and for HC the results do count. Please understand that "custom" stats which exclude some selected opponents will be ignored by many . If that is the case, you are not making a point. This seems to go well with the belief of some people that if we cannot currently beat PL teams, we should play tougher opponents to improve our program. I guess they bellieve losses against better opponents will be more positive in some way. Might "better losses" help recruiting? Possible, but I doubt it. Does showing all opponents and the results as HC games hurt HC? I don't see how. The stats from D3 games, imho, are meaningless. Frre throw % is one exception. HC players compiled those stats in those games therefore they have meaning. Free throw % is one of those stats. I guess taking some stats from those games and counting them is acceptable to you, if it seems bit ingenuous. Why not count only stats against those teams with winning records? Oops, that might allow our one (yup only one) non-D1 opponent in there.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 7, 2024 12:13:01 GMT -5
Put me in the camp of not caring about the stats against Elms.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 7, 2024 12:23:16 GMT -5
Gerrale should be in the HC Hall of Fame
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Post by Tom on Jan 7, 2024 12:42:46 GMT -5
At the mid major level, experience is a major factor.
During the conference schedule, 40 percent of HC's minutes are from upperclassmen. (thank goodness for transfers who made up half of those minutes)
Army had 60 percent of their minutes come from upper classmen. Bucknell got 70 percent of their minutes from upper classmen.
------------------------------------ This is not the be all and end all, However, I think that is a statistically significant disparity. There is not a short term answer to this issue. Job one will be to stop the revolving door. Part of rebuilding Rome will involve the five freshmen (or in our current environment at least four) graduating from HC in 2027. Experience is not the whole issue, but for a squad with little margin of error, it's hard to start most games at a disadvantage. I'm not one to say you need to wait until a coach has his own players. I am one to say a coach needs veteran experience
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 7, 2024 12:44:45 GMT -5
1. Here are the game logs this year. If there's evidence of steady, defensive progress to date, I don't see it. Obviously, we'll get a better picture by year's end. www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/holy-cross/men/2024-gamelogs-advanced.html2. My eyes don't tell me a different story. Yesterday, for example, our rotations - especially to close out deep - were awful, and were lucky not to have paid a higher price. (Unsurprisingly, our Opp 3FG% is 38.7%, much worse than last year, and 352nd nationally). 3. For those who believe our biggest problems are at the offensive end, they may be disappointed to learn that our offensive efficiency, EFG%, 2FG%, OR%, and effective possession ratio are all better than last year - with all these freshmen and no Gates.
Imho, we have been, thus far this season, a bad defensive team that doesn't turn opponents over or take care of the glass at that end, giving said opponents an average of six extra scoring chances per game, which they are taking advantage of beyond the arc and at the free throw line.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 7, 2024 12:58:46 GMT -5
We have been bad on defense which often happens to a freshman dominated team without any strong inside presence. These are not excuses, but reality. We still should be better. Offensively, just because we are statistically better than last season, that is not saying much. Both years are bad. Stats do not tell all. For example, the stats say we had only 11 turnovers yesterday. They do not say that some were at the worst times in the second half when we had a chance to get within a possession of the lead.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 7, 2024 13:19:27 GMT -5
. Paulsen was in one of HC 's best coaching duels with RW. Think you may be thinking of Flannery. DP coaced only one year vs RW, and Bucknell that year had its worst season in at least 27 years.. Certainly there was no coaching duel. I remember Flannery's launch off the bench onto the court in the Hart Center. That must have been the height of the rivalry. So DP and RW didn't overlap much but it's still fair to say Dave understands the PL and HC more intimately than Sean Kearney or Brett Nelson. I was also at the Williams victory over Holy Cross which pitted DP vs RW. If he can get the Crusaders playing together as tightly as the Ephs did that night we'll be in business.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 7, 2024 14:58:05 GMT -5
For those who like to reference the good old days, the 1954 NIT team would be ranked 336th in team free throw percentage.
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Post by hcnj on Jan 7, 2024 15:08:24 GMT -5
I don't think being out of the top 100 every year and 89 in their best year makes them a "very good mid-major program". I actually think they were much better than 89 that one year and probably the adjoining year but your best team being 115-150 is not the gold standard for a very good program, and Colgate was clearly the best in the PL. the great majority of the teams ahead of them are high majors, not mid majors right, but I consider a "very good" mid-major program to be more competitive than 100-150 vis a vis all programs. The only measuring stick worthwhile is comparing yourself to the broader pool but recognize you and others might not agree .
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Post by hcnj on Jan 7, 2024 15:16:57 GMT -5
The one big factor between this and last season is Gerrale Gates. On both sides of the ball, inc Free throws, he is irreplaceable. Even a major improvement in coaching cannot make up for a presence that Gerrale presented each game for the entire game. very true and although unfashionable to say it Dorsey found a way to be a capable point and a respectable defender. Only time will tell if CDP believes in perimeter dominant teams or is just making do with what he has or could get.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 7, 2024 15:23:42 GMT -5
Have to say, Dorsey hasn't yet been replaced .
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Post by timholycross on Jan 7, 2024 16:20:13 GMT -5
Especially w/Bo hors-de-combat. I thought he played well defensively this season although under par offensively.
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Post by trimster on Jan 7, 2024 16:34:04 GMT -5
Put me in the camp of not caring about the stats against Elms. Out of curiosity, I reviewed PL games vs. D3 teams. Three teams didn't play any D3 games. Nine games were played and if you remove the outlier, (AWP defeated someone by 8), the other 8 games were decided by 40 points on average. What is the point in scheduling these games. If you want a tuneup before conference play, go find a D2 opponent. At least it is 2 rosters of scholarship players facing each other. BTW, 3 games were decided by 78, 58 and 51 points.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 7, 2024 16:47:34 GMT -5
Have to say, Dorsey hasn't yet been replaced . True- Occasionally on the court Off the court was a different story from what I understand
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