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Post by gks on Jan 9, 2024 7:13:37 GMT -5
The table is set for continued success under Coach Curran, and expectations/perceptions are at an appropriate level from what I can see. There aren't extenuating circumstances with scholarships that Coaches Vaas and Raynor contended with. The issues with redshirts and the AI are real but as was proven by HC playing SDSU tougher than any other team in the playoffs the last two years, nowhere near the obstacle of fielding teams without athletic scholarships was. NIL could end up being the biggest obstacle between HC and a national championship and coaches are not supposed to be involved in that as I understand it. HC football was chock full of 5th years in 2022 and 2023. 2022 proved how valuable 5th years are.
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Post by mm67 on Jan 9, 2024 7:29:55 GMT -5
There is little doubt older 5th & 6th year more experienced players would be better than younger less mature players. But better is not necessarily better. Quality of players is not the issue. Underlying values & degree of emphasis on sports is the controlling dynamic. There are things more important than winning a football game. Hope & expect the Pl & HC continue to reject non-medical redshirting & other similar moves.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jan 9, 2024 7:50:16 GMT -5
This thread is "at West Point" under Men's Basketball. We seem to have gone adrift.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 9, 2024 8:22:21 GMT -5
There is little doubt older 5th & 6th year more experienced players would be better than younger less mature players. But better is not necessarily better. Quality of players is not the issue. Underlying values & degree of emphasis on sports is the controlling dynamic. There are things more important than winning a football game. Hope & expect the Pl & HC continue to reject non-medical redshirting & other similar moves. You beat this drum more than hc87 does the Big East miss. But, while we are on the topic, it's a real tragedy how Jacob Dobbs and Peter Oliver were such jocks that stained the Holy Cross name.
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Post by gks on Jan 9, 2024 9:14:40 GMT -5
There is little doubt older 5th & 6th year more experienced players would be better than younger less mature players. But better is not necessarily better. Quality of players is not the issue. Underlying values & degree of emphasis on sports is the controlling dynamic. There are things more important than winning a football game. Hope & expect the Pl & HC continue to reject non-medical redshirting & other similar moves. You beat this drum more than hc87 does the Big East miss. But, while we are on the topic, it's a real tragedy how Jacob Dobbs and Peter Oliver were such jocks that stained the Holy Cross name. Hopefully these folks that think college is four years and out feel the same about regular, non-athlete students. Graduate in four years or you're out the door. Don't care if you have academic concerns, don't care if you have financial concerns. It's a ridiculous, short-sighted argument.
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Post by mm67 on Jan 9, 2024 9:47:29 GMT -5
SOV & gks I did not bring it up but was merely responding to my fellow alum gks who like others keep "beating the drum" for redshirting and greater emphasis on football. Unfortunately neither of you expressed any understanding of my point . Thankfully, the leadership of HC gets it. Peace.
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Post by gks on Jan 9, 2024 10:10:33 GMT -5
SOV & gks I did not bring it up but was merely responding to my fellow alum gks who like others keep "beating the drum" for redshirting and greater emphasis on football. Unfortunately neither of you expressed any understanding of my point . Thankfully, the leadership of HC gets it. Peace. First of all I am not an alum. I've been a fan of HC football since the early 80s. You didn't answer the question. If you want student-athletes to be done in four years do you think the same for regular students? Should the entire student body be on the clock the day they enter HC or any school? And yes a higher emphasis on football is a good thing. Just as a higher emphasis on theater, music, etc is.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 9, 2024 10:46:27 GMT -5
So, did I miss a transfer portal for theater or music majors? NILs going to our performing arts students? While he can certainly speak for himself, I believe his point is under normal circumstances all students, athletes and non-athletes should be expected to graduate in 4 years at Holy Cross. There can and will be exceptions, including injuries or illness. Within my family, one graduated in 5 years for academic reasons. I know of current non-athletes that it will take 5 years to graduate but due to illness. A kid who caught Covid or was in an accident and hospitalized should get another year or more. Just because the football or basketball program would benefit for holding a kid back is putting the cart before the horse. Exceptions, not the norm, should be the "right call" IMO. Again, one of the things I learned from Holy Cross is that there are very few things that are simple yes/no, black/white (they unlearned what the nuns taught us! )
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Post by mm67 on Jan 9, 2024 11:01:20 GMT -5
SOV & gks I did not bring it up but was merely responding to my fellow alum gks who like others keep "beating the drum" for redshirting and greater emphasis on football. Unfortunately neither of you expressed any understanding of my point . Thankfully, the leadership of HC gets it. Peace. First of all I am not an alum. I've been a fan of HC football since the early 80s. You didn't answer the question. If you want student-athletes to be done in four years do you think the same for regular students? Should the entire student body be on the clock the day they enter HC or any school? And yes a higher emphasis on football is a good thing. Just as a higher emphasis on theater, music, etc is. Welcome aboard. It is wonderful for you to be a fan and join on this board.TBT I did not answer your comment because it was a gotcha' which unfortunately did not relate to my point. (As usual Sader 1970 said it better than I.)Let me be clear. My comment was based on my understanding of the underlying values which bear upon the role of athletics & football in particular at HC. A greater emphasis on athletics in terms of admission standards, money, roster size, conference affiliation, practice time, & yes, redshirting among others IMO would not serve the underlying values of limited athletics & excellent academics above all which have served as the underpinnings of The Cross since before my time in the '60's. I understand Crossports is made of folks many of whom are more sports first oriented which is totally understandable. More importantly just as I appreciate their love of HC shared by alum posters I appreciate your love of HC & fandom even more. Although we may not always agree we are truly brothers in spirit. Peace
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 9, 2024 12:03:52 GMT -5
You beat this drum more than hc87 does the Big East miss. But, while we are on the topic, it's a real tragedy how Jacob Dobbs and Peter Oliver were such jocks that stained the Holy Cross name. Hopefully these folks that think college is four years and out feel the same about regular, non-athlete students. Graduate in four years or you're out the door. Don't care if you have academic concerns, don't care if you have financial concerns. It's a ridiculous, short-sighted argument. It is indeed ridiculous argument and one I have never heard - perhaps that is why. I am familiar, however, with many colleges that pressure students to stay for 5 years (and schedule courses to make that a requirement). It makes more money for a college when it is done to non-scholarship athletes or students. This has nothing to do with the needs of students, only those of the institution itself.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 9, 2024 13:30:38 GMT -5
The table is set for continued success under Coach Curran, and expectations/perceptions are at an appropriate level from what I can see. There aren't extenuating circumstances with scholarships that Coaches Vaas and Raynor contended with. The issues with redshirts and the AI are real but as was proven by HC playing SDSU tougher than any other team in the playoffs the last two years, nowhere near the obstacle of fielding teams without athletic scholarships was. NIL could end up being the biggest obstacle between HC and a national championship and coaches are not supposed to be involved in that as I understand it. HC football was chock full of 5th years in 2022 and 2023. 2022 proved how valuable 5th years are. What did 2023 prove? I can't tell if it was mostly Lady Luck balancing the way the ball bounced after a perfect 11-0 season or if strains on roster balance over five classes had any significance.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 9, 2024 13:53:24 GMT -5
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Post by hcnj on Jan 9, 2024 20:12:50 GMT -5
right, another thread that's drilled itself into the center of the earth
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