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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 7, 2024 18:31:48 GMT -5
Have to say, Dorsey hasn't yet been replaced . Well, if past is prologue . . . in his second season at Bucknell, DP brought in Bryan Cohen, who was Defensive PoY three straight years, And when Cohen left, he was replaced by another plus defender, Steve Kaspar.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 7, 2024 18:44:09 GMT -5
Have to say, Dorsey hasn't yet been replaced . Well, if past is prologue . . . in his second season at Bucknell, DP brought in Bryan Cohen, who was Defensive PoY three straight years, And when Cohen left, he was replaced by another plus defender, Steve Kaspar. Cohen was a Pat Flannery recruit.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 7, 2024 18:59:04 GMT -5
And Tyler kolak was a Paulsen recruit
He knows what he is doing, but needs to deal with the sins and incompetence of Nelson.
Boston and Green are playershe watched and recruited as much as Tyler kolak, and Hare/Richard were not far behind. As we all know Kolk is a potential player of the year.
He has maybe six to seven athletes, and one or two pure basketball players on this roster.
It will self correct in the next year plus
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Post by Tom on Jan 8, 2024 9:22:28 GMT -5
The one big factor between this and last season is Gerrale Gates. On both sides of the ball, inc Free throws, he is irreplaceable. Even a major improvement in coaching cannot make up for a presence that Gerrale presented each game for the entire game. very true and although unfashionable to say it Dorsey found a way to be a capable point and a respectable defender. Only time will tell if CDP believes in perimeter dominant teams or is just making do with what he has or could get. Going further down this tangent, this post made me curious and I can find nothing suggesting Dorsey has been in a game this season. Perhaps, and hopefully, even though he is listed on Campbell's roster he is sitting this season out as a function of his second transfer
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 8, 2024 9:33:41 GMT -5
We scored nineteen points in the first half, and can't make free throws. You seriously can get kids at the park to play better basketball.
Is the appeal of A) an HC diploma, B) having to do arduous school work for four years, C) travel on a bus across Pennsylvania, and D) not get paid all worth it? Add to the mix: are the kids who can play basketball "smart" enough to get into HC?
Forget the last four years (the seemingly arbitrary time period prior posters are using to show progress/records/etc.)... HC basketball has been virtually embarrassing since RW left.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 8, 2024 9:41:10 GMT -5
Not every year after RW. The HC "road warriors" did win a PL tournament title and an NCAA game in the not too distant past.
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Post by trimster on Jan 8, 2024 9:48:47 GMT -5
We scored nineteen points in the first half, and can't make free throws. You seriously can get kids at the park to play better basketball. Is the appeal of A) an HC diploma, B) having to do arduous school work for four years, C) travel on a bus across Pennsylvania, and D) not get paid all worth it? Add to the mix: are the kids who can play basketball "smart" enough to get into HC? Forget the last four years (the seemingly arbitrary time period prior posters are using to show progress/records/etc.)... HC basketball has been virtually embarrassing since RW left. Record post RW is 166-274 for all games played. Hopefully DP can prove Ralph wasn’t a unicorn.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 8, 2024 9:58:36 GMT -5
Not every year after RW. The HC "road warriors" did win a PL tournament title and an NCAA game in the not too distant past. Play-in-game doesn't have the same flavor, but we won't argue that here.
I remember that team well. Besides sharing a first name and a number (#22) with Champion, I liked his game and attitude. I was absolutely stone cold sober (not) at Stout FiDi watching that game. Even that season, the team was 15-20 overall (seems like most of us would PAY for that this year), including only 5-13 in league play (does not include the four straight PLT wins).
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 8, 2024 9:58:48 GMT -5
Avg KenPom (NCSOS). Machine groomed, packed powder . . .
Milan Brown (5 years) - 218 (168)
Bill Carmody (4 years) - 257 (224)
Brett Nelson (4 years) - 335 (278)
2023/24 (as of Jan 8) - 356 (288)
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 8, 2024 10:10:55 GMT -5
Avg KenPom (NCSOS). Machine groomed, packed powder . . . Milan Brown (5 years) - 218 (168) Bill Carmody (4 years) - 257 (224) Brett Nelson (4 years) - 335 (278) 2023/24 (as of Jan 8) - 356 (288) Wild to think that FHCMB has been the best coach we've had (not including HCDO) since RW.
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Post by crusader1970 on Jan 8, 2024 10:29:54 GMT -5
Both Brown and Carmody had their pluses and minuses.
Milan was a terrific recruiter who lacked game coaching skills.
Carmody brought in a few good players but quite a few lemons. His game coaching skills were pretty good.
Both were fine gentlemen.
Nelson.....well let's not go there.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 8, 2024 10:50:34 GMT -5
Not every year after RW. The HC "road warriors" did win a PL tournament title and an NCAA game in the not too distant past. To re-use a prior expression, THIS tournament was a "unicorn" tourney. I won't re-post my conversation with Coach Carmody about his concern/lack of concern with losing those seniors.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 8, 2024 10:56:41 GMT -5
We scored nineteen points in the first half, and can't make free throws. You seriously can get kids at the park to play better basketball. Is the appeal of A) an HC diploma, B) having to do arduous school work for four years, C) travel on a bus across Pennsylvania, and D) not get paid all worth it? Add to the mix: are the kids who can play basketball "smart" enough to get into HC? Forget the last four years (the seemingly arbitrary time period prior posters are using to show progress/records/etc.)... HC basketball has been virtually embarrassing since RW left. I thought HC had moments when Milan was running the show. Not enough of them, of course; but not embarrassing by any means. And that nucleus* figured out how to make it work under Carmody's system, even if only briefly. *IIRC Eric Green was the missing piece that showed up at the end of the season; the W-L for that year overall would have been a lot better if he hadn't blown his knee out at the end of the previous year.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 8, 2024 11:22:39 GMT -5
Both Brown and Carmody had their pluses and minuses.
Milan was a terrific recruiter who lacked game coaching skills.
Carmody brought in a few good players but quite a few lemons. His game coaching skills were pretty good.
Both were fine gentlemen.
Nelson.....well let's not go there.
If you look at what the roster might have looked like had Milan not been fired after the 2014-15 season, his in-game coaching ineptitude may not have mattered. Here are some of the key pieces that would have been on the 2016-17 roster --
Alexander, Champion, and Thompson as seniors.
Floyd and Jahaad Proctor as sophomores.
Andrew Kostecka as a freshman.
The combination of Floyd, Proctor, and Kostecka in the PL would have been a true "big three."
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Post by mm67 on Jan 8, 2024 11:45:04 GMT -5
Brown - inept in- game coaching. Carmody - in-game coaching good. Very interesting. W-L records do count, no?
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Post by Tom on Jan 8, 2024 11:56:25 GMT -5
Both Brown and Carmody had their pluses and minuses.
Milan was a terrific recruiter who lacked game coaching skills.
Carmody brought in a few good players but quite a few lemons. His game coaching skills were pretty good.
Both were fine gentlemen.
Nelson.....well let's not go there.
If you look at what the roster might have looked like had Milan not been fired after the 2014-15 season, his in-game coaching ineptitude may not have mattered. Here are some of the key pieces that would have been on the 2016-17 roster --
Alexander, Champion, and Thompson as seniors.
Floyd and Jahaad Proctor as sophomores.
Andrew Kostecka as a freshman.
The combination of Floyd, Proctor, and Kostecka in the PL would have been a true "big three." There is an assumption that these players would have reached their potential under the old system. Looking at Malcolm Miller's professional career vs college career, I'm not sure that's a valid assumption
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Post by mm67 on Jan 8, 2024 12:17:24 GMT -5
I did not agree with Carmody's deemphasis on rebounding & his toreador defense. I anticipated Princeton -style basketball at HC, although not at the same level. Never happened. Milan's teams always seemed that they should have been better. Respect both men.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 8, 2024 12:20:42 GMT -5
There is also the assumption that Proctor would have stated at HC. Even Kostecka could have transferred
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 8, 2024 12:28:53 GMT -5
I sometimes wonder if Milan could have been here 7-8 years, had Dick Regan went with him instead of Sean Kearney. I don't think the bottom would have fallen out the way it did with SK - there were too many good players on that 09-10 squad. Milan did seem to get more comfortable/start to hit his recruiting stride after 3 years or so.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 8, 2024 12:42:38 GMT -5
There is also the assumption that Proctor would have stated at HC. Even Kostecka could have transferred Doubtful they would have left. Everybody Milan brought in stayed and graduated from Holy Cross, except Mitch Hahn (after MB was let go). That was the culture Brown inherited and reinforced.
Carmody and Nelson . . . not so much.
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Post by mm67 on Jan 8, 2024 13:46:51 GMT -5
As regard to HC coaching. Some of us, myself included, have definitely let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Can anyone think of any good coaches who were fired or simply left the program due to the perception they were not good enough?
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Post by Tom on Jan 8, 2024 15:24:15 GMT -5
As regard to HC coaching. Some of us, myself included, have definitely let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Can anyone think of any good coaches who were fired or simply left the program due to the perception they were not good enough? Since I have been watching HC hoops, there have only been four coaches who were fired/not renewed: Coaches Raynor, Kearney, Brown, and Nelson. I don't think anyone is putting Coach Nelson or Kearney in that category. Coach Raynor started out at the middle of the pack and HC dropped to near the bottom of the pack. He did have one run to the PL final (losing to Colgate with future NBA'er Foyle). I would not say he was "good, but not good enough" Coach Brown was always led middle of the pack squads that never seriously contended for the top spot and normally had early exits in the PL tourney. Right now, middle of the pack sounds pretty good. I thought his fate was sealed when it looked like he was turning the corner in his 4th season - came in 3rd and finally got a PL tourney win on a squad with one senior (although a darn good one) but nosedived in year 5 instead of building on success. I would say he was an average (not good) coach that was let go because of the perception he was not good enough. Of the four coaches let go in the last 50 years, I would say Coach Brown is the only one about which someone might make your argument. But that someone would not be me
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Post by mm67 on Jan 8, 2024 17:58:18 GMT -5
As regard to HC coaching. Some of us, myself included, have definitely let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Can anyone think of any good coaches who were fired or simply left the program due to the perception they were not good enough? Since I have been watching HC hoops, there have only been four coaches who were fired/not renewed: Coaches Raynor, Kearney, Brown, and Nelson. I don't think anyone is putting Coach Nelson or Kearney in that category. Coach Raynor started out at the middle of the pack and HC dropped to near the bottom of the pack. He did have one run to the PL final (losing to Colgate with future NBA'er Foyle). I would not say he was "good, but not good enough" Coach Brown was always led middle of the pack squads that never seriously contended for the top spot and normally had early exits in the PL tourney. Right now, middle of the pack sounds pretty good. I thought his fate was sealed when it looked like he was turning the corner in his 4th season - came in 3rd and finally got a PL tourney win on a squad with one senior (although a darn good one) but nosedived in year 5 instead of building on success. I would say he was an average (not good) coach that was let go because of the perception he was not good enough. Of the four coaches let go in the last 50 years, I would say Coach Brown is the only one about which someone might make your argument. But that someone would not be me Good on target points. Personally, I've noticed so many of us have heightened expectations in part driven by mythologizing the past and most definitely past glory. For instance the Carter/Duffner era was glorious but it was an anomaly. It is not fair to expect a coach to even approach that standard. The same could be said for Coach Chesney. I could easily see some future alums calling for the firing of a future HC coach, a fine coach, a very good coach but one who does not reach the success of Duffner or Chesney. HC had good basketball coaches with winning percentages but were heavily criticized for not reaching the heights of Roy Lennig(sp?) or Buster Sheery. I know. I was one of the critics in my youth. But, with age comes perspective.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 8, 2024 19:12:29 GMT -5
The table is set for continued success under Coach Curran, and expectations/perceptions are at an appropriate level from what I can see. There aren't extenuating circumstances with scholarships that Coaches Vaas and Raynor contended with. The issues with redshirts and the AI are real but as was proven by HC playing SDSU tougher than any other team in the playoffs the last two years, nowhere near the obstacle of fielding teams without athletic scholarships was.
NIL could end up being the biggest obstacle between HC and a national championship and coaches are not supposed to be involved in that as I understand it.
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Post by mm67 on Jan 8, 2024 19:23:40 GMT -5
The table is set for continued success under Coach Curran, and expectations/perceptions are at an appropriate level from what I can see. There aren't extenuating circumstances with scholarships that Coaches Vaas and Raynor contended with. The issues with redshirts and the AI are real but as was proven by HC playing SDSU tougher than any other team in the playoffs the last two years, nowhere near the obstacle of fielding teams without athletic scholarships was. NIL could end up being the biggest obstacle between HC and a national championship and coaches are not supposed to be involved in that as I understand it. FWIW, I share your optimism. Thanks for helping to soften my apprehension.
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