|
Post by matunuck on Oct 4, 2017 8:59:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Oct 4, 2017 9:37:00 GMT -5
For us without a subscription, could someone with one please briefly summarize ? Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 4, 2017 18:59:10 GMT -5
Surprisingly hard to find any source that is not directly linked to the WSJ, particularly as the rankings have been out a week. I found this from Drexel. 1054 colleges and universities were ranked.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Oct 5, 2017 8:06:20 GMT -5
The available 2017 WSJ World University Rankings (no subscription needed) have HC tied with RPI and Washington and Lee at 85th. Which is pretty good for HC I guess. Bucknell, Lehigh, Colgate in the 50's. And Drexel at 93rd FWIW. I have no idea if this the previous version of the poll/survey referenced.
www.timeshighereducation.com/rankings/united-states/2017#!/page/2/length/25/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 5, 2017 9:27:11 GMT -5
The latest WSJ rankings will be available on the TimesofEducation website on Oct 12. Based on Drexel, HC gained 0.6 points from previous ranking and went from 85 to 84.
As HCpride noted, Bucknell, Lehigh, Colgate, and :Lafayette were ranked ahead of HC.
HC was the fourth ranked Catholic, after Notre Dame, Georgetown, and a school in Chestnut Hill. Fifth ranked Catholic is Santa Clara.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Oct 5, 2017 18:09:00 GMT -5
(Not to be picky, but I went back to see where Villanova was). Villanova fifth for Catholic Schools (100, followed almost immediately by Santa Clara)
And, FWIW we may be number 4 among Catholic Schools, but we are number 2 in Worcester (WPI 79 - HC 85 - Clark 271 - 333 Assumption)
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 5, 2017 19:21:58 GMT -5
Lots of ranking lists with great variation from one to the other....,
|
|
|
Post by rf1 on Oct 6, 2017 10:21:51 GMT -5
WPI #79 in the WSJ and #61 (National university category) in the US News & World Report rankings. Not bad. School has really grown from when I was there. Undergraduate enrollment was around 2,400 in the mid eighties. It is now about 4,200. That is a growth rate of 75%. This does not seem to have diluted the academic standing of WPI as it too has only increased. Campus infrastructure has been also greatly expanded (Gateway) and improved with new dorms, academic/administrative buildings, parking garages, and athletic facilities (some 15 new structures have been added in the last 30 years). maps.wpi.edu/map/?id=609
|
|
|
Post by 6sader7 on Oct 25, 2017 22:12:40 GMT -5
It seems that HC is steadily declining in academic rank over the last 10 years.
Is the problem that we're failing to attract enough applicants necessary for us to remain exclusive?
I'm trying to understand how a historically selective school has continued to drop in it's academic rankings while it's Patriot League peers appear to remain constant.
HC was ranked right alongside Colgate, Bucknell, Lehigh, and Lafayette when I was applying to college in 2003.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 26, 2017 6:58:48 GMT -5
All or some of the reasons have already been posted before:
1. It's identified too closely with the Catholic Church when fewer people either belong to the church or are Catholics in name only. Who wants to go to a seminary? 2. The offensive Crusader mascot 3. The location: Worcester, either because people have no idea where it is or because they do 4. Dropping in the SAT requirement (except for athletes, by NCAA rule). Making it optional sends the message that Holy Cross is no longer elite. 5. The Patriot League. It's not the Ivy League. It's not Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin.
Feel free to add anything else that I may have forgotten.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 26, 2017 7:31:19 GMT -5
It seems that HC is steadily declining in academic rank over the last 10 years. Is the problem that we're failing to attract enough applicants necessary for us to remain exclusive? I'm trying to understand how a historically selective school has continued to drop in it's academic rankings while it's Patriot League peers appear to remain constant. HC was ranked right alongside Colgate, Bucknell, Lehigh, and Lafayette when I was applying to college in 2003. Accepting your premise about the decline in academic ranking, two possible explanations. 1.) The other schools, aside from Colgate, have engineering programs. (Villanova, for example, has risen, in large part because of engineering.) In comparing HC and Colgate by number of graduates by major (class of 2016), Colgate has 2+x the number of biology / biologic sciences majors (12 percent of the class at Colgate) as HC; HC has 2x the number of math majors as Colgate. HC reports zero majors in computer sciences, Colgate reports about 4 percent of the class are computer science. The distribution of other majors is fairly comparable. (Colgate does have a significant environmental studies program.) The number of majors in math, the biological sciences, and the physical sciences is about the same (20 percent) at HC and Colgate. Economics is grouped within social sciences, so no basis for comparing. And little basis for saying more students at Colgate take academically challenging majors than at HC, or vice versa. 2.) The demographic curse of relying on admissions from Catholic high schools in the Northeast. IMO, the college's competitiveness will continue to decline if it persists in being 'traditional liberal arts' AND with an admissions focus on graduates of Catholic high schools. Georgetown is now 50 percent or less Catholic; Santa Clara, about 50 percent.
|
|
|
Post by CHC8485 on Oct 26, 2017 7:38:10 GMT -5
6sader7, In the last 10 years or so, in what rankings has Holy Cross dropped relative to the schools you mention? Just using the USNews rankings (which I dislike because so much of the ranking is dependent upon a subjective peer ranking & the scoring criteria changes every year) Holy Cross has been in the high 20s to 35 in the last 10 years or so. US News National Liberal Art College Rankings12. Colgate (I thnk they've moved up a number of spots from a few years back but I believe have been ahead of us in this ranking for ever) 12. Army (has only been ranked as a Liberal Arts College the last 5 years or so. Prior had been a "Specialty School") 21 Navy (See army comments) 33. Bucknell 33. Holy Cross 36. Lafayette And it's tough to compare the Liberal Arts Colleges to the National (Research) Universities but here's how other PL rank in that category US News National Universities Rankings20. Georgetown 37. Boston University 46. Lehigh 61. Fordham And finally, here's the college's Points of Pride page to make researching some of the rankings easier for you and you can see how we compare in other rankings. www.holycross.edu/about-holy-cross/points-of-pride
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 26, 2017 7:49:41 GMT -5
All or some of the reasons have already been posted before: 1. It's identified too closely with the Catholic Church when fewer people either belong to the church or are Catholics in name only. Who wants to go to a seminary? 2. The offensive Crusader mascot 3. The location: Worcester, either because people have no idea where it is or because they do 4. Dropping in the SAT requirement (except for athletes, by NCAA rule). Making it optional sends the message that Holy Cross is no longer elite. 5. The Patriot League. It's not the Ivy League. It's not Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin. Feel free to add anything else that I may have forgotten. .Other secular schools have become more Catholic, 'stealing' Catholics who might have otherwise gone to HC Harvard undergrad was 12 percent Catholic in 1954*, it is 22 percent Catholic these days. For the class of 2017 at Harvard, there were more Catholics than Protestants.# * "Student Diversity at the Big Three: Changes at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton" By Marcia Synnott # features.thecrimson.com/2013/frosh-survey/lifestyle.html
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Oct 26, 2017 7:53:16 GMT -5
All or some of the reasons have already been posted before: 1. It's identified too closely with the Catholic Church when fewer people either belong to the church or are Catholics in name only. Who wants to go to a seminary? 2. The offensive Crusader mascot 3. The location: Worcester, either because people have no idea where it is or because they do 4. Dropping in the SAT requirement (except for athletes, by NCAA rule). Making it optional sends the message that Holy Cross is no longer elite. 5. The Patriot League. It's not the Ivy League. It's not Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin. Feel free to add anything else that I may have forgotten. I will put niche of being a liberal arts school first and foremost. People are about STEM today. No Engineering or CS at HC. Yes there is a fine math department and fine straight science departments, but people aren't associating those things with a strictly liberal arts college. This blows away the above 5.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 26, 2017 8:32:54 GMT -5
From the HC Common Data Sets.
For 2007-2008 48 percent submitted SAT scores Verbal 25-75 percentiles 590-690 Math 25-75 percentiles 620-690
For 2016-2017 38 percent submitted SAT scores (the SAT scores are recalibrated back to the old way) Verbal 25-75 percentiles 600-680 Math 25-75 percentiles 620-690
From the Colgate CDS's.
For 2007-2008 79 percent submitted SAT scores (21 percent submitted ACT) Verbal 25-75 percentiles 620-720 Math 25-75 percentiles 630-710
For 2016-2017 47 percent submitted SAT scores (53 percent ACT) Verbal 25-75 percentiles 640-720 Math 25-75 percentiles 650-740
IMO, Colgate is becoming more competitive and is clearly outpacing HC, which is stagnating. .
|
|
|
Post by lou on Oct 26, 2017 8:38:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by matunuck on Oct 26, 2017 8:43:06 GMT -5
Until our Board of Trustees wakes up, we will continue on the treadmill we are on. We are where are not because of uncontrollable outside forces but largely because of the decisions we have made. As I have said many times, an outside panel (not another clueless PR firm), composed mostly of individuals who do not have a vested interest in our current admissions process/pitch, should be formed to review past decisions and make recommendations to increase our selectivity -- which, no doubt, has slipped unless you have your head in the sand. Admissions need a complete overhaul as does our marketing.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 26, 2017 9:02:17 GMT -5
I was going to apologize that most of you took my last post seriously rather than tongue-in-cheek. However, it looks like it actually generated some really good and thoughtful posts. Glad I didn't put a smiley face at the end of the last post. Now, hopefully none of those subsequent posts were also tongue-in-cheek.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Oct 26, 2017 9:06:04 GMT -5
Not surprising, Lou, as while I don't know when this was started, Fr. McFarland was a computer science guy and according to one of my HC classmates who was a classmate of Fr. M in high school and called him a legitimate "genius", he graduated from Cornell in 3 years. So, if we didn't have that program when he got to Holy Cross, he probably made sure to start one.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 26, 2017 9:07:43 GMT -5
I think the HC math department is perhaps the college's strongest department. That said, I found four professors whose fields of interest clearly are computer science related. HC computer science faculty members are not broken out, separate from math faculty. At Colgate, the computer science department has 10 professors, not counting two emeriti professors. At Bucknell, there are 10 professors, counting visiting professors and not counting professors on leave. At Williams there are 10, using the same methodology as for Bucknell. Assuming HC, Bucknell, Colgate, and Williams are academically equal, as a high school senior wanting to major in computer science, which school would you most likely not choose?
|
|
|
Post by matunuck on Oct 26, 2017 9:12:30 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Oct 26, 2017 9:13:56 GMT -5
All or some of the reasons have already been posted before: An interesting list:1. Who wants to go to a seminary? Typically, those who seek to become priests. However that has nothing to do with Holy Cross.2. The offensive Crusader mascot I would say that virtually no one has decided not to apply because of Iggy...or because of the nickname of the school's athletic teams.3. The location: Worcester, either because people have no idea where it is or because they do A possible issue negative for some and positive for others. Nt everyone wants a rural or suburban setting.4. Dropping in the SAT requirement (except for athletes, by NCAA rule). Making it optional sends the message that Holy Cross is no longer elite. The decreasing authority of SAT scores (ACT has made big inroads in replacing it) makes this issue less important.5. The Patriot League. It's not the Ivy League. It's not Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin. Again we have a sword (pun intended) that cuts two ways. Some see the PL as a refiuge for true student athletes. Others see it only as a weak athletic conference.Feel free to add anything else that I may have forgotten. How about: #6 The decline in classes actually taught by Jesuits? It may be seen as harder to get a "Jesuit" education if their are few Jesuits actually involved.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 26, 2017 9:18:54 GMT -5
I was going to apologize that most of you took my last post seriously rather than tongue-in-cheek. However, it looks like it actually generated some really good and thoughtful posts. Glad I didn't put a smiley face at the end of the last post. Now, hopefully none of those subsequent posts were also tongue-in-cheek. The amount of verbiage written, often said with great fervor, about the nickname and mascot (both on this board and email chains that I get) far surpasses the amount devoted to the academic standing, academic credentials, and academic well-being of the college. Why is that? In the hierarchy of what's important to HC as an institution, what does it say when so much thought is given to a possible change of a nickname/mascot, and so little is said about the academic challenges facing the school? __________________ The decline in classes taught by Jesuits is irreversible. Wait for the uproar when a woman is chosen as the next President of HC!
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 26, 2017 9:20:15 GMT -5
You will note Worcester plays up WPI, not HC. Perhaps understandably.
|
|
|
Post by lou on Oct 26, 2017 9:22:28 GMT -5
I think the HC math department is perhaps the college's strongest department. I agree...
|
|