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Post by sader98 on Oct 7, 2017 21:50:50 GMT -5
Nothing pisses off people who care, more than a program/institution (not going to blame the AD here...issue was already there pre ADNP), that expects respect, loyalty, fandom and attendance without earning it.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 7, 2017 22:34:20 GMT -5
Nothing pisses an AD off more than dismal crowds and fan indifference in revenue sports. He should have thought of this before signing Gilmore after 6 sub par seasons. While no one would ever confuse TG with Duff, if NP felt TG was was the sole reason for the lousy seasons, he wouldn't have re-upped him.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 7, 2017 22:40:09 GMT -5
Letting us off the hook a tad, attendance is down almost everywhere for D1 football. Seems like it has accelerated (particularly at the FCS-level in the Northeast) in the last ten or so years. Not sure how we "fight" this if it's more societal than anything.
Winning will help (it always does) but I think the new normal for a good crowd at Fitton is going to be a lot lower than it was even in 2000 never mind 1985 or 1965.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 7, 2017 23:04:47 GMT -5
Letting us off the hook a tad, attendance is down almost everywhere for D1 football. Seems like it has accelerated (particularly at the FCS-level in the Northeast) in the last ten or so years. Not sure how we "fight" this if it's more societal than anything. Winning will help (it always does) but I think the new normal for a good crowd at Fitton is going to be a lot lower than it was even in 2000 never mind 1985 or 1965. The three FBS schools aren’t doing too well at the gate either!
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Post by hc87 on Oct 7, 2017 23:20:18 GMT -5
I know...I don't get it....I know all the reasons we've posted here ad infinitum (tv/internet, cell phone culture, people busier etc) but it seems like people would rather do anything but go to a college game on a Saturday in the Northeast. Sad because it's such a great take for a variety of reasons: it's relatively inexpensive, you are on a college campus, meet up with friends, the play itself is usually pretty good etc etc etc
I look forward to going to 3 or 4 (some years more) games a year but I'm increasingly in the minority.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 7, 2017 23:26:56 GMT -5
Letting us off the hook a tad, attendance is down almost everywhere for D1 football. Seems like it has accelerated (particularly at the FCS-level in the Northeast) in the last ten or so years. Not sure how we "fight" this if it's more societal than anything. Winning will help (it always does) but I think the new normal for a good crowd at Fitton is going to be a lot lower than it was even in 2000 never mind 1985 or 1965. The three FBS schools aren’t doing too well at the gate either! Not hard to figure out why since BC, UMass & UConnvict are all atrocious.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 8, 2017 0:00:36 GMT -5
Absolutely perfect. #WeWill (TG's biggest mistake was getting complacent at the QB position 4-5 years ago. Current guy just doesn't have "it") And exactly whom should Gilmore have gone to that could have even come close to PP’ s performance ? PP has not been as good as previous seasons, but we have far more weaknesses than he. How many accurate passes have been dropped ? We really miss Jake and Brendan. The O line was better today, but not good in previous low scoring offensive games. Our pass D has been weak. The guy threw for 500 yards and put up 36 points. 30 if you want to subtract the pick 6 from that. Somehow he's the problem? Jeez.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 8, 2017 1:07:38 GMT -5
And exactly whom should Gilmore have gone to that could have even come close to PP’ s performance ? PP has not been as good as previous seasons, but we have far more weaknesses than he. How many accurate passes have been dropped ? We really miss Jake and Brendan. The O line was better today, but not good in previous low scoring offensive games. Our pass D has been weak. The guy threw for 500 yards and put up 36 points. 30 if you want to subtract the pick 6 from that. Somehow he's the problem? Jeez. You could take away the two hail mary’s from his stats too. The FG kicker missed a couple of kicks also
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 5:02:12 GMT -5
Absolutely perfect. #WeWill (TG's biggest mistake was getting complacent at the QB position 4-5 years ago. Current guy just doesn't have "it") And exactly whom should Gilmore have gone to that could have even come close to PP’ s performance ? PP has not been as good as previous seasons, but we have far more weaknesses than he. How many accurate passes have been dropped ? We really miss Jake and Brendan. The O line was better today, but not good in previous low scoring offensive games. Our pass D has been weak. I've noticed that as well and that concerns me. From watching CAA up close the last 10 years or so (I attended Stony Brook-Delaware last night) I've noticed that the most talented recruits (true frosh/red shirt frosh) frequently break in at the speed positions. When they (RBs, Receivers, Corner, Safeties) are very good and fast they are often very good and fast early.
I've heard we have recruited stronger the last two years or so - but I haven't seen much evidence where we should see it (and most need BTW) - on the field at the speed positions.
(I admit I've made about 50 gross generalizations here.)
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Post by crusader12 on Oct 8, 2017 5:35:36 GMT -5
Are they serious? Holy Cross Football @hcrossfb THE HAIL MARY WORKS AGAIN! Touchdown! On the last play of the game, Pujals connects with Bell for the second Hail Mary of the day! #SCtop10 LoL
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Post by hchoops on Oct 8, 2017 6:58:24 GMT -5
The guy threw for 500 yards and put up 36 points. 30 if you want to subtract the pick 6 from that. Somehow he's the problem? Jeez. You could take away the two hail mary’s from his stats too. Doug Flutis may not agree.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 8, 2017 6:59:08 GMT -5
As long as we stay in the PL we will never be a good team. The Ivy League will always out-recruit us, I hope the administration finally decides to get out of the PL, even Monmouth joined the Big South to be in a better league and they are beating the PL with better athletes than we will ever recruit in this lousy league. Well, I think it's crystal clear now (simple to this simpleton, if you will). We (HC) has 2 choices: 1) Expand Fitton to 75K, start non medical redshirting of frosh, establish a General Studies major, and entice recruits with cash and prostitutes, or 2) Stop complaining* about the Patriot League, buckle up their chin straps, get in a 2/3/4 point stance, hit someone, and WIN. Period. End of story/nonsense. *To their credit, I've never heard public complaints about the PL holding them back from anyone at HC (maybe privately its another matter). Thank God, because as far as I'm concerned it's the wussiest attitude they could have. "Oh gee Bluto, we don't want to go with you cause we might get in trouble!". THE EXCUSE gets lamer by the day. To quote nhteamer, WIN
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 8, 2017 7:10:48 GMT -5
And yet we want to join Hockey East,and the Big East for basketball....without a competitive spirit? We won't last 5 years in either imo.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 8, 2017 7:39:30 GMT -5
He should have thought of this before signing Gilmore after 6 sub par seasons. While no one would ever confuse TG with Duff, if NP felt TG was was the sole reason for the lousy seasons, he wouldn't have re-upped him. Maybe NP was wrong
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 8, 2017 7:40:02 GMT -5
Absolutely perfect. #WeWill (TG's biggest mistake was getting complacent at the QB position 4-5 years ago. Current guy just doesn't have "it") And exactly whom should Gilmore have gone to that could have even come close to PP’ s performance ? PP has not been as good as previous seasons, but we have far more weaknesses than he. How many accurate passes have been dropped ? We really miss Jake and Brendan. The O line was better today, but not good in previous low scoring offensive games. Our pass D has been weak. Maybe it was the Ian Brown kid who got hurt and is no longer playing, or maybe we just didn't recruit the position well enough. The accuracy (completion %), accuracy into tight windows (particularly on 3rd and medium-to-long), accuracy throwing the ball down the field all result in very few sustained drives, conversions on big plays, and putting too much pressure on the defense. Take out the two Hail Mary's yesterday, and the line is 34-61 / 422 / 2 TD / 1 INT. When you compare it to the efficiency on the other side (23-31 / 324 / 3 / 0), it's pretty easy to see why it was such a lopsided game.
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Post by breezy on Oct 8, 2017 7:40:46 GMT -5
I have seen many football games -- in person and on TV -- over the past 50+ years.
Until yesterday, I had never seen a team get touchdowns at the end of each half on Hail Mary passes.
I very much doubt I will see that again while on this earth.
That being said, I would without hesitation trade that unique experience for a win in yesterday's game.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 8, 2017 7:49:21 GMT -5
And exactly whom should Gilmore have gone to that could have even come close to PP’ s performance ? PP has not been as good as previous seasons, but we have far more weaknesses than he. How many accurate passes have been dropped ? We really miss Jake and Brendan. The O line was better today, but not good in previous low scoring offensive games. Our pass D has been weak. Maybe it was the Ian Brown kid who got hurt and is no longer playing, or maybe we just didn't recruit the position well enough. The accuracy (completion %), accuracy into tight windows (particularly on 3rd and medium-to-long), accuracy throwing the ball down the field all result in very few sustained drives, conversions on big plays, and putting too much pressure on the defense. Take out the two Hail Mary's yesterday, and the line is 34-61 / 422 / 2 TD / 1 INT. When you compare it to the efficiency on the other side (23-31 / 324 / 3 / 0), it's pretty easy to see why it was such a lopsided game. Are those PP stats from yesterday, even without the Hail Marys, bad ? Especially considering we do not have a strong running game . Which team had the best receiver, the better running game and the better line ? . Blaming PP is the wrong target. As I wrote above, and you ignored, we have had far more weak areas than PP who over his career has been an overall strength How about our coaching decisions over the last seven years, especially in close and ot games ?
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 8:26:10 GMT -5
Any chance the PL presidents review the football events of the past five years and decide to (again) change course and this time copy the Georgetown (not Fordham) model? In other words, give up the hugely expensive schollies (boys and matching girls) while keeping the precise goal for each team of winning the Patriot League Championship and sustaining the brand.
Outside scheduling of wisely selected Ivies, Pioneer League (Davidson, Dayton, Marist , etc.) and a rare regional CAA/NEC. Patriot League scheduling as is. Similar smallish crowd size at the respective venues. Similar lowish student and fan interest.
(Not an end to football like our former rivals Boston University, Northeastern, etc. Just a course correction probably welcomed by at least a few PL Presidents...probably opposed by a replaceable Fordham )
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Post by ncaam on Oct 8, 2017 8:34:53 GMT -5
Agree with above. Add 2-3 teams to the PL football league. The players we are getting are about what we were getting non scholarship. The other problems we face like no frosh red shirting and grade restrictions would be obviated.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 8, 2017 9:24:49 GMT -5
Prior to the scholarship era were we getting players who turned down full scholarships at other schools to come to HC on need-based aid? I don't remember that happening a lot
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 8, 2017 9:53:28 GMT -5
-- On why D1 football in the northeast seemingly has dwindling interest, I finally came up with (what is probably not original) an idea: due to dozens of sports channels on cable/satellite TV, expanded national TV deals across leagues big and small, Twitter coverage, streaming coverage, and other media, there are hundreds of options to get your football fix without leaving the house. You can watch nearly every game in the "BIG" conferences, ACC, SEC, and all the way out west. You can watch some random program that you hold near and dear to your heart if your mom went there or your high school buddy plays on the team. You don't have to rely on the only show in town (in Worcester, that being HC for the Saturday game day experience)... you can drink all the beer in your own fridge, get all the food you want, pee 10 feet from the couch, and stay warm in your fuzzy bunny slippers. HC and other northeast D1 college football programs have to compete not only with better products, but much more convenient ways to consume those products. Us bozos on this forum are fanatics, but the average, random Worcester-ite is going to want to sit home and watch Florida State versus Miami, where the series goes back like 60-some-odd games basically split right down the middle. And one of the teams (Miami) was nationally ranked. Or, you could drive all the way over to Fitton, pee in a closet, no beer to drink, food like you'd find at a little league game, sit on a hard aluminum bench, with 2000+ other jabronis, and watch the home team give up 600 yards and lose. Where was there an enjoyable experience, to the subjective person?
-- I've recently cemented my opinion that HC football should be folded, the scholarship money invested in other sports programs (like basketball, and hockey, where we CAN have easier success, at the highest levels, and have cracked relevancy more recently than 50 years ago like football), and we focus there. We'll likely have fewer Title IX accommodating to do and can save money on some other fringe sports that exist just to buffer the scholarships doled out for football. HC athletics right now is like a summer camp. Everybody gets to play, the level of competition is not the strongest, and we encourage every sort of excuse rather than prioritizing winning.
How many times do I need to read "this person is a great HC guy," "that person accommodates himself very well," "there's no better person..." All that is well and good. I went to college with scores of perfect representatives of the student body, and few of them received athletic scholarships. None of them were D1 coaches. Being a good person and being a bad coach, or poor performing athlete are not mutually exclusive.
#WeWill... what? Defer action or change to later? That's future tense. "We ARE" doing something to right the ship and get the program's collective head out of its collective arse would be a better slogan.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 8, 2017 10:01:37 GMT -5
It's a quandary and I wouldn't want to be NP today.
We have all the facilities (just about) of any FCS program in the country, very attractive future schedules with Yale, Harvard, UNH, BC, Syracuse, UConn and Navy all locked in for the next 5 or so years, an administration (who seems to anyway from what we can glean from Fr B's statements) that wants HC football to succeed....and yet, we're being manhandled by programs that didn't even exist in the 1980s, drawing flies at best at Fitton and basically getting about 10 cents back on the dollar invested into this program.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 10:02:14 GMT -5
@ HCPride: Any chance the PL presidents review the football events of the past five years and decide to (again) change course and this time copy the Georgetown (not Fordham) model? In other words, give up the hugely expensive schollies (boys and matching girls) while keeping the precise goal for each team of winning the Patriot League Championship and sustaining the brand. Outside scheduling of wisely selected Ivies, Pioneer League (Davidson, Dayton, Marist , etc.) and a rare regional CAA/NEC. Patriot League scheduling as is. Similar smallish crowd size at the respective venues. Similar lowish student and fan interest. (Not an end to football like our former rivals Boston University, Northeastern, etc. Just a course correction probably welcomed by at least a few PL Presidents...probably opposed by a replaceable Fordham ) ncaam Agree with above. Add 2-3 teams to the PL football league. The players we are getting are about what we were getting non scholarship. The other problems we face like no frosh red shirting and grade restrictions would be obviated. Prior to the scholarship era were we getting players who turned down full scholarships at other schools to come to HC on need-based aid? I don't remember that happening a lot ncaam didn't suggest that. (Beyond that, I posted above as a reaction to a poster who stated the only football goal was to win the Patriot League. Overall football W-L record does not matter - we can still make our ultimate goal this year. Obviously, that sort of goal is not dependent on the Patriot League having scholarships. Even if the HC football goal is to 'maintain the brand', that goal does not require PL scholarships. As has been proven. As far as the necessity of scholarships to maintain our lowish attendance and lowish student and fan support, clearly that is not necessary either. We hit that level in the PL both pre and post-schollies. Of course this is within the context of noting PL Teams have not noticeably tightened the gap w/Ivy, CAA or NEC. At all. In the post-schollie era. While that may not have been a goal to those who believe the only goal is to win the PL football title, a PL football return to non-schollie doubly doesn't really matter at all. If that makes any sense. And if Fordham balks, tell 'em goodbye and goodluck in some other league and bring in Marist for football [they played Bucknell, Columbia and Georgetown this year and have to travel too far in the Pioneer Conference])
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 8, 2017 10:07:31 GMT -5
A temporary hiatus from my hiatus to post my thoughts and then I plan on going back into hibernation: One of my most frequent sayings here has been along the lines that we are never as good, or as bad, as we think we are. That held true after the UNH win that is still a nationally ranked team, nor now as bad as we think now that we've lost to Monmouth. Before the season, a number of posters were berating our schedule and playing the likes of Monmouth, like they were beneath us. I checked in with one of the coaches for a reaction and was essentially told that people that believe Monmouth is a bad team essentially didn't know what they were talking about. Now, taking aside the UConn game because they are in a different division and was a "guarantee" game (we get guaranteed a payday and they get a guaranteed win, which they need as, so far, we are their only win), here is how our opponents who beat us are doing: Dartmouth (4-0, undefeated) Lafayette (2-4, one of those wins, of course, is us, but they beat Fordham 14-10 yesterday) Monmouth (5-1, with wins over Lafayette, Bucknell and Lehigh as well as Hampton with their only loss to Albany at Albany. Of the PL teams that lost to them, we played them the closest) That's an 11-6 record. Our win against UNH is the Wildcats only loss with their record 4-1 after beating Bryant 45-17 and ranked #13 before yesterday and likely to climb slightly in the polls. My beef with the team is the same one that I have had for 10+ years and have shared frequently with Coach Gilmore . . . . the lack of a power runner. We lost by 12 yesterday. The pick 6 and the punt return for a TD by Monmouth certainly didn't help. IMHO though, the biggest difference was their large, fast, powerful runners. I shared this with one of my Classmates: So, despite Peter having a record breaking passing game and us getting 34 first downs to their 18, we lost another. I can assure you that TG would love to get a powerful RB but has been unable to get one either past admissions or stolen by a D-IA school, or as some have suggested perhaps, because of the offense we run. I suspect this is a chicken-or-the-egg situation. A big back might in fact change our play calling strategy. I have changed my pre-season thinking that Fordham, Colgate and Lehigh were beyond the possibility of winning. We might lose every one of those games but I believe that this team, and yes the coaching staff, can still win these games. Let's see how we do against Yale. Both HC and Yale lost to Dartmouth by a point but it took OT for the Big Green to beat us. Signing off.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 8, 2017 10:09:59 GMT -5
In response to hcpride & ncaam: I don't see how giving prospective student athletes less incentive to come to the school will not yield poorer results. That defies logic in my opinion.
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