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Post by hcgrad94 on Oct 8, 2017 10:13:48 GMT -5
Agree with above. Add 2-3 teams to the PL football league. The players we are getting are about what we were getting non scholarship. The other problems we face like no frosh red shirting and grade restrictions would be obviated. Great idea. Which 2-3 schools again?
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 10:18:51 GMT -5
In response to hcpride & ncaam: I don't see how giving prospective student athletes less incentive to come to the school will not yield poorer results. That defies logic in my opinion. AAHHHH. Now I understand. If THE goal is to win the Patriot League and the entire PL goes back to non scholarships for football that problem does not exist. If the second goal for the program is to maintain the brand and the PL goes back to non-scholarship football that problem does not exist either. If the 3rd goal is to build student and fan support well, now I'm piling on. Point being that PL football scholarships may not be necessary for HC's football goals. In absolute or relative 'bang for buck' terms. (This is all in the context of what is going on now with HC and PL football and the aforementioned 'bang for the buck' notion.)
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 10:21:06 GMT -5
Agree with above. Add 2-3 teams to the PL football league. The players we are getting are about what we were getting non scholarship. The other problems we face like no frosh red shirting and grade restrictions would be obviated. Great idea. Which 2-3 schools again? Marist could be one (played Bucknell, Georgetown and Columbia this year).
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Post by hc87 on Oct 8, 2017 10:26:36 GMT -5
I don't see it happening, but count me out if we add whatever 2 or 3 schools (that aren't Villanova, Richmond or W&M) to the PL, leaving us with 2 or 3 OOC games which would probably be a couple Ivies and a NEC school.
Potential schedule being:
Harvard Yale CCSU Marist* Bryant* Lehigh Lafayette Bucknell Colgate Fordham Georgetown
* Added schools to PL football
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 10:35:31 GMT -5
I don't see it happening, but count me out if we add whatever 2 or 3 schools (that aren't Villanova, Richmond or W&M) to the PL, leaving us with 2 or 3 OOC games which would probably be a couple Ivies and a NEC school. Potential schedule being: Harvard Yale CCSU Marist* Bryant* Lehigh Lafayette Bucknell Colgate Fordham Georgetown * Added schools to PL football This is in the context of noting that the PL opposition is not particularly riveting to HC fans in any case. I'd add only Marist to PL, add Pioneers like Davidson or Dayton to our OOC as Georgetown does already, and take CCSU/Bryant off the schedule. Of course a CAA (UNH/Maine/URI ) and/or a NEC here and there. Not really much different from what we already see and sort of a Georgetown schedule. From my personal perspective as one who remembers a different HC schedule from the one we see today, my suggestion wouldn't be much different or much less appealing. (I know the Richmond story but am leaving that aside)
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 8, 2017 10:40:38 GMT -5
hcpride--looks like you and I have different goals for the program
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 8, 2017 10:54:41 GMT -5
-- I've recently cemented my opinion that HC football should be folded, the scholarship money invested in other sports programs (like basketball, and hockey, where we CAN have easier success, at the highest levels, and have cracked relevancy more recently than 50 years ago like football), and we focus there. We'll likely have fewer Title IX accommodating to do and can save money on some other fringe sports that exist just to buffer the scholarships doled out for football. HC athletics right now is like a summer camp. Everybody gets to play, the level of competition is not the strongest, and we encourage every sort of excuse rather than prioritizing winning. WCHC, I absolutely disagree that folding HC football should be viewed as an opportunity to grow our athletic brand. While basketball is certainly the sport that drives the apple cart here, we have just as rich a football history as we do basketball. The Duffner era wasn't THAT long ago. Lockbaum was in the Heisman race in the late 80's. We were in the NCAA playoffs in 2009 (granted this feels like terribly long ago now) and we've had a couple guys get cups of coffee in the NFL of late. Wasn't even a decade ago that 22,000 people showed up to watch a Friday night game between Holy Cross and Harvard. While we don't play "at the highest level" being FCS, it doesn't mean the sport is less relevant to alumni and to the school's overall sports culture. North Dakota State football doesn't play at the highest level but it's still more relevant nationally than, say, Rider basketball. HC basketball plays at the highest level in name only. We have ZERO chance to compete for a championship in Division I but that doesn't mean I'm not going to follow it. Winning the PL still means something to fans, just like it does in football. Beating BC and Harvard are still important milestones, even though our respective teams have no chance of competing for the NCAA Division I Basketball Championship or the FBS National Championship. Another thing to point out - how many schools have seen tangible improvements to their basketball programs as a direct result of cutting football? Villanova brought football back in 1987 and has done just fine on the hardwood while maintaining very solid FCS success in football. Wichita State is thinking about bringing football back now because they are afraid the lack of a football team is hurting their ability to upgrade conference affiliation. I do very much agree with you on the reasons for FCS football decline in the Northeast. In addition to that, I think the lack of a vibrant Friday night HS football culture in the Northeast hurts as well. Kids down south, in the Midwest and probably a lot of California grow up with the weekly football game being the centerpiece of a typical late summer/fall week. Then, when they go to college, it's just a part of life to go to their school's game on Saturday. In New England, it's a battle to get students to go to games after September of their freshman year. The ability for us to stream games online also a factor. I did not attend the Monmouth game yesterday. Not because I would rather watch a Big Ten game from the comfort of my Bronx couch but because I had errands to run and work to catch up on and am now able to do that on a Saturday all the while watching the Crusaders. Ten years ago, I probably drive up to Worcester for the day. But yesterday my attitude was, why give up a whole day for this non-conference game when I can just watch in HD at home on the big screen, get my work done, and then just make the pilgrimage up in two weeks for a bigger game against Colgate (I'll be at Yale too, BTW)?
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Post by hc87 on Oct 8, 2017 10:55:40 GMT -5
In the fear of incurring the wrath of our friend realism here....I don't mind PL football (GTown and Fordham are natural rivals, Colgate is a long-term rival...the Pennsy schools are a bit of a stretch but all great schools and Lehigh-Lafayette obviously have great college football historic ties) that being said, I enjoy our games against the Ivies, former or current CAA schools and now FBS schools once again collectively more than our PL games.
Personal preference on my part obviously....but I just am not that into winning the PL and then going to the FCS playoffs as much as I like to see HC play schools like Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Brown, UNH, UConn, UMass, BC, Syracuse, Navy and Army home and away during the Fall and calling it a season at season's end.
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 11:01:35 GMT -5
hcpride--looks like you and I have different goals for the program Not necessarily, I am referencing a back and forth from last night relative to our (and the rest of the PL's) awful OOC showing thus far: hcpride : Gosh, I'm reading a couple of other posters and I just can't get excited that we still have a shot at winning the anemic Patriot League. The Patriot League? That passes for an accomplishment this year? another poster: Yes. That was the goal this year. That's the goal every year. Doesn't matter if HC is 11-0, 10-1, or 6-5. Success in the playoffs is gravy (at least until the program can win the PL consistently (To be fair it does seem as though that may be the school's FB goal. A second FB goal mentioned by our administration is to build the brand and neither of these require FBl schollies in the PL. As a contrarian I have to question whether football schollies and The Luth were the best thought out of our decisions.)
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 11:05:28 GMT -5
In the fear of incurring the wrath of our friend realism here....I don't mind PL football (GTown and Fordham are natural rivals, Colgate is a long-term rival...the Pennsy schools are a bit of a stretch but all great schools and Lehigh-Lafayette obviously have great college football historic ties) that being said, I enjoy our games against the Ivies, former or current CAA schools and now FBS schools once again collectively more than our PL games. Personal preference on my part obviously....but I just am not that into winning the PL and then going to the FCS playoffs as much as I like to see HC play schools like Dartmouth, Harvard, Yale, Brown, UNH, UConn, UMass, BC, Syracuse, Navy and Army home and away during the Fall and calling it a season at season's end. Why not add Notre Dame to that list Agree with your personal preferences there....I hear there are people that are excited about winning the PL in football but I have met very very few.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 8, 2017 11:13:37 GMT -5
Screw ND lol.....but the schools I listed above are schools we have played or will play within the last/next 5 years or so.....all longtime (save for Navy) opponents of HC football. Obviously play 1 or in the rare occasion (as we are scheduled to in 2019) 2 FBS schools every year.
I think we have set up the blueprint for HC football relevance again (such as that might be in the early 21st C at the FCS level) with all the improvements (facilities, schollies, schedules etc)....it's just a matter (maybe a lot harder than was thought) of executing that plan.
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Post by bikeman on Oct 8, 2017 11:39:04 GMT -5
If HC were undefeated heading into the Colgate game, I would imagine a crowd 10-12000. The program needs a new, young enthusiastic head coach. We shouldn't be this bad.
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Post by jkh67 on Oct 8, 2017 13:25:20 GMT -5
sader98 absolutely correct. Seems to be a problem throughout New England D1 schools (save for UNH). I expect Harvard, Yale, and Dartmouth would beg to differ!
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Post by inhocsigno on Oct 8, 2017 13:53:51 GMT -5
Prior to the scholarship era were we getting players who turned down full scholarships at other schools to come to HC on need-based aid? I don't remember that happening a lot Yes. Happened a lot. Not I-A programs, but I know of many players that picked HC over IAA scholarship programs.
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Post by crusader1970 on Oct 8, 2017 16:37:03 GMT -5
If HC were undefeated heading into the Colgate game, I would imagine a crowd 10-12000. The program needs a new, young enthusiastic head coach. We shouldn't be this bad. I totally agree. JUST WIN!! However, I do not believe the HC FB program will ever reach its full potential under Coach Gilmore. I just hope Nate Pine agrees with me and does the intelligent thing here.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 8, 2017 17:11:21 GMT -5
CTG said we were missing several players. Who did not play? Btw Monmouth put a lot more pressure on th q b than we did.
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Post by deep Purple on Oct 8, 2017 17:20:55 GMT -5
The former non-schollie brand of football was garbage. Sorry, but it was glorified d2/d3. The PL just needs some new HC's who aren't leftovers of the non-schollie days. Lafayette was the first to go out and get a coach who isn't a product of the lousy non-schollie model and I think and would hope other schools will follow suit.
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Post by td128 on Oct 8, 2017 18:04:42 GMT -5
Was yesterday's game livestreamed?
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 18:07:07 GMT -5
The former non-schollie brand of football was garbage. Sorry, but it was glorified d2/d3. The PL just needs some new HC's who aren't leftovers of the non-schollie days. Lafayette was the first to go out and get a coach who isn't a product of the lousy non-schollie model and I think and would hope other schools will follow suit. Were we (PL) as awful v Ivy and CAA and NEC as we are right now?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 8, 2017 18:32:27 GMT -5
You are aware that the Ivy model for athletics has changed dramatically, right?
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Post by hcpride on Oct 8, 2017 18:43:29 GMT -5
You are aware that the Ivy model for athletics has changed dramatically, right? Yes, but...when was that change and did it effect all the Ivies or primarily HYP? Beyond that, what about CAA and NEC success pre-PL schollie and right now. (Looking at the PL wins/losses I'd say this is our worst year ever v Ivy/CAA/NEC. W-L and margins of losses. Not sure if it will improve next year looking program to program. I guess the schollie argument is that OOC games would be even worse for PL without schollies)
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Post by td128 on Oct 8, 2017 18:51:46 GMT -5
I gather that some here could not watch the game via livestream but others seem to have been able. Perhaps Dick Lutsk did not touch on it but with 8 pages of comments only one comment captured what transpired on two plays in the 1st quarter of yesterday's game that had a HUGE impact on the game as a whole.
This tells me all I need to know.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 9, 2017 6:57:12 GMT -5
My livestream coverage was the best I have had all year. I wonder if switching from internet explorer to google chrome was part of the reason?
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Post by joe on Oct 9, 2017 7:05:00 GMT -5
What happened that wasn’t broadcast that impacted the game? I did not watch, and frankly enjoyed a nice fall Saturday.
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Post by hc6774 on Oct 9, 2017 7:16:02 GMT -5
ok I'll bite too... I was at the game but didn't arrive until after our FG in the 1st Q. Since it was in 2nd Q the off side penalty in the red zone that extended MU's first TD drive isn't one of them. This first score was followed by 5 more consecutive MU possessions that resulted in TD's.
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