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Post by rickii on Nov 14, 2017 11:21:37 GMT -5
Re: Assumption/Chesney
Rick Carter came from then Div-III Dayton ( 1 level below Div-IAA ) following a 14-0 National Championship season and being named National Coach of the Year in the 'College' division.
That worked out pretty well.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2017 11:23:06 GMT -5
Re: Assumption/Chesney Rick Carter came from then Div-III Dayton ( 1 level below Div-IAA ) following a 14-0 National Championship season and being named National Coach of the Year in the 'College' division. That worked out pretty well. Yes. And then his plan was to move up following a few great seasons.
I don't mind that sort of up-and-comer hire. At all.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 14, 2017 11:23:43 GMT -5
Wonderful! But that still does not say anything about whether or not Chesney is a good football coach. There is no way that Duke, Michigan St, Arizona, Kansas, etc. could compete with the Golden State Warriors. Does that mean that K, Izzo, Miller, and Self can't coach? HC is too difficult a place to coach, for a variety of well-established non-football reasons. Chesney, or any other up and coming D2 or D3 coach might very well succeed at HC, but i’m my opinion it’s too much of a gamble. Frankly I think a coach of this level would do better as a CAA school, for example, than at HC, where I think the focus is a little more on the game than all the other bull crap. If HC wants to get this done correctly they will put their money where their mouth is and bring in someone who has already been there and done that. The Carmody model works for me. A coach with "D1" experience who has never coached at a place like HC would be no better prepared than a great coach from D2 or D3, based solely on the fact that he coached in Division 1. You're telling me that Jeff freakin Jagodzinski would be a better fit for HC than Chesney because he has "D1 experience?" Have another. The formula for what it takes to be successful at HC is replicated by very few other schools (basically just the PL and some IVY's), and once we break out of that bubble, it just comes down to who best can adapt to that formula and maximize its effectiveness. A resume as a D1 coach were you had no academic hurdles in recruiting and were coaching athletes who are far superior to HC is no better indicator for success at HC than a resume as a D2 coach where you had no academic hurdles in recruiting and were coaching athletes who are (likely) inferior to HC. Both guys have to adapt.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2017 11:27:26 GMT -5
Assumption vs. Georgetown would be competitive. Definitely. I'd add Lafayette (beat Georgetown by a whopping 7-0 score) to that list. This year the PL was so weak I don't think it is a stretch to say a very good DII could match up with a couple.
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Post by joe on Nov 14, 2017 11:31:30 GMT -5
OK. We’ll see what Pine comes up with. Will we get someone that we are “ok with” or someone who blows our minds? Regardless, it’s going to be about 3-4 years before we’ll know who is right in this argument. Not sure HC football as a D1 school has many more chances to get this right.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 14, 2017 11:46:10 GMT -5
No, the Carmody model (of 2 whole years) that has won a PL tournament and an NCAA tournament game. If the next HC coach had two losing seasons after arriving (nothing new there) but won the PL in one of those years and then a post-season game, I have to think most folks would be thrilled. If i were an AD or fan I wouldn't be pleased with a team that had a losing record during the season and played well for 1 weekend of the year. what happened during the season? Your obviously not an AD, b/c AD's hang their hat on championships, NOT regular season records. Same with 99% of fans.
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Post by worcester on Nov 14, 2017 12:35:41 GMT -5
If i were an AD or fan I wouldn't be pleased with a team that had a losing record during the season and played well for 1 weekend of the year. what happened during the season? Your obviously not an AD, b/c AD's hang their hat on championships, NOT regular season records. Same with 99% of fans. So as a coach you would like to underachieve all year and then play well for a weekend? My question would be, "Where was your team all year." Also, I truly believe that the "real" championship should be decided by the regular season champions, not a weekend tournament.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 14, 2017 12:54:08 GMT -5
While Dayton was technically D3 when Carter coached there, the Flyers were playing (and beating) some D1 programs during his tenure there. They were sort of a de facto member of the MAC during much of the 70s....I haven't really looked into it but I think they went from D1 Independent to D3 during that era. I'm really not making an argument on "D3 or no D3" candidate...but it does shed a little light on Carter's experience prior to coming to HC. As for Lee, we could possibly get a "2 for 1" with his son Jordan (Jr in HS now): www.hudl.com/video/3/7048391/5a06871aa0232522d41957f5
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 14, 2017 13:03:31 GMT -5
Your obviously not an AD, b/c AD's hang their hat on championships, NOT regular season records. Same with 99% of fans. So as a coach you would like to underachieve all year and then play well for a weekend? My question would be, "Where was your team all year." Also, I truly believe that the "real" championship should be decided by the regular season champions, not a weekend tournament.You do. Doesn't mean everybody else does, and the NCAA doesn't either.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 14, 2017 13:09:33 GMT -5
Dayton was a D1 Indy up to 1976....the year before Carter started there. They continued to play and beat D1 schools in 77, 78 and 79. Taking nothing away from what he accomplished there...but he wasn't some "D1 neophyte" when he came to the bright lights of Mt St James in 1981. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dayton_Flyers_football
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Post by worcester on Nov 14, 2017 13:12:06 GMT -5
So as a coach you would like to underachieve all year and then play well for a weekend? My question would be, "Where was your team all year." Also, I truly believe that the "real" championship should be decided by the regular season champions, not a weekend tournament.You do. Doesn't mean everybody else does, and the NCAA doesn't either. The NCAA doesn't determine who gets the automatic bid, the league does. You are correct that most people disagree with me, just giving my opinion.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 14, 2017 13:22:40 GMT -5
No, the Carmody model (of 2 whole years) that has won a PL tournament and an NCAA tournament game. If the next HC coach had two losing seasons after arriving (nothing new there) but won the PL in one of those years and then a post-season game, I have to think most folks would be thrilled. If i were an AD or fan I wouldn't be pleased with a team that had a losing record during the season and played well for 1 weekend of the year. what happened during the season? Of course, it was for more than "1 weekend." We should try to stay within the bounds of what actually happened, not excesses we may use trying to prove either point. I respect your opinion. You are entitled (and do not need anyone else's permission) to have it. Just as others are entitled to disagree. What we are not entitled to is making up (or selectively highlighting) facts.
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Post by crusader12 on Nov 14, 2017 13:37:05 GMT -5
If HC played the same way they did against Colgate and Lafayette it's a coin flip against Assumption. The team is not good. I would just hope ADNP and others on this board don't just bush off Chesney because he comes from a d2 school and stick their noses in the air. THAT IS THE WRONG APPROACH!!!!
My gut tells me ADNP wouldn't hire a d2 coach, doesn't seem to be his style. Honestly speaking here, Chesney may be the type of coach we need. I don't envy ADNP.
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Post by worcester on Nov 14, 2017 13:40:10 GMT -5
If i were an AD or fan I wouldn't be pleased with a team that had a losing record during the season and played well for 1 weekend of the year. what happened during the season? Of course, it was for more than "1 weekend." We should try to stay within the bounds of what actually happened, not excesses we may use trying to prove either point. I respect your opinion. You are entitled (and do not need anyone else's permission) to have it. Just as other are entitled to disagree. What we are not entitled to is making up (or selectively highlighting) facts. You are correct, it was over an 8 day period and not one weekend. The point I was making is that when you are 5-13 in your conference and you win the post season tournament imo that is not cause to get excited.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 14, 2017 13:42:30 GMT -5
Of course, it was for more than "1 weekend." We should try to stay within the bounds of what actually happened, not excesses we may use trying to prove either point. I respect your opinion. You are entitled (and do not need anyone else's permission) to have it. Just as other are entitled to disagree. What we are not entitled to is making up (or selectively highlighting) facts. You are correct, it was over an 8 day period and not one weekend. The point I was making is that when you are 5-13 in your conference and you win the post season tournament imo that is not cause to get excited.What???
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Post by joe on Nov 14, 2017 13:46:31 GMT -5
That run for the PL and victory in the NCAA, even though it was a PIG, was one of the most exciting periods of following any sports team, in my life. Just an incredible achievement to shake off a tough regular season, win 4 games on the road, capture a title, make the NCAA, and beat a decent Southern squad. Absolutely exciting as exciting could possibly be.
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Post by deep Purple on Nov 14, 2017 15:05:03 GMT -5
My biggest concern with hiring a d2/d3 coach is their ability to evaluate d1 scholarship talent and knowing what to offer in addition to being able to close the deal. I could be wrong but it seemed like it took TG awhile to get the hang of it.
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Post by 6sader7 on Nov 14, 2017 15:24:30 GMT -5
Assumption beat Fordham 24-30 in 2010 at Fordham. Fordham was schollie then. (We beat Fordham that year by 5 points).
A very good DII team can match up with a bad FCS team in a bad FCS Conference. I would expect Assumption this year to give a bottom Patriot Team a good game this year and maybe even win.
Thank you for making my point I would not expect that. Is it possible? Sure, what isn't. Is it likely? Absolutely not. It would be more likely that the worst Pat league school would beat Assumption by 3+ TD's.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 14, 2017 19:26:17 GMT -5
Of course, it was for more than "1 weekend." We should try to stay within the bounds of what actually happened, not excesses we may use trying to prove either point. I respect your opinion. You are entitled (and do not need anyone else's permission) to have it. Just as other are entitled to disagree. What we are not entitled to is making up (or selectively highlighting) facts. You are correct, it was over an 8 day period and not one weekend. The point I was making is that when you are 5-13 in your conference and you win the post season tournament imo that is not cause to get excited. And when you get 20 wins against a mediocre schedule and get bounced from thePL tournament, that is also not a cause to get excited...except that in one case you still have a champonship.
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Post by worcester on Nov 15, 2017 11:17:55 GMT -5
You are correct, it was over an 8 day period and not one weekend. The point I was making is that when you are 5-13 in your conference and you win the post season tournament imo that is not cause to get excited. And when you get 20 wins against a mediocre schedule and get bounced from thePL tournament, that is also not a cause to get excited...except that in one case you still have a champonship. It's called high standards my friend
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Post by timholycross on Nov 15, 2017 11:43:08 GMT -5
My take. In the 70s, when Jack D. left, would have been quite happy if HC had gotten Joe O'Brien to move over from Salisbury Street. Had been there a while and had seen his teams compete against ours. Classy guy. This fellow, because Assumption football flies under the radar screen for most folks, has no track record with me or most of us. Not an alum (like Denny Golden would have been if he wanted to pursue a coaching career rather than academic administration). Tough to get enthused about him.
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Post by cmo on Nov 15, 2017 13:24:10 GMT -5
This is true. However, I am hoping we pick the coach that gives us best chance of winning (whoever it may be) and not the one who will make the biggest splash.
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Post by spenser on Nov 15, 2017 18:27:01 GMT -5
This is true. However, I am hoping we pick the coach that gives us best chance of winning (whoever it may be) and not the one who will make the biggest splash. Exactly.
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Post by gks on Nov 18, 2017 20:42:58 GMT -5
Bob Chesney and Assumption host another NCAA D2 playoff game next Saturday after today's win. If I'm Nate Pine I buy a ticket and check it out.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 18, 2017 21:17:25 GMT -5
Incognito, of course
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