|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Sept 12, 2018 21:35:21 GMT -5
We play Division I football. So does the Ivy League.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Sept 12, 2018 21:42:09 GMT -5
Moose, we’re beating out plenty of FBS schools and some strong FCS schools for recruits. I posted the list below in another thread.
Some of the better reported offers made to our verbals:
CJ Hanson - Morgan State, Bryant Chris Butash - Toledo, Fordham, Lehigh Ben Blessing - Ohio U, Kent State Sean Morris - Army, Kent State, UNH, Delaware Jonathan Young - UNH, Elon, W&M Patrick McMurtrie - Syracuse, Temple, Buffalo, Central Michigan, UMass Kamryn Molton - Air Force, Army Jared Kreisler - Akron, Eastern Michigan Jacob Dobbs - Youngstown State, Fordham, Lehigh, Brown, Dartmouth
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 12, 2018 21:56:53 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Sept 12, 2018 21:57:35 GMT -5
We play Division I football. So does the Ivy League. ok, when i refer to "D1" i really mean the top ranked football programs that contend for major bowl game offers. that's not HC or the ivy league!
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Sept 12, 2018 23:06:18 GMT -5
BC and Syracuse are incredible "stretches" for our program Moose....even in the best of times....but playing them provides us with a host of positives imo....recruiting, brand-name for the school, playing experience etc etc.....granted, I don't have to line up against some of the bettah college football playahs in the country but I think these types of games are beneficial as a whole in host of ways for our program.
It's one, maybe rarely two like next year, games a year...we can do this imo.
10,000 HC fans (and recruits aren't coming to HC to play) aren't going to Smithfield, RI (Bryant) or New Britain, CT (CCSU) to see those games....
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Sept 12, 2018 23:25:11 GMT -5
Moose, we’re beating out plenty of FBS schools and some strong FCS schools for recruits. I posted the list below in another thread. Some of the better reported offers made to our verbals: CJ Hanson - Morgan State, Bryant Chris Butash - Toledo, Fordham, Lehigh Ben Blessing - Ohio U, Kent State Sean Morris - Army, Kent State, UNH, Delaware Jonathan Young - UNH, Elon, W&M Patrick McMurtrie - Syracuse, Temple, Buffalo, Central Michigan, UMass Kamryn Molton - Air Force, Army Jared Kreisler - Akron, Eastern Michigan Jacob Dobbs - Youngstown State, Fordham, Lehigh, Brown, Dartmouth i assume that these are all football recruits? they all appear to be solid college football programs. the only traditional big time power listed above is syracuse which has not done that well recently competing against some of the top football powers. what's not clear is whether the "offers" are full rides*, i.e. room, board, tuition, text books. (of course, service academies are always full ride unless you count the 5 yrs owed after graduation) so if a recruit has 3 scholarship offers: 2 partial and one a full ride he will probably accept the full ride all things being equal. if all of the offers listed above are full rides then it is impressive that these recruits chose HC or made a "verbal commitment" over the other programs. if some or most of the other offers are partial scholarships then the commitment to HC was probably more a financial decision. * full ride- NEVER call it a "free ride". there is nothing free about a football or any other NCAA scholarship. if you do so, i will come and find you!
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Sept 12, 2018 23:32:36 GMT -5
BC and Syracuse are incredible "stretches" for our program Moose....even in the best of times....but playing them provides us with a host of positives imo....recruiting, brand-name for the school, playing experience etc etc.....granted, I don't have to line up against some of the bettah college football playahs in the country but I think these types of games are beneficial as a whole in host of ways for our program. It's one, maybe rarely two like next year, games a year...we can do this imo. 10,000 HC fans (and recruits aren't coming to HC to play) aren't going to Smithfield, RI (Bryant) or New Britain, CT (CCSU) to see those games.... since your post is addressed to me i will respond. i disagree for reasons previously stated. we can agree on the following: GO 'SADERS!
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Sept 12, 2018 23:42:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Sept 12, 2018 23:51:01 GMT -5
funny how a student/athlete presumably carrying a full load of college courses and major time commitment to football has time to wander for hours in the boston common. why not? just the way things are today. more power to him.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Sept 13, 2018 5:32:23 GMT -5
Moose, we’re beating out plenty of FBS schools and some strong FCS schools for recruits. I posted the list below in another thread. Some of the better reported offers made to our verbals: CJ Hanson - Morgan State, Bryant Chris Butash - Toledo, Fordham, Lehigh Ben Blessing - Ohio U, Kent State Sean Morris - Army, Kent State, UNH, Delaware Jonathan Young - UNH, Elon, W&M Patrick McMurtrie - Syracuse, Temple, Buffalo, Central Michigan, UMass Kamryn Molton - Air Force, Army Jared Kreisler - Akron, Eastern Michigan Jacob Dobbs - Youngstown State, Fordham, Lehigh, Brown, Dartmouth i assume that these are all football recruits? they all appear to be solid college football programs. the only traditional big time power listed above is syracuse which has not done that well recently competing against some of the top football powers. what's not clear is whether the "offers" are full rides*, i.e. room, board, tuition, text books. (of course, service academies are always full ride unless you count the 5 yrs owed after graduation) so if a recruit has 3 scholarship offers: 2 partial and one a full ride he will probably accept the full ride all things being equal. if all of the offers listed above are full rides then it is impressive that these recruits chose HC or made a "verbal commitment" over the other programs. if some or most of the other offers are partial scholarships then the commitment to HC was probably more a financial decision. * full ride- NEVER call it a "free ride". there is nothing free about a football or any other NCAA scholarship. if you do so, i will come and find you! FBS scholarships are always full scholarships by rule. FCS schools can offer partials. Ivies are allegedly need-based so a kid with an Ivy offer could be paying anything from 0 to the full cost depending on family income.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Sept 13, 2018 6:10:30 GMT -5
BC and Syracuse are incredible "stretches" for our program Moose....even in the best of times....but playing them provides us with a host of positives imo....recruiting, brand-name for the school, playing experience etc etc.....granted, I don't have to line up against some of the bettah college football playahs in the country but I think these types of games are beneficial as a whole in host of ways for our program. It's one, maybe rarely two like next year, games a year...we can do this imo. 10,000 HC fans (and recruits aren't coming to HC to play) aren't going to Smithfield, RI (Bryant) or New Britain, CT (CCSU) to see those games.... I think folks that thought a game between a middling PL (HC) and a quality ACC (BC) would be horribly one-sided were absolutely correct. The competition was over at 6:55 into the first quarter (21-0 BC, Adazzio yanked his star players) and what followed was a continued one-sided affair albeit v 2nd and 3rd stringers.
I was (and still am) one of those folks who thought we'd be better served - in terms of program and team development - playing a URI or a UMaine or even a UMass second game of the year (given that Ivies are unavailable).
At the same time nobody has claimed more fans would come to see HC v Bryant or HC v CCSU (or HC v any NEC or any PL opponent) than saw HC v BC.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 13, 2018 6:33:04 GMT -5
"...we’d have time to ramp up enough to be competitive with BC." "ramp up"? ramp up is a euphemism for big time $$$ HC does not have it and/or willing to spend it. I guess if you consider spending 97 million bucks on a new field house as not having $$, I suppose you're right.
|
|
|
Post by breezy on Sept 13, 2018 6:41:31 GMT -5
Some classy praise from a BC fan:
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 13, 2018 6:44:54 GMT -5
If only he did not wear that maroon and gold
|
|
|
Post by JRGNYR on Sept 13, 2018 8:45:28 GMT -5
i will try to respond as best i can: "You've stated that HC shouldn't play big-time football, and clearly they're not aiming to."When you play a football game v BC, Syracuse, etc you are playing "big time football" (DUH!) " it sounds like you would advocate a move to Division 3 ...or do you think HC can be a competitive D1 football program without scholarships?"
your hypo is incomplete. we can continue playing competitive football v the PL, ivy league, etc. no need to bail out to Div 3! Further, not all D1 teams are the same.i.e. I assume that Army is listed as a D1 school and I could certainly see Coach Chesney bring the team along with time and we should be competitive v Army. I do not see that happening v BC, Syracuse, and other programs like Penn State, ND. Again, a head coach paid $2+ million running a huge program will not allow that to happen. Let's assume that we are competing for a talented football recruit with BC, Syracuse, etc. The argument i hear is that we can tell him that if he comes to HC he can test himself against the best once or twice a year. The big time programs tell him he will compete at the highest level all season. Further, he won't be told that opponents will be limited to the northeast because travel to the west coast etc is too expensive. Today, nothing is "too expensive" for the top D1 programs. The talented football recruit will pick the D1 program every time as they have in the past. also, as a football program tries to become more competitive the pressures to bend and break NCAA rules becomes enormous. In the billion dollar industry called big time college football everyone else is trying to get away with as much as they can. Then why not HC football??? We don't need it! "...is it reasonable to expect a fan base to get as emotionally invested in a game vs. Central Connecticut as a game vs. BC or Syracuse?"
YES, YES and YES! this is what we need. this is what our teams deserve! this is how we can build a successful sports program to continue the proud tradition of HC football. oops, got to go! Thanks for your response. Let me give this a whirl. "When you play a football game v BC, Syracuse, etc you are playing "big time football" (DUH!)"Take a look at the rest of the schedule. Yale, Harvard, the Patriot League, etc. That's D1 football but not big-time football. You're cherry picking one game on the schedule and saying HC is trying to position itself like a big-time program. That's not even remotely true. "your hypo is incomplete. we can continue playing competitive football v the PL, ivy league, etc.
no need to bail out to Div 3!
Further, not all D1 teams are the same.i.e. I assume that Army is listed as a D1 school and I could certainly see Coach Chesney bring the team along with time and we should be competitive v Army.
I do not see that happening v BC, Syracuse, and other programs like Penn State, ND.
Again, a head coach paid $2+ million running a huge program will not allow that to happen."You ignored the point I made about HC largely not being competitive during the non-scholarship era relative to other PL programs. Let me try another route. What do you think of HC's decision to reimplement football scholarships? Are you for or against? If against, what would you have preferred to see? A non-scholarship program competing in a scholarship league? A move to a non-scholarship league? Keep in mind that there's really only one option for that in D1, and you'd largely trade the scholarship expenses for travel expenses with flights to places like Indianapolis, Iowa, etc. "Let's assume that we are competing for a talented football recruit with BC, Syracuse, etc.
The argument i hear is that we can tell him that if he comes to HC he can test himself against the best once or twice a year.
The big time programs tell him he will compete at the highest level all season.
Further, he won't be told that opponents will be limited to the northeast because travel to the west coast etc is too expensive.
Today, nothing is "too expensive" for the top D1 programs.
The talented football recruit will pick the D1 program every time as they have in the past."This has already been largely addressed in another post. It's as if you're saying HC is trying to recruit athletes who are being sought after by Ohio State, Alabama, etc. That's just not happening. "also, as a football program tries to become more competitive the pressures to bend and break NCAA rules becomes enormous.
In the billion dollar industry called big time college football everyone else is trying to get away with as much as they can.
Then why not HC football???
We don't need it!"Who is putting pressure on HC to break the rules? By playing a BC or a Syracuse or UConn once a year, HC is going to feel compelled to break the rules? Really? YES, YES and YES!
this is what we need.
this is what our teams deserve!
this is how we can build a successful sports program to continue the proud tradition of HC football.As I've previously stated, I agree it would be nice but it's not likely to happen. That's just reality. Build a successful, winning program and "a rising tide lifts all ships." HC is trying to make that happen, but it hasn't sold its soul or is masquerading as a big-time program. It's just not.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 13, 2018 10:30:57 GMT -5
In the world of FCS scholarship football, you play a BCS team every year. That's just how it's done now. It's a tradition and a good one. I'm just glad we're still mentioned in the same breath as FBS teams, especially a solid BC team. You can't know which teams are going to be too tough to compete against years in advance when you schedule them, and then try to cherry pick the ones you think you can be competitive in. You schedule your game and you take your chances. For all we knew we could have lost to BC by a touchdown and got creamed by UConn last year.
Players want it. Coaches want it. Alumni want it. Administration wants it. So for the foreseeable future that's just how it's going to be.
Plus it's only one game, one loss. The players and coaches have moved on. I suggest we do the same.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 13, 2018 11:31:56 GMT -5
Won't it be 2 games in some years?
|
|
|
Post by southernsader on Sept 13, 2018 11:48:03 GMT -5
Alumni want it? I'm sure that is true among the majority of local New England alumni. Equally sure that many of us find it embarrassing to offer ourselves up for slaughter and public humiliation.
|
|
|
Post by joe on Sept 13, 2018 11:59:36 GMT -5
Really? These are men, not children. They are not being humiliated.
You lose big in football sometimes. You lose big in life sometimes too. It doesn't mean you don't keep competing.
Glad I'm not in the trenches with you.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Sept 13, 2018 12:02:58 GMT -5
As a non-New England alum, I have to say I like it. I once was quite opposed to it, but I have come around.
I have used the quote at the bottom of each post for a while now. It seems to be taking on real meaning this year.
|
|
|
Post by Chu Chu on Sept 13, 2018 12:47:52 GMT -5
Some classy praise from a BC fan: I am one who hails from the past, when BC was anathema. The experience of this game has transformed me, however. I am now a BC fan. This game obviously seems to have meant more to us, but the BC administration, coaches, players and fans have all been gracious about this game, and the announcers on TV commented about that, and the history of our rivalry. The way we turned out was noteworthy, and it feels really good to see Holy Cross a part of New England football on center stage.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Sept 13, 2018 12:51:53 GMT -5
Say it ain’t so, Chu
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Sept 13, 2018 12:54:30 GMT -5
If we're being brutally honest, BC has been putting a whuppin' on us in football for almost 50 years now (with a small window in the late 70s/early 80s when the games were competitive)....doesn't change the fact that it's a good "game" for both schools to play every few years.
As others have noted...this game is hardly an outlier in today's college football. Yeah it sucks to get beat like that but the intangibles of playing/scheduling a BC or a Syracuse can't be discounted: it definitely helps recruiting (it did in the 80s too...was talking to formah OL Mike Savage at the beach this summer who said he chose HC ovah some Ivies because we played BC and Army then), helps the school brand/name, gets the team ready for FCS/PL games, get some $$$ for our trouble etc etc etc.
|
|
|
Post by rickii on Sept 13, 2018 13:32:46 GMT -5
i will try to respond as best i can: "You've stated that HC shouldn't play big-time football, and clearly they're not aiming to."When you play a football game v BC, Syracuse, etc you are playing "big time football" (DUH!) " it sounds like you would advocate a move to Division 3 ...or do you think HC can be a competitive D1 football program without scholarships?"
your hypo is incomplete. we can continue playing competitive football v the PL, ivy league, etc. no need to bail out to Div 3! Further, not all D1 teams are the same.i.e. I assume that Army is listed as a D1 school and I could certainly see Coach Chesney bring the team along with time and we should be competitive v Army. I do not see that happening v BC, Syracuse, and other programs like Penn State, ND. Again, a head coach paid $2+ million running a huge program will not allow that to happen. Let's assume that we are competing for a talented football recruit with BC, Syracuse, etc. The argument i hear is that we can tell him that if he comes to HC he can test himself against the best once or twice a year. The big time programs tell him he will compete at the highest level all season. Further, he won't be told that opponents will be limited to the northeast because travel to the west coast etc is too expensive. Today, nothing is "too expensive" for the top D1 programs. The talented football recruit will pick the D1 program every time as they have in the past. also, as a football program tries to become more competitive the pressures to bend and break NCAA rules becomes enormous. In the billion dollar industry called big time college football everyone else is trying to get away with as much as they can. Then why not HC football??? We don't need it! "...is it reasonable to expect a fan base to get as emotionally invested in a game vs. Central Connecticut as a game vs. BC or Syracuse?"
YES, YES and YES! this is what we need. this is what our teams deserve! this is how we can build a successful sports program to continue the proud tradition of HC football. oops, got to go! What did you think of the BC pre-game hype video....specifically the comments made by Gordie , Verrette and other former football players like yourself ?
|
|
|
Post by dharry13 on Sept 13, 2018 13:43:34 GMT -5
We're on to Yale.
|
|