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Post by Tom on Feb 4, 2019 11:30:21 GMT -5
Maybe have Worcester build a nice new basketball arena to play in. Keep DCU as a hockey rink, it is much to big for that anyway. A new arena would really make the team be downtown Worcester. Or go back to the Worcester Auditorium 226-64 in the building all time. To really make the team be downtown Worcester. Watched UIC play a game over the weekend, They play in a 6,000 seat arena and they barely draw over 2,000. But what is nice about it is that it is all seats. Bleachers are such a high school thing. They have some money use it for chairs. The city of Worcester is spending a good chunk of money on a new baseball stadium, I don't see another arena being built, especially since the Centrum is perfectly serviceable for basketball I think the Auditorium had been condemned. For a while there was some courthouse overflow in there, but that ended some years ago, prior to the new courthouse. I think it's unsafe to go in there now. Even in it's heyday, it didn't seat as many as Hart
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Post by bison137 on Feb 4, 2019 12:29:55 GMT -5
Maybe have Worcester build a nice new basketball arena to play in. Keep DCU as a hockey rink, it is much to big for that anyway. A new arena would really make the team be downtown Worcester. Why would Worcester spend $60+ Million on a new basketball arena, especially when they already have one? The chance of this happening is about the same as the chance of the Red Sox leaving Fenway to play in the Worcester baseball stadium.
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Post by thecrossisback on Feb 4, 2019 12:44:34 GMT -5
The Auditorium has not been in use for years, but the city is deciding on what to do with it. It does not have much parking and the two old Worcester Tech buildings across the street are apartments and one is becoming a school for students with autism. The DCU is ok, but it can get expensive if you have to pay for parking, tickets and food every game. DCU also seats 12,000 so without at least 3,000 it looks empty. I would also say the DCU needs new hoops and a new floor. It does have a Jumbotron, if it works. DCU might work if you have HC students got to the game to make it somewhat loud. I also wonder if the players and coaches even like to play at the DCU? Its to bad that no big out of conference team will come play us at the Hart. They make us to play 2 games away and 1 at DCU. BU had the Aggains Arena, but it was way to big for their program. Never been to Case Gym, but I like arenas with seats behind the basket.
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Post by thecrossisback on Feb 4, 2019 12:57:26 GMT -5
Maybe have Worcester build a nice new basketball arena to play in. Keep DCU as a hockey rink, it is much to big for that anyway. A new arena would really make the team be downtown Worcester. Why would Worcester spend $60+ Million on a new basketball arena, especially when they already have one? The chance of this happening is about the same as the chance of the Red Sox leaving Fenway to play in the Worcester baseball stadium. Maybe, but DCU is not really a basketball arena. I think it would be a good idea, high schools could play their championships there. Since now they play at DCU or Clark or Worcester State. You can play other sports on the basketball court concerts. That new basketball team the 78's could play there. Celtics used to play an exhibition at DCU, you could do that. Globetrotters or whatever you want. You also could have a college basketball tournament and you don't even have to get involved with the DCU. Why should Worcester with all its history of basketball not be able to have an arena. Hockey rinks are going up like the new Worcester Ice Center, you have the DCU as well for hockey. Baseball is getting a new stadium. Sports are growing here. To your Red Sox point, they probably should They need a new stadium, Fenway is to old and dumpy. I get the whole history except who goes to the game and gets excited because Ted Williams played on that field. I never understood the history argument and I am a big sports history fan. They could build such a beautiful stadium outside of Boston and have a Green monster and thousands of more seats. But I am not a Red Sox fan, so they don't care about my opinion I would just say every single major stadium and arena outside of Wrigley and Fenway were torn down. Examples such as Yankee Stadium, Shea Stadium, Polo Grounds, Ebbets Field, Montreal Fourm, Boston Garden, Detroit Olympia, Three Rivers Stadium, Candelstick park and Chicago Stadium.
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Post by Tom on Feb 4, 2019 13:00:43 GMT -5
The Auditorium has not been in use for years, but the city is deciding on what to do with it. It does not have much parking and the two old Worcester Tech buildings across the street are apartments and one is becoming a school for students with autism. The DCU is ok, but it can get expensive if you have to pay for parking, tickets and food every game. DCU also seats 12,000 so without at least 3,000 it looks empty. I would also say the DCU needs new hoops and a new floor. It does have a Jumbotron, if it works. DCU might work if you have HC students got to the game to make it somewhat loud. I also wonder if the players and coaches even like to play at the DCU? Its to bad that no big out of conference team will come play us at the Hart. They make us to play 2 games away and 1 at DCU. BU had the Aggains Arena, but it was way to big for their program. Never been to Case Gym, but I like arenas with seats behind the basket. They use curtains to block off basically all of the balcony which cuts seating about in half Hart has a nice set-up if you're concerned about the price of food. Set up only one stand, make sure it's not overly efficient, and very few people can get food without missing part of the game. There's a cost savings on food if you can't get any
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Post by possum on Feb 4, 2019 14:14:42 GMT -5
Worcester already built an arena with the anticipation that HC would be a major participant instead the college decided to de-emphasize the sport, doubt there is any appetite in the city to spend any money to accommodate HC athletics.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 4, 2019 16:04:37 GMT -5
With global warming progressing, why not just play outdoors on Fitton Field to handle the crowds from a new league. The free plubicity from cars going by on the highway would be priceless.😋
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Post by sader87 on Feb 4, 2019 20:06:52 GMT -5
I know people from Bucknell, Colgate and Lehigh. That may be your view from the outside. I have heard others PL people express other views. Regardless, we shouldn’t be talking about how the league holds us back. We have a long way to go to express that view on this board. Just my opinion, which ain’t worth much. IMHO I agree that all this talk about the PL holding HC back does not make any sense. (cf.rgs318.) We have not even been up to the standards of PL competition. However, I understand the extreme frustration which is the source of these outcries. So many  devoted posters are totally torn up in frustration at all the losing over these many years. Let's hope and pray that HC turns it around.  LoveHC I was reading the note from our non-alum poster about the other PL schools drawing more nationally and internationally than HC. While that is true with BU for sure and likely American, I can’t speak to whether that is true for the others. But it made me think - did we lose some recruiting ability when we lost the 3-2 engineering program with WPI? It’s been brought up before, but other schools within the PL offer degrees we do not - doesn’t that give them another recruiting advantage? I recall some players in the 80’s utilizing this program. Regardless of recruiting, I thought it was a great concept in the day to allow some additional educational opportunities / diversity at HC.
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Post by hc87 on Feb 4, 2019 21:54:07 GMT -5
I believe we do it with Columbia now which logistically doesn't work for varsity athletes (playing at HC for 4-5 years) obviously.
I agree though...knew a fair amount of football guys who did that program in the 80s...I wondah what other programs HC could implement...business with Babson? Masters in something with Clark? etc etc Some of these may exist...I truly don't know.
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Post by HCFC45 on Feb 4, 2019 21:57:27 GMT -5
IMHO I agree that all this talk about the PL holding HC back does not make any sense. (cf.rgs318.) We have not even been up to the standards of PL competition. However, I understand the extreme frustration which is the source of these outcries. So many devoted posters are totally torn up in frustration at all the losing over these many years. Let's hope and pray that HC turns it around. LoveHC I was reading the note from our non-alum poster about the other PL schools drawing more nationally and internationally than HC. While that is true with BU for sure and likely American, I can’t speak to whether that is true for the others. But it made me think - did we lose some recruiting ability when we lost the 3-2 engineering program with WPI? It’s been brought up before, but other schools within the PL offer degrees we do not - doesn’t that give them another recruiting advantage? I recall some players in the 80’s utilizing this program. Regardless of recruiting, I thought it was a great concept in the day to allow some additional educational opportunities / diversity at HC.Yes, other schools in the PL offer degrees we do not! Business, engineering are two that come to mind.
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Post by Tom on Feb 5, 2019 9:09:20 GMT -5
IMHO I agree that all this talk about the PL holding HC back does not make any sense. (cf.rgs318.) We have not even been up to the standards of PL competition. However, I understand the extreme frustration which is the source of these outcries. So many devoted posters are totally torn up in frustration at all the losing over these many years. Let's hope and pray that HC turns it around. LoveHC I was reading the note from our non-alum poster about the other PL schools drawing more nationally and internationally than HC. While that is true with BU for sure and likely American, I can’t speak to whether that is true for the others. But it made me think - did we lose some recruiting ability when we lost the 3-2 engineering program with WPI? It’s been brought up before, but other schools within the PL offer degrees we do not - doesn’t that give them another recruiting advantage? I recall some players in the 80’s utilizing this program. Regardless of recruiting, I thought it was a great concept in the day to allow some additional educational opportunities / diversity at HC. I decided to give Nate Pine my unsolicited opinion on this matter last Spring. It was more of a football thing, but told Nate that former coach Rick Carter used it as a recruiting tool. (I think there were 3 football players my year who were in the program) The program still exists today with Columbia and I believe Dartmouth. The structure is already in place. If memory serves it was HC who pulled out of the arrangement with WPI. Nate graciously thanked me for my input and said it was one of the better alumnus inputs he received. Obviously, that could have been his polite way of telling me to mind my own business Obviously, this was before he decided to go off to the wild blue yonder. In an academic first institution in the 21st century, the pool of prospective athletes is going to be narrowed if you exclude engineers.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Feb 5, 2019 9:17:54 GMT -5
Worcester already built an arena with the anticipation that HC would be a major participant instead the college decided to de-emphasize the sport, doubt there is any appetite in the city to spend any money to accommodate HC athletics. I'm an old (72) Worcester native, huge HC fan my entire life but not a grad. Without a strong mayor form of government, change in Worcester happens very slowly. It took a referendum, if I recall correctly, to get the Centrum built (now DCU) and it barely passed. And part of the argument in favor of building it was what possum wrote above. I'm still amazed that the City got it together to bring the PawSox here. Regarding HC leaving the PL to join a stronger league; it might work but it would be a big gamble. Like the women's hockey team, the first couple of years would be tough to take but it could pay off later on. I just don't see it happening. HC is like the city in which it resides - not a risk taker.
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Post by trimster on Feb 5, 2019 10:23:43 GMT -5
I believe it took two referendums before the go ahead to build the Centrum passed. As far as a new league is concerned, I doubt there is much if any desire on the part of decision makers on the hill to move to a more high profile conference. Even if there were, I don't see any takers out there. You can forget about the Big East and the A 10 is already bursting at the seams with 14 members.
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Post by nhteamer on Feb 5, 2019 11:46:15 GMT -5
I agree with those who think we look silly when we simultaneously talk about being to good for the PL and getting our ass kicked. It would be funny if it wasn't pathetic.
When the PL was formed we were too good for the league. A man, once thought wise, once said " you are judged by the company you keep."
So, alas, we now suck worse than a sucky league. Thank you JEB
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Post by realism on Feb 5, 2019 14:41:26 GMT -5
I agree with those who think we look silly when we simultaneously talk about being to good for the PL and getting our ass kicked. It would be funny if it wasn't pathetic. When the PL was formed we A man, once thought wise, once said " you are judged by the company you keep." So, alas, we now suck worse than a sucky league. Thank you JEB My My !!--how things have changed ! For argument's sake, let's put aside the current athletic disparity between HC and the PL. Most of the PL schools admission applications have been growing 2% annually. With the exception of Loyola of Maryland ( 65% ) and American ( 29% ), most of the PL schools have acceptance rates in the mid 20% area trending toward the low 20's. Granted, HC's product ( Jesuit liberal arts ) could be considered a narrow market relative to the other schools. But, it's also fighting the declining college aged population in New England and the shrinking number of kids graduating from Catholic high schools matriculating to Catholic colleges. Coupled with the stalling of the athletic program turnaround, it's important for alums to understand how HC's trajectory is moving in a direction different than most of the other PL institutions. This is neither the HC that you bought into x number of years ago, nor the Patriot League HC bought into 25+ years ago. What's HC doing about all of this ? HC has become a regional brand in a league whose student bodies are growing from ever more diversification from around the nation and internationally. A lot has changed since HC was considered "too good for the league." If HC is "judged by the company it keeps," it can only be categorized as "a fish out of water."
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 5, 2019 15:12:02 GMT -5
I agree with those who think we look silly when we simultaneously talk about being to good for the PL and getting our ass kicked. It would be funny if it wasn't pathetic. When the PL was formed we were too good for the league. A man, once thought wise, once said " you are judged by the company you keep." So, alas, we now suck worse than a sucky league. Thank you JEB Who here has said "HC is too good for the PL"? Show me one post from anyone that states this.
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Post by nhteamer on Feb 5, 2019 15:48:42 GMT -5
when there is endless banter about "moving up" in leagues is it not assumed that some feel be are too good for the league in which we now compete?
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Post by timholycross on Feb 5, 2019 17:37:59 GMT -5
I was reading the note from our non-alum poster about the other PL schools drawing more nationally and internationally than HC. While that is true with BU for sure and likely American, I can’t speak to whether that is true for the others. But it made me think - did we lose some recruiting ability when we lost the 3-2 engineering program with WPI? It’s been brought up before, but other schools within the PL offer degrees we do not - doesn’t that give them another recruiting advantage? I recall some players in the 80’s utilizing this program. Regardless of recruiting, I thought it was a great concept in the day to allow some additional educational opportunities / diversity at HC. I decided to give Nate Pine my unsolicited opinion on this matter last Spring. It was more of a football thing, but told Nate that former coach Rick Carter used it as a recruiting tool. (I think there were 3 football players my year who were in the program) The program still exists today with Columbia and I believe Dartmouth. The structure is already in place. If memory serves it was HC who pulled out of the arrangement with WPI. Nate graciously thanked me for my input and said it was one of the better alumnus inputs he received. Obviously, that could have been his polite way of telling me to mind my own business Obviously, this was before he decided to go off to the wild blue yonder. In an academic first institution in the 21st century, the pool of prospective athletes is going to be narrowed if you exclude engineers. There also would exist the possibility of legitimately redshirting a few kids. Not like anyone in that situation would be taking a reduced or easy course load. You had to go full time 5 years to get that kind of degree (or go summers), I'm pretty sure.
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Post by hc6774 on Feb 5, 2019 17:56:55 GMT -5
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Feb 5, 2019 18:00:41 GMT -5
when there is endless banter about "moving up" in leagues is it not assumed that some feel be are too good for the league in which we now compete? The sporadic banter is wishing the team could get out of the bottom-feeder PL. It's a sentiment most of us have. This by no means equates that people think HC is too good for the PL. It's merely a wish.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 5, 2019 18:35:59 GMT -5
when there is endless banter about "moving up" in leagues is it not assumed that some feel be are too good for the league in which we now compete? The sporadic banter is wishing the team could get out of the bottom-feeder PL. It's a sentiment most of us have. This by no means equates that people think HC is too good for the PL. It's merely a wish. Right now the bottom-feeder PL ranks ahead of the MAAC. Ahead of the CAA. Ahead of AE. Ahead of NEC. Which are the only four leagues HC could move to.
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Post by Tom on Feb 6, 2019 8:55:56 GMT -5
Despite the name 3-2, it worked differently with WPI. More of a 1-3-1 (no pun intended). One year just at HC, Three years running across the city attending both, One year just at WPI. At the end you get two bachelors - one from each school. There would be no opportunity for red shirting because in that 5th year, the student has graduated from HC and is not enrolled there
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Post by hc6774 on Feb 6, 2019 9:29:02 GMT -5
Despite the name 3-2, it worked differently with WPI. More of a 1-3-1 (no pun intended). One year just at HC, Three years running across the city attending both, One year just at WPI. At the end you get two bachelors - one from each school. There would be no opportunity for red shirting because in that 5th year, the student has graduated from HC and is not enrolled there I believe that the Columbia arrangement has been in place for at least 10 yrs... friends in Worcester had a son who did his last 2 yrs at Columbia... I have had discussions the NROTC about this program; in general the Navy requires that an ROTC student must be commissioned and go on active duty when the 4 year bachelor's degree is awarded... however the student could get a waiver for a 5th year to complete the degree if circumstances are approved. The HC Navy staff understands that the 3-2 program awards 2 bachelors, one from each school, upon completion of the 5th year and thus would be eligible for the waiver. Also Columbia provides NROTC through Kings Point which would facilitate the use of the student's ROTC scholarship. That said I'm not aware of any HC NROTC student using this program in the last 10 years.
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Post by mattb on Feb 6, 2019 10:13:54 GMT -5
As a PL-non-HC alum, I don't think it's a fair characterization that "the PL laughs at HC." As a reader of this board over the past few years, I think the outlandish statements here reflect the pain of an institutional identity crisis. Despite constantly talking about the damage done to HC's idealized past, I don't think posters have truly reckoned with how much damage has been done--how the world has moved on. Looking squarely at how out of sync HC's athletic program is relative to the rest of the PL, when it's supposedly in rehab, is painful . Posters rightfully speculate about what it will take to feel like it has recovered to a level that is acceptable. Most of the PL brands are flourishing as institutions that have geographically diversified their student bodies nationally and internationally. And have found athletic balance compatible with their brands within the PL-- and nationally when desired. If a niche within the PL continues to elude HC, perhaps it's not the right fit. But, it's surely not the source of HC's problems. It's only the place where these problems are put on display for all to see. If it's time to move on, the PL will be among HC's strongest well-wishers. I know people from Bucknell, Colgate and Lehigh. That may be your view from the outside. I have heard others PL people express other views. Regardless, we shouldn’t be talking about how the league holds us back. We have a long way to go to express that view on this board. Just my opinion, which ain’t worth much. For what it's worth, I have been laughing at this board's view of HC hoops for 20 years or so. Y'all never change. Good luck in the Big East? Or is it the fantasy Catholic Conference you're still putting together somewhere? Will check back in 5 years and see how it's going. Yer old Pal MattB
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 6, 2019 12:02:40 GMT -5
mattb, Welcome to CROSSPORTS. You seem to be relatively sane, so this may not be a place for you. I hope I am still around when you post again in 5 years. Be well!
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