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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 7:48:38 GMT -5
The season is over, there is no reason to keep the coach except money. HC has more talent than most PL schools. It doesn’t show in the box score. I honestly believe that. Very disappointing. Time to turn the page. I have to disagree with this. Talent is just not there. Floyd should average 20 and 15 but doesn't. The next best player Grandison vanishes for games on time. I don't see a fire in this team. I see going through the motions. Women have the same problems. Just think its the kind of player that's being recruited.
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Post by classof83 on Feb 14, 2019 7:59:37 GMT -5
I know the the proverbial "buck" stops with BC and I also don't know how important the Assistant Coaches are, but does anyone think this team misses Joe Scott? He had been a former head coach at Princeton, Denver and Air Force. According to his Bio - when he was at Princeton - his 2006-2007 team lead the nation in scoring defense. It seems to me we lost a lot when he left and we really didn't look to replace that experience.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 14, 2019 8:02:22 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree. Not executing in key moments does not mean lack of fire imho. Team certainly looked fired up at the under 4 timeout in the first half , turning towards their football peers and gesturing.
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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 8:05:59 GMT -5
The intensity is just not there for the full 40. Too many lapses, too many slumps too often.
Where's Jared Curry when you need him.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Feb 14, 2019 8:07:46 GMT -5
The season is over, there is no reason to keep the coach except money. HC has more talent than most PL schools. It doesn’t show in the box score. I honestly believe that. Very disappointing. Time to turn the page. I have to disagree with this. Talent is just not there. Floyd should average 20 and 15 but doesn't. The next best player Grandison vanishes for games on time. I don't see a fire in this team. I see going through the motions. Women have the same problems. Just think its the kind of player that's being recruited. Neither the men nor the women are "going through the motions". End of game miscues are killing the men's team. Have lost 4/5 PL games that could have been wins. HC has equal, not more, talent to most PL teams. Cannot understand why ball is not in Floyd's hands near basket in final minutes. Frustrating.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 14, 2019 8:23:45 GMT -5
I know the the proverbial "buck" stops with BC and I also don't know how important the Assistant Coaches are, but does anyone think this team misses Joe Scott? He had been a former head coach at Princeton, Denver and Air Force. According to his Bio - when he was at Princeton - his 2006-2007 team lead the nation in scoring defense. It seems to me we lost a lot when he left and we really didn't look to replace that experience. I always felt that Joe Scott's presence on the staff was part of the problem. More than just Carmody's protege, Scott was his doppelganger. Having your top assistant be a guy who thinks exactly the way you do has advantages, I suppose, but also disadvantages - Scott's teams, like Carmody's, rarely defended or rebounded well, and didn't get to the foul line. The staff would have benefited by having somebody with a complementary approach, imo.
As for his stint at Princeton, Scott compiled the worst W-L record of any coach there since WW2.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 14, 2019 8:35:30 GMT -5
gks, it might just be me but this seems to be contradicting yourself in sequential sentences.
Wouldn't being able to score 20 and 15 rebounds be talented? Yet, he doesn't. So, if he has the talent to do that, what is the explanation? It isn't lack of talent.
IMHO, it isn't lack of talent. It isn't for lack of trying on the part of the players. And, I again reject the notion it is because opposing coaches know how to defend Holy Cross because of their familiarity because that should cut both ways. If they are familiar with our play, we darn well better be familiar with their play and defend accordingly. That is not happening and that is not on the players. Poor game preparation and inability to adjust.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 14, 2019 8:35:59 GMT -5
In trying to be fair, while I think there have been some execution issues by the players, the coaches need to do a better job at putting them in a position to succeed. But - I think this is a matter of inches and feet, and not miles and miles like some of you seem to think it is.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 14, 2019 8:43:30 GMT -5
Basketball, like football and most sports, is a game of inches. Just miss a field goal by an inch; or a first down; or a basketball shot rims out; or a rebound gets missed by a half inch into the hands of the opposing player. The expression getting "50/50" loose balls comes to mind.
So, I agree Dave, but who is supposed to make the difference in those inches and feet? I believe the players are doing as much as they can.
And, kudos, to the football players for their strong support last night. Hopefully, they will also show up vs. Bucknell.
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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 8:44:32 GMT -5
gks, it might just be me but this seems to be contradicting yourself in sequential sentences. Wouldn't being able to score 20 and 15 rebounds be talented? Yet, he doesn't. So, if he has the talent to do that, what is the explanation? It isn't lack of talent. IMHO, it isn't lack of talent. It isn't for lack of trying on the part of the players. And, I again reject the notion it is because opposing coaches know how to defend Holy Cross because of their familiarity because that should cut both ways. If they are familiar with our play, we darn well better be familiar with their play and defend accordingly. That is not happening and that is not on the players. Poor game preparation and inability to adjust. Floyd is very talented and a beast. Should be dominating this league. Other than him....I just don't see much there. PL is a tough, physical league. The pattern of falling apart late in games tell me that they are not playing the full 40. I can't just blame the coaches for the poor play in the league.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 14, 2019 8:44:47 GMT -5
Teams that chronically do not defend well, are poor rebounders at both ends of the floor, and cannot find a way to get to the foul line are not likely to be successful, imo, no matter how well they pass-dribble-shoot. These are not deficiencies of any particular players - they are, and have been for many years, characteristic deficiencies of the system our players are being asked to operate within.
The system is not going to change, and I'm afraid the results won't, either.
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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 8:54:25 GMT -5
Teams that chronically do not defend well, are poor rebounders at both ends of the floor, and cannot find a way to get to the foul line are not likely to be successful, imo, no matter how well they pass-dribble-shoot. These are not deficiencies of any particular players - they are, and have been for many years, characteristic deficiencies of the system our players are being asked to operate within. The system is not going to change, and I'm afraid the results won't, either. Going back 10 seasons only one player has at HC has averaged over 8 rebounds per game in a season. Andrew Keister did it twice. Rebounding is effort. I don't think Carmody's system tells the players not to rebound.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 14, 2019 9:00:39 GMT -5
So, I agree Dave, but who is supposed to make the difference in those inches and feet? I believe the players are doing as much as they can. Well, at Lafayette CLS took an I'll advised 3, that turned into a transition 3 at the other end late in the game. KC had the 2 costly turnovers last night; MF was not strong with the ball and got stripped for a layup. Taking care of the ball is supposed to be one of the pillars of the philosophy; hard for me to blame the coaches in those instances. Then there's the missed free throws. I'm just saying there is blame to go around, if we MUST assign blame. I thought all along there would be these type of close games this year; I just thought we would get our share of them.
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Post by joe on Feb 14, 2019 9:01:29 GMT -5
Seems like we've reverted to wasting half of our possessions passing the ball around the perimeter. Seems like if there are no drives to pull the defense in, there's really not going to be much in the way off offensive production. I like our players, and it's obvious our players like one another. I just don't see much chemistry as a team right now.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 14, 2019 9:02:05 GMT -5
Well, besides the "we don't shoot it so well"* we have yet another game where the opposing team made more free throws than we attempted. Colgate 13 for 19 from the charity stripe; Holy Cross 4 for 7. Another cardinal sin, fouling a 3 point shooter who makes all 3.
* actually shooting not bad at all, 51.9% and 44.4% from 3. But, they shot better.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 14, 2019 9:06:17 GMT -5
In trying to be fair, while I think there have been some execution issues by the players, the coaches need to do a better job at putting them in a position to succeed. But - I think this is a matter of inches and feet, and not miles and miles like some of you seem to think it is. Dave, Carmody would say that it all falls on the players — “We just didn't get the shots we wanted," Holy Cross coach Bill Carmody said. "We just didn't come through. You have to make a play. Someone has to make a play. It's hard, but it's a familiar pattern that I see."
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 14, 2019 9:08:29 GMT -5
Carmody's system sacrifices rebounding at the offensive end in the interest of getting back on defense. Carmody's teams at Northwestern and Holy Cross have usually rebounded poorly at the defensive end as well, largely I suspect because of defensive schemes that leave the players out of position to box and retrieve. Whatever the reason, the data are what they are. It's not the numbers individual players rack up, it's how the team performs. I've looked back at the last 40+ years of Holy Cross basketball, and nearly all of those teams out-rebounded opponents or were at least competitive on the boards. The 2018-19 team has been out-rebounded by two hundred and three - 203 - or nearly eight per game. It's been closer to nine per game in conference. There is only one team in the history of this program that has remotely rivaled this level of ineptitude - the 2016-17 team, which went -273 (~8.5 per).
It's the system.
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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 9:10:21 GMT -5
In trying to be fair, while I think there have been some execution issues by the players, the coaches need to do a better job at putting them in a position to succeed. But - I think this is a matter of inches and feet, and not miles and miles like some of you seem to think it is. Dave, Carmody would say that it all falls on the players — “We just didn't get the shots we wanted," Holy Cross coach Bill Carmody said. "We just didn't come through. You have to make a play. Someone has to make a play. It's hard, but it's a familiar pattern that I see." What can the coaches better do to make them succeed? I don't think that Grandson 3 late in the game is what Carmody drew up.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 14, 2019 9:11:07 GMT -5
All good points, Dave. Note that CLS (makes me a little "icky" typing that as it reminds me too much of "MBS") did not set foot on the court last night. And, yep, I recall KC's turnovers and his stat line was empty except for those and 1 steal. But, he brings a lot to the table and a disrupter on defense and, unlike many of the sophomores, he truly is inexperienced and the variability of his play will be greater than a CG or JG or MF.
As for missed free throws, sorry most of that is on the coaching staff because JF was 1 for 3 and a certain coach said that wasn't a priority for him to get better because he does other things. Of course the coaches and Jehyve want him to shoot better but there is not going to be an emphasis on that. The issue was more lack of attempts last night. Grandy was 2 for 2 and AB was 1 for 2 and that was it.
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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 9:13:58 GMT -5
All good points, Dave. Note that CLS (makes me a little "icky" typing that as it reminds me too much of "MBS") did not set foot on the court last night. And, yep, I recall KC's turnovers and his stat line was empty except for those and 1 steal. But, he brings a lot to the table and a disrupter on defense and, unlike many of the sophomores, he truly is inexperienced and the variability of his play will be greater than a CG or JG or MF. As for missed free throws, sorry most of that is on the coaching staff because JF was 1 for 3 and a certain coach said that wasn't a priority for him to get better because he does other things. Of course the coaches and Jehyve want him to shoot better but there is not going to be an emphasis on that. The issue was more lack of attempts last night. Grandy was 2 for 2 and AB was 1 for 2 and that was it. Free throw shooting is on the player. What are you doing all summer? Get out there and shoot. It's too late now.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 14, 2019 9:16:25 GMT -5
I thought all along there would be these type of close games this year; I just thought we would get our share of them.Actually, we have. We're 5-5 this season in games decided by five points or less. If that's surprising, maybe it's because we were 4-0 in the OOC in those games, and just 1-5 in conference. Which tells us something, too, maybe.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 14, 2019 9:18:28 GMT -5
Free throw shooting is on the player. Not getting to the line is on the system.
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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 9:20:56 GMT -5
Free throw shooting is on the player. Not getting to the line is on the system. That is true. Got to make them when you're there though.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 14, 2019 9:22:27 GMT -5
Dave, Carmody would say that it all falls on the players — “We just didn't get the shots we wanted," Holy Cross coach Bill Carmody said. "We just didn't come through. You have to make a play. Someone has to make a play. It's hard, but it's a familiar pattern that I see." What can the coaches better do to make them succeed? I don't think that Grandson 3 late in the game is what Carmody drew up. I posted our final six possessions of the game earlier in this thread. Three of those possessions ended in a turnover. We looked incredibly disorganized. This isn’t on a “player making a play” (by the way, doesn’t that quote sound like a former coach of HC basketball?), it’s on Carmody. Langel really outdueled him in the final four minutes.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 14, 2019 9:22:54 GMT -5
In trying to be fair, while I think there have been some execution issues by the players, the coaches need to do a better job at putting them in a position to succeed. But - I think this is a matter of inches and feet, and not miles and miles like some of you seem to think it is. Dave, Carmody would say that it all falls on the players — “We just didn't get the shots we wanted," Holy Cross coach Bill Carmody said. "We just didn't come through. You have to make a play. Someone has to make a play. It's hard, but it's a familiar pattern that I see." Well, at some point, the buck will stop with the coach if it doesn't get straightened out, that's for sure.
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