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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 14, 2019 9:23:28 GMT -5
Not getting to the line is on the system. That is true. Got to make them when you're there though. There are only six teams in the country that get to the line at a worse rate than we do. As WooGray likes to say, “it’s baked in the cake.”
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 14, 2019 9:42:11 GMT -5
FWIW, I also thought Colgate played like the more experienced team down the stretch. They deserve credit, especially given the heat they were getting from the football team.
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Post by Ray on Feb 14, 2019 9:45:25 GMT -5
In trying to be fair, while I think there have been some execution issues by the players, the coaches need to do a better job at putting them in a position to succeed. But - I think this is a matter of inches and feet, and not miles and miles like some of you seem to think it is. Dave, Carmody would say that it all falls on the players — “We just didn't get the shots we wanted," Holy Cross coach Bill Carmody said. "We just didn't come through. You have to make a play. Someone has to make a play. It's hard, but it's a familiar pattern that I see." To be even-handed, this is the kind of quote from BC that made me absolutely crazy when it came out of Milan Brown's mouth.
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Post by gks on Feb 14, 2019 9:51:12 GMT -5
Dave, Carmody would say that it all falls on the players — “We just didn't get the shots we wanted," Holy Cross coach Bill Carmody said. "We just didn't come through. You have to make a play. Someone has to make a play. It's hard, but it's a familiar pattern that I see." To be even-handed, this is the kind of quote from BC that made me absolutely crazy when it came out of Milan Brown's mouth. Carmody has a point. One made basket down the stretch, one less turnover, one rebound and that's a win. Your best five are not getting it done in crunch time in PL play. They are just not a good basketball team right now.
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Post by Tom on Feb 14, 2019 10:02:03 GMT -5
All good points, Dave. Note that CLS (makes me a little "icky" typing that as it reminds me too much of "MBS") did not set foot on the court last night. And, yep, I recall KC's turnovers and his stat line was empty except for those and 1 steal. But, he brings a lot to the table and a disrupter on defense and, unlike many of the sophomores, he truly is inexperienced and the variability of his play will be greater than a CG or JG or MF. As for missed free throws, sorry most of that is on the coaching staff because JF was 1 for 3 and a certain coach said that wasn't a priority for him to get better because he does other things. Of course the coaches and Jehyve want him to shoot better but there is not going to be an emphasis on that. The issue was more lack of attempts last night. Grandy was 2 for 2 and AB was 1 for 2 and that was it. Free throw shooting is on the player. What are you doing all summer? Get out there and shoot. It's too late now. In part. If your mechanics aren't right, you can put up a million free throws and just reinforce bad habits. You might recall Josh Sankes who was a pretty horrible free throw shooter. Ron Perry Sr took him aside and taught him to how to shoot free throws. Sankes wasn't stellar at the line as a senior, but had incredible improvement after working with a "coach"
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 14, 2019 10:12:45 GMT -5
So, I agree Dave, but who is supposed to make the difference in those inches and feet? I believe the players are doing as much as they can. Well, at Lafayette CLS took an I'll advised 3, that turned into a transition 3 at the other end late in the game. KC had the 2 costly turnovers last night; MF was not strong with the ball and got stripped for a layup. Taking care of the ball is supposed to be one of the pillars of the philosophy; hard for me to blame the coaches in those instances. Then there's the missed free throws. I'm just saying there is blame to go around, if we MUST assign blame. I thought all along there would be these type of close games this year; I just thought we would get our share of them. Who is responsible for having Le Seann and Copeland in the game down the stretch of a game? It would be a different story if Carmody drew up a play for Floyd to have a dunk and he missed, or Carmody drew up a play that got Grandison the ball in a position to exploit the defense and he turned it over, or Carmody drew up a pick & roll for Green to handle the ball and he dribbled it off his foot. Having Le Seann and Copeland in the game during a crunch time is a coaching mistake.
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Post by classof83 on Feb 14, 2019 10:21:50 GMT -5
Let's not forget the wide open 3 point shot for Ivanauskas - I thought that was the dagger.
Some interesting ironies - Caleb scored 19 points and we lost - I thought someone quoted a stat on a previous thread that our record was pretty good when he scored more than 8 points Colgate only played 8 players - we actually played 9 - but Hargis only played 5 minutes
Some interesting body language by BC after the game - he was "pacing" around before going to Dick Lutsk and doing the post-game interview. I got the sense he was trying to gather his emotions before going on the air - probably afraid what he might say. You could tell he was not happy with the call against JF for an offensive foul and did a stare down at the ref afterwards. At the next break the refs had a little huddle - I wondered if the refs were discussing the call.
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Post by hc87 on Feb 14, 2019 10:32:23 GMT -5
It was a tough call but not necessarily a bad call imo...JF lowered his shoulder and went into the defendah.
I totally understand BC's frustration though...the call did go a long way in determining the outcome of last night's tilt.
He (BC) is obviously going through a lot right now....yet another difficult situation for the school.
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Post by lou on Feb 14, 2019 10:35:42 GMT -5
Batt is also pre-season flopper-of-the-year candidate, and living up to expectations. So how can the refs be fooled so often?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 14, 2019 10:38:00 GMT -5
Colgate only played 8 players - we actually played 9 - but Hargis only played 5 minutes Three players for us combined for 29 minutes, and this was their combined stat line: 1-1 2PT FG, 0-4 3PT FG, two rebounds, one assist, two turnovers, one steal.
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Post by bigfan on Feb 14, 2019 10:39:17 GMT -5
Offense was terrible the last five minutes, that's on the coaching staff.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 14, 2019 10:39:27 GMT -5
It was a tough call but not necessarily a bad call imo...JF lowered his shoulder and went into the defendah. It was a terrible possession that consisted of Benzan dribbling through Colgate defenders for a good portion of it. Floyd, as I recall, caught the ball with about 3-4 seconds on the shot clock, and had no choice but to immediately make a move towards the basket. Had we gotten him the ball in a better position with more time to operate, this could have been avoided.
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Post by classof83 on Feb 14, 2019 10:43:15 GMT -5
I do think Tom's comments about the football team are correct.
I thought it was great that they were there, but I got the sense we weren't going to get the benefit of the doubt from the refs on any calls because of some of the comments.
We could use them for the Bucknell game, but I am guessing they will still be sleeping at noon on Saturday
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 14, 2019 10:52:04 GMT -5
It was a tough call but not necessarily a bad call imo...JF lowered his shoulder and went into the defendah. It was a terrible possession that consisted of Benzan dribbling through Colgate defenders for a good portion of it. Floyd, as I recall, caught the ball with about 3-4 seconds on the shot clock, and had no choice but to immediately make a move towards the basket. Had we gotten him the ball in a better position with more time to operate, this could have been avoided. Exactly. Floyd caught the ball with between 3-4 seconds on the clock and Batt directly on his back in perfect defending position. Batt knew the clock and knew that Floyd would have to rush into his typical post move over his right shoulder, so he lined himself up on that shoulder and Floyd extended his forearm/elbow to go right over Batt and give the official a relatively easy call to make.
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Post by classof83 on Feb 14, 2019 11:05:37 GMT -5
The call was right in front of me (and in front of the HC bench) and I thought it was a bad call. It looked to me that Batt was moving at the time JF made his move - not in a set position. You see players always extend their elbow to clear space all the time and the call is never made. I got the sense the ref thought he hooked him which would be a foul. As I recall the ball was in both hands which is how players avoid the hook call.
Like I wrote, it looked to me the refs discussed the call on the next break - so I don't think it was a clear cut call.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 14, 2019 11:07:27 GMT -5
Offense was terrible the last five minutes, that's on the coaching staff. Defense was just as bad (if not worse) down the stretch. Just re-watched the final three scoring possessions for Colgate: 1) Ferguson 2-2 FTs -- Ferguson caught the ball on perimeter with Butler guarding him and Butler gave some kind of hop/jump at him that allowed Ferguson to have a clear lane to the rim, drawing the foul from Floyd 2) Ivanauskus 3 -- Butler allowed Colgate's wing to once again drive directly by him on the 3-point line, this time into the middle of the floor causing the defense to collapse. This left Ivanauskus wide open for a 3 that he had time to set up for, ice his ailing ankle, measure the wind, have a glass of water, and drill the shot. 3) Ivanauskus layup -- Butler was left guarding Ivan. down on the left block and for some reason went around his back (towards the left endline/sideline corner), allowing Ivan. to be between him and the basket with a clear passing lane from the strong side wing. Ivan. was able to then catch the ball in perfect position in the paint, and despite Floyd's attempts to come over and alter the shot, after a couple shot fakes, Ivan made a relatively easy layup just before a 3-second violation Not going to win many close games when the defense gives up this type of easy offense in the final two minutes.
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Post by Ignutz on Feb 14, 2019 11:33:16 GMT -5
Since when does a player who's not in jeopardy of being run over get a stoppage like that? That sucks. Thought same thing I checked this morning with a HS ref who is here in the office. He made it quite clear that unless there's a possibility of additional injury to the downed player or it's readily apparent that the downed player is in extreme distress (like a cardiac issue), there should be no whistle until a change of possession or a stoppage of play. My recollection is that after the sides were evened up, we failed to score. I didn't see any significant reaction from BC on the NESN coverage. Anyone who was in attendance notice anything?
Two-bit officials make two-bit calls.
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Post by Ray on Feb 14, 2019 11:37:56 GMT -5
The call was right in front of me (and in front of the HC bench) and I thought it was a bad call. It looked to me that Batt was moving at the time JF made his move - not in a set position. You see players always extend their elbow to clear space all the time and the call is never made. I got the sense the ref thought he hooked him which would be a foul. As I recall the ball was in both hands which is how players avoid the hook call. Like I wrote, it looked to me the refs discussed the call on the next break - so I don't think it was a clear cut call. I didn't think they called him for lowering the shoulder. Looking at it from video (rather than in person), I thought JF basically hooked his off (non-dribble) arm around the defender in an attempt to get past him. I didn't think it was a bad call. And yes, good D/awareness by Gate. Knowing where the clock was, that JF had no time to fake, and he was going to his primary move, and was ready for it.
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Post by Tom on Feb 14, 2019 11:58:03 GMT -5
I checked this morning with a HS ref who is here in the office. He made it quite clear that unless there's a possibility of additional injury to the downed player or it's readily apparent that the downed player is in extreme distress (like a cardiac issue), there should be no whistle until a change of possession or a stoppage of play. My recollection is that after the sides were evened up, we failed to score. I didn't see any significant reaction from BC on the NESN coverage. Anyone who was in attendance notice anything?
Two-bit officials make two-bit calls.
There was another funny stoppage. HC was bringing the ball up and was close to mid court when the ref decided that a Colgate player had not checked into the game properly and whistled the play dead and Colgate made a substitution.
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Post by possum on Feb 14, 2019 12:50:30 GMT -5
Stoppage of play for the injury was surprising, only call I questioned was the foul on Floyd when Ferguson lost his balance and fell into him. Carmody says he kept waiting for someone to make a play that's one of our problems we don't have a player that can beat his man and penetrate to either score or create for others. In the second half for a 4-5 minute stretch we had a lineup that included Zignorski, Benzan and Floyd none of whom have to be guarded within 15 feet of the hoop. Don't mind sprinkling in subs in first half but absent foul trouble we should be going with top 6 players in 2nd half. Don't understand rationale for starting Zignorski.
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Post by Tom on Feb 14, 2019 13:01:38 GMT -5
In the second half for a 4-5 minute stretch we had a lineup that included Zignorski, Benzan and Floyd none of whom have to be guarded within 15 feet of the hoop. Not sure where you're going with this. Floyd obviously needs to be guarded within 15 feet. Assuming you're were going with beyond 15 feet, Zignorski is a decent (not great) 3 point shooter at 36 percent last year. Although since getting healthy this year he basically doesn't shoot (2-5 beyond the arc going into last night). No Scooter Tropf but not someone you don't guard out there
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Post by possum on Feb 14, 2019 13:10:11 GMT -5
Tom thanks for the correction should have been outside 15 feet and if Ziggy as you say doesn't shoot than you don't have to worry about him.
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Post by DiMarz on Feb 14, 2019 15:14:08 GMT -5
A few thoughts about he game....
I thought the refs were intimidated by the football team, especially the tall thin bald guy...He didn't make any calls in favor of HC...
The foul on JF late when the player fell into him was a big play in the game. The refs bailed out Colgate with a few calls that were very marginal..
Missing CN....He give the team an option to score that they are lacking right now..(What is the teams record since he went down?)
The lack of a take charge guy to make a play in crunch time is evident..I thought JG was going to be that guy, but he hasn't stepped up..PB is the only guy I see who has the ability and heart to do something...He has shown that in the last few sesaons, I wish he'd have the ball at the end of games...
I'd love to see HC go M2M late in a game to take away the oppositions 3 point shot..The match up gets beat with good ball movement..Too many players don't have good footwork off the ball...The can't see the ball and the man they are defending and react late to many passes..Eric Green was so good at this, he was constantly moving his head looking around, our players watch the ball too much.
This team is just a step or so away from having a very good season..They are not as bad as their record shows...
HANG IN THERE 'SADER NATION....
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Post by sader81 on Feb 14, 2019 15:24:39 GMT -5
A few thoughts about he game.... I thought the refs were intimidated by the football team, especially the tall thin bald guy...He didn't make any calls in favor of HC... The foul on JF late when the player fell into him was a big play in the game. The refs bailed out Colgate with a few calls that were very marginal.. . . . . This team is just a step or so away from having a very good season..They are not as bad as their record shows... HANG IN THERE 'SADER NATION.... I loved to see the football team there cheering the team on; but I cringed very early on when they got on the refs for no apparent reason - a lot more fouls called on HC in the first half, and it at one point was 9-2 in the second half. I've officiated for decades, and I've seen it happen - they stuck to it to HC in response! Floyd got the bad end of a couple calls; and probably the worst was a Colgate steal near half court (on PB or CG, not sure) that turned into a fast break easy hoop during a Colgate 2nd half run. The steal was an absolute mugging!
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 14, 2019 15:49:27 GMT -5
Free throw shooting is on the player. Not getting to the line is on the system. That line is getting old. Not hitting the free throws when we do get to the line IS on the players. No one else can shot FTs for them.
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