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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 19, 2019 10:55:28 GMT -5
Butler's leg was bleeding.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Feb 19, 2019 10:56:41 GMT -5
AB had a cut on his leg. CBSSN had a brief view.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 19, 2019 11:02:04 GMT -5
Thanks. Didn’t appear he sought any treatment on the bench so I guess Carmody told him he was done. We were down 12 with 1:41 left when he came out. Butler is one guy who can get hot and drain a couple of NBA threes quickly when we’re desperate so I probably would have tried to get him back in. It took us forever to get a shot off on those last few possessions down 10.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 19, 2019 11:02:24 GMT -5
There was 1:49 left when Butler went to the bench, joined by Green and Grandison, with HC down 12. Highly improbable, but not impossible, to come back from that. No attempt to stop the bleeding and get him back in - instead, chose to finish with LeSann and Hargis on the floor.
HC92 posting the same puzzlement simultaneously above. Looked to me like Carmody waving the white flag.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 19, 2019 11:03:08 GMT -5
AB had a cut on his leg. CBSSN had a brief view. The trainer did not even come to clean off the blood. That did seem strange. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 19, 2019 11:10:19 GMT -5
Bring Back's weird obsession with Austin Butler continues. You do know that Butler has been significantly better than Grandison and Green during the 15 PL games, right? You can play around with those FGA numbers as much as you want, but the fact remains that Butler has been better in just about every department compared to his classmates. Trying to somehow pin last night's loss on Butler because he was 7-12 FG for 17 points, while Grandison and Green combined for 5-17 FG for 14 points is really something else. The ORtg for these three in PL games -- Butler: 108.0 Grandison: 97.0 Green: 95.6 Here is the effective FG% -- Butler: 54.65% Grandison: 49.7% Green: 49.3% Maybe there are other reasons we are losing games other than Butler shooting, but you're just wrong to try and spin this on him. It's really not all that difficult to understand the point. It's not about ORatings or shooting percentages -- it's about having the ball in the hands of guys who make the players around them better and who put the greatest stress on the defense. If defenses are able to easily take away Green & Grandison, and we are left with Butler as the primary scoring option from the perimeter, we are not a good team. |
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Post by hc6774 on Feb 19, 2019 11:11:39 GMT -5
In the second half, the TV color announcer made it a point to say HC needs to have Floyd touch the ball every time down the court. The entire planet seems to want that to be the focal point except the field marshal in charge of the whole thing... Mo the color guy also said HC's 131 is effective because the other teams don't practice against it |
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Post by HC92 on Feb 19, 2019 11:12:08 GMT -5
There was 1:49 left when Butler went to the bench, joined by Green and Grandison, with HC down 12. Highly improbable, but not impossible, to come back from that. No attempt to stop the bleeding and get him back in - instead, chose to finish with LeSann and Hargis on the floor.
HC92 posting the same puzzlement simultaneously above. Looked to me like Carmody waving the white flag.
According to the BU play-by-play, Green exited for good with 7:07 left, Grandison with 5:47 left and Butler with 1:41 left. If that’s correct, seems like more of a disciplinary thing than a strategy thing. If that’s true, I would defer to Carmody’s judgment. If you let people continue to make the same mistakes without meaningful consequence, they’ll just keep making them. Maybe we lose last night’s battle but win the war if Green and Grandison show up at Lehigh playing the way they played in OOC. |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 19, 2019 11:21:09 GMT -5
Bring Back's weird obsession with Austin Butler continues. You do know that Butler has been significantly better than Grandison and Green during the 15 PL games, right? You can play around with those FGA numbers as much as you want, but the fact remains that Butler has been better in just about every department compared to his classmates. Trying to somehow pin last night's loss on Butler because he was 7-12 FG for 17 points, while Grandison and Green combined for 5-17 FG for 14 points is really something else. The ORtg for these three in PL games -- Butler: 108.0 Grandison: 97.0 Green: 95.6 Here is the effective FG% -- Butler: 54.65% Grandison: 49.7% Green: 49.3% Maybe there are other reasons we are losing games other than Butler shooting, but you're just wrong to try and spin this on him. it's about having the ball in the hands of guys who make the players around them better and who put the greatest stress on the defense. Maybe this is where we differ then. While I don't think Butler is capable of carrying the team or being our go-to scoring option, I also don't believe Green and Grandison have done anything during conference play that makes others around them better or posing a serious threat to the opposition. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 19, 2019 11:24:31 GMT -5
Two telling defensive lapses from the second half "highlights," for your viewing dismay . . . 1. About 20 seconds in . . . watch Grandison "close out" Scanlon. 2. About 30 seconds in . . . Bu player kicks out to Harper at the arc. With Green racing towards him, Harper quickly fires to Pascoe in the corner. Floyd flies past Pascoe who drains the three, while Green flies into Harper to pick up the foul. BU gets the three and the ball. Almost impossibly bad. Continuing on to the next possession, if you pause at the 48/49 second mark, you can see the following: 1-A) BU ball handler about 35-40 feet from the basket (nowhere near a scoring position), but with THREE HC defenders guarding him 1-B) All the ball side of the floor, there are two BU players (ball handler +1) and four HC defenders ... a 3-on-1 advantage on the other side of the floor after a ball reversal 2-A) As the BU player passes to the opposite wing, Faw is left guarding three offensive players (ball on wing, man on ball-side baseline/short corner, man at ball-side elbow) 2-B) Faw closes out on pass receiver on the wing, and now the man in the ball-side corner is wide open 2-C) On the catch in the corner (50 second mark), Buter is still under the hoop and responsible for covering the guy in the corner at the 3-point line 3-A) Guy in the corner takes and makes the shot 3-B) If he did not take the shot he could have also had Mahoney sealing back on Floyd for a pass to the ball-side block for a layup or drop off to #30 from the weak side corner for a dunk if Grandison helped over on Mahoney. It all started with three guys inexplicably guarding a ball handler 35+ feet from the basket, and from there the entire defense was trying to play catch up to the ball & offense. |
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Post by trimster on Feb 19, 2019 11:39:52 GMT -5
Could man to man defense produce much worse results? Why not give it a try.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 19, 2019 11:48:09 GMT -5
Bring Back's weird obsession with Austin Butler continues. You do know that Butler has been significantly better than Grandison and Green during the 15 PL games, right? You can play around with those FGA numbers as much as you want, but the fact remains that Butler has been better in just about every department compared to his classmates. Trying to somehow pin last night's loss on Butler because he was 7-12 FG for 17 points, while Grandison and Green combined for 5-17 FG for 14 points is really something else. The ORtg for these three in PL games -- Butler: 108.0 Grandison: 97.0 Green: 95.6 Here is the effective FG% -- Butler: 54.65% Grandison: 49.7% Green: 49.3% Maybe there are other reasons we are losing games other than Butler shooting, but you're just wrong to try and spin this on him. It's really not all that difficult to understand the point. It's not about ORatings or shooting percentages -- it's about having the ball in the hands of guys who make the players around them better and who put the greatest stress on the defense. If defenses are able to easily take away Green & Grandison, and we are left with Butler as the primary scoring option from the perimeter, we are not a good team. How do Green and Grandison "put greater stress" on the defenses than Butler does? How do Green and Grandison "make players around them better" while Butler does not? How do defenses "take away Green and Grandison"? Butler is shooting .431 on threes in PL games, how is that not a good "scoring option"? You're in a difficult position, disliking Butler but having the facts arrayed against you. Why not just admit you have been wrong in suggesting (1) he is not a good player or (2) the gratuitous "Butler should be a spark coming off the bench"? |
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Post by Ignutz on Feb 19, 2019 12:03:05 GMT -5
It's really not all that difficult to understand the point. It's not about ORatings or shooting percentages -- it's about having the ball in the hands of guys who make the players around them better and who put the greatest stress on the defense. If defenses are able to easily take away Green & Grandison, and we are left with Butler as the primary scoring option from the perimeter, we are not a good team. How do Green and Grandison "put greater stress" on the defenses than Butler does? How do Green and Grandison "make players around them better" while Butler does not? How do defenses "take away Green and Grandison"? Butler is shooting .431 on threes in PL games, how is that not a good "scoring option"? You're in a difficult position, disliking Butler but having the facts arrayed against you. Why not just admit you have been wrong in suggesting (1) he is not a good player or (2) the gratuitous "Butler should be a spark coming off the bench"? AB didn't have his best game last night, but as I noted a couple weeks ago, I'll take five ABs against a team of five of any other player on our team (including JF, whom I greatly respect), and I like my chances to win, win, win and win again. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 19, 2019 12:18:49 GMT -5
It's really not all that difficult to understand the point. It's not about ORatings or shooting percentages -- it's about having the ball in the hands of guys who make the players around them better and who put the greatest stress on the defense. If defenses are able to easily take away Green & Grandison, and we are left with Butler as the primary scoring option from the perimeter, we are not a good team. How do Green and Grandison "put greater stress" on the defenses than Butler does? How do Green and Grandison "make players around them better" while Butler does not? How do defenses "take away Green and Grandison"? Butler is shooting .431 on threes in PL games, how is that not a good "scoring option"? You're in a difficult position, disliking Butler but having the facts arrayed against you. Why not just admit you have been wrong in suggesting (1) he is not a good player or (2) the gratuitous "Butler should be a spark coming off the bench"? The fact is that we are 1-6 in PL games when Butler attempts more shots than Grandison & Green. Regarding your questions about making their teammates better, this year, Butler has an Assist Rate of 10.3, versus 17.9 for Green and 18.5 for Grandison. There are 24 players who have a KenPom Minute% of greater than 40% during Carmody's four seasons. Butler's 10.6 Assist Rate last year and 10.3 Assist Rate this year rank 22nd and 23rd for those 24 players, trailed only by Faw's 6.3 this year. Your argument also continues to totally ignore defense, where Butler is a liability against guards with any type of athleticism. I already said that I would happily admit I was wrong when/if we perform well against the top teams in the league down the stretch of this season and Butler plays a key role in those games.* Until that happens, I am going to continue to believe what my eyes tell me from watching the games and reviewing the stats to test my hypotheses. (*So far, we beat Bucknell and Butler was our 4th option in that game.) |
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Post by joe on Feb 19, 2019 12:30:48 GMT -5
In the second half, the TV color announcer made it a point to say HC needs to have Floyd touch the ball every time down the court. The entire planet seems to want that to be the focal point except the field marshal in charge of the whole thing... Mo the color guy also said HC's 131 is effective because the other teams don't practice against it Except all PL teams year in and year out when they play HC I guess. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 19, 2019 12:36:10 GMT -5
Good time to update the o-ratings and d-ratings for PL conference games from sports-reference
Player= O-Rating & D-Rating
JF= 118.9 & 106.2
AB= 110.0 & 107.6
MF= 93.9 & 99.3
PB= 102.7 & 109.7
JG= 97.9 & 109.3
CG= 96.5 & 113.2
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Post by timholycross on Feb 19, 2019 12:51:36 GMT -5
Thanks, WG. Here’s where the game was lost last night. Mahoney leaves the game with two fouls with 9:13 left in the first half and we’re down 23-18. We cut the lead to 30-29 when Jehyve gets an and-1 basket with 3:49 left. BU then rolls the dice and brings Mahoney back with two fouls. The rest of our offensive possessions in the first half ended as follows: Grandy missed 3. Butler missed layup. Grandy missed 3. Butler missed 3. Butler missed 3. Down 37-29 at the half. Four out of five possessions we settled for threes and Jehyve barely touched the ball the rest of the half and got no shots. ...and Butler's missed layup was a prayer that he didn't need to throw up and a pro would have had a tough time making. |
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Post by timholycross on Feb 19, 2019 12:56:36 GMT -5
Two telling defensive lapses from the second half "highlights," for your viewing dismay . . . 1. About 20 seconds in . . . watch Grandison "close out" Scanlon. 2. About 30 seconds in . . . Bu player kicks out to Harper at the arc. With Green racing towards him, Harper quickly fires to Pascoe in the corner. Floyd flies past Pascoe who drains the three, while Green flies into Harper to pick up the foul. BU gets the three and the ball. Almost impossibly bad. The other really bad sequence came early in the game. Faw committed a foul on a BU possession, kind of late in the shot clock. BU then hit a three. They pressed slightly and Green apparently pushed off during the inbounds pass. BU ball. They hit another 3. So a 6 point play after HC had come from 11-6 down to go up 12-11. HC never led again. |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 19, 2019 13:00:41 GMT -5
Good time to update the o-ratings and d-ratings for PL conference games from sports-reference Player= O-Rating & D-Rating JF= 118.9 & 106.2 AB= 110.0 & 107.6 MF= 93.9 & 99.3 PB= 102.7 & 109.7 JG= 97.9 & 109.3 CG= 96.5 & 113.2 Any stat that says Jehyve Floyd is the 5th best defender on the team should be thrown in the garbage and lit on fire. |
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Post by hc87 on Feb 19, 2019 13:21:24 GMT -5
A lot of these "stats" are ovah complicating in essence a very simple game .....I'm not a full-on Luddite, but it's getting ridiculous imo.
Stats be damned: we are a very poor defensive team that doesn't rebound a lick....hence, last place in the PL
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Post by HC16 on Feb 19, 2019 13:54:18 GMT -5
Good time to update the o-ratings and d-ratings for PL conference games from sports-reference Player= O-Rating & D-Rating JF= 118.9 & 106.2 AB= 110.0 & 107.6 MF= 93.9 & 99.3 PB= 102.7 & 109.7 JG= 97.9 & 109.3 CG= 96.5 & 113.2 Any stat that says Jehyve Floyd is the 5th best defender on the team should be thrown in the garbage and lit on fire. Lower D-Ratings are better. They're saying he's second best. |
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Post by HC92 on Feb 19, 2019 13:59:31 GMT -5
Any stat that says Jehyve Floyd is the 5th best defender on the team should be thrown in the garbage and lit on fire. Lower D-Ratings are better. They're saying he's second best. Better. But still wrong. |
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 19, 2019 14:09:51 GMT -5
Capable of getting blown out in the p.i.g., capable of going all the way. This team is like the tease every TV or radio talk show or news broadcast throws out right before the commercial to get you to stay tuned. So, I'm staying tuned.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 19, 2019 14:12:12 GMT -5
Any stat that says Jehyve Floyd is the 5th best defender on the team should be thrown in the garbage and lit on fire. Lower D-Ratings are better. They're saying he's second best. Thanks for the clarification. So now Faw is our best defender -- that might even be more egregious. |
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 19, 2019 14:12:37 GMT -5
Capable of getting blown out in the p.i.g., capable of going all the way. We haven't won back to back PL games all season, so going all the way doesn't seem likely. Of course, it didn't seem likely in 2016, either. |
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