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Post by crosspride on Feb 19, 2019 14:22:20 GMT -5
Capable of getting blown out in the p.i.g., capable of going all the way. We haven't won back to back PL games all season, so going all the way doesn't seem likely. Of course, it didn't seem likely in 2016, either. Not ideal that miraculously running the table in the PLT, starting with the PiG, is the only thing we can cling to as Holy Cross Basketball fans. Especially not ideal that we’re generally in this same position every year with CBC.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 19, 2019 14:25:46 GMT -5
We haven't won back to back PL games all season, so going all the way doesn't seem likely. Of course, it didn't seem likely in 2016, either. Not ideal that miraculously running the table in the PLT, starting with the PiG, is the only thing we can cling to as Holy Cross Basketball fans. Especially not ideal that we’re generally in this same position every year with CBC. It is pretty amazing that we will very likely have not played one PLT game at home in Carmody's first four seasons.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 19, 2019 14:29:45 GMT -5
I saw Butler go out when I was watching the game on TV. Didn't look like he was being taken out because of the blood, although the cameras did focus on it, from what I could tell. I thought he was being subbed out after being called for a foul. He then stopped in front of the ref to try and make his case, somewhat composed, somewhat gesturing what he did, and the ref just pointed for him to leave the floor. I guess it was because the ref wasn't going to speak with a player who was A) getting beat rather handily, B) was subbed out, and C) wasn't in the NBA.
To BBC's post earlier about the three HC defenders covering one BU player 35 feet from the basket, that's all that 1-3-1 can aspire to do: it creates 2 and three man traps in the high and low corners. If you extend it too far, or can't defend the swing pass with the middle man, you will get torched with open looks. I didn't see a single successful trap. Plenty of Floyd blocks, a couple picked pockets from a clogged paint, but no forced timeouts, or bad heaves on the part of BU due to a trap.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 19, 2019 14:33:17 GMT -5
The 1-3-1 is a great wrinkle defense to throw in sporadically during the course of a game to give the opposition a look that they may not be prepared for. Sometimes, you'll see a defense go to this look coming out of a timeout.
To play the 1-3-1 for virtually every possession during the course of an entire conference season is foolish.
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Post by Tom on Feb 19, 2019 15:29:32 GMT -5
Capable of getting blown out in the p.i.g., capable of going all the way. We haven't won back to back PL games all season, so going all the way doesn't seem likely. Of course, it didn't seem likely in 2016, either. Niego is perfectly healthy and is being held out until the tournament when he will come in like Eric Green with all kinds of new wrinkles which no one has video of. On to Dayton
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Post by thecrossisback on Feb 19, 2019 18:25:49 GMT -5
Just a brutal loss, on the fact we gave some many open looks for three. Man to man defense against a team like that and let them beat you. Floyd needs to touch the ball on every possession especially in the 2nd half. Just tough and even when they were coming back all be it BU's mistakes. Not aggression to fly up the court and attack. Interesting seeing LeSann and Hargis in the game late getting minutes. Hargis seems to have potential with the shot and his length. I know it was two days later, from the Bucknell win. Hope we didn't feel to over confident in the BU game. Carmody sorry but just so stubborn with the 1-3-1 that for the college level since that NOW everybody has seen it is so breakable and you can have all the wide open threes you want in the corner. CBS SPORTS NETWORK CURSE 0-3 this year Tough because that is our fourth loss at home and to loose to BU again at home. Three loses in a row to BU at home. I still have hope for an amazing run, but the defense has to change.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 19, 2019 20:07:30 GMT -5
By process of elimination, the unexpected would be wonderful.
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Post by crosspride on Feb 19, 2019 22:15:20 GMT -5
Through 69 PL regular season games, Carmody is 27-42. In Milan Brown’s first 69 games, he was 35-34. Our average Pomeroy rank through Milan’s first four seasons was 211.5. For Carmody to date, it’s 256.25. Milan Brown was definitely a better coach at HC. One thing that’s absolutely incredible about this stat: Milan Brown had to deal with Muscala and McCollum for most of his tenure at HC. Nearly 25% of our games meant dealing with NBA talents on the other team. And he was able to past a winning record. Are there any NBA guys currently in the PL that CBC has to deal with? I’d say no and there’s no one really close. Yet we’ve lost 60% of the time. This stat coupled with the signing of guys like Kostecka and Proctor, there’s little no to doubt that HC would be in a much better position if Milan Brown was still the coach. Of course, none of this matters as we move back to reality and make our way to a road PiG here in 2019.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Feb 20, 2019 7:32:47 GMT -5
Just a brutal loss, on the fact we gave some many open looks for three. Man to man defense against a team like that and let them beat you. Floyd needs to touch the ball on every possession especially in the 2nd half. Just tough and even when they were coming back all be it BU's mistakes. Not aggression to fly up the court and attack. Interesting seeing LeSann and Hargis in the game late getting minutes. Hargis seems to have potential with the shot and his length. I know it was two days later, from the Bucknell win. Hope we didn't feel to over confident in the BU game. Carmody sorry but just so stubborn with the 1-3-1 that for the college level since that NOW everybody has seen it is so breakable and you can have all the wide open threes you want in the corner. CBS SPORTS NETWORK CURSE 0-3 this year Tough because that is our fourth loss at home and to loose to BU again at home. Three loses in a row to BU at home. I still have hope for an amazing run, but the defense has to change. I watched a very entertaining game last night between WPI and Babson (NEWMAC quarterfinal). Both teams played man the entire game. There were still many threes but they had to work hard to get open. Almost all the WPI starters played 30 minutes or more. Either of these teams, IMHO, would give HC a run for their money. WPI won and will next face nationally ranked MIT.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 20, 2019 11:12:02 GMT -5
Evidence to support that contention is Williams' victory over HC at the Hart. I remember John Hurley soaring over the Williams front court like he had a jet pack on but continually missing bunnies. Williams was the defending or recent national champions as I recall and their sets, passing and defense was well oiled and tight. The RW coaching staffs prepared good defenses for each team they faced but perhaps they didn't do that for a D-3 team. That HC team was more successful than this HC team and you could see they should win a seven game series against Williams, but they didn't win the one game played.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 20, 2019 11:32:28 GMT -5
Looks like you guys are having some fun with this pipe dreaming about WPI or Babson beating our HC team. The Williams game was the "perfect storm" of the best D-3 team in the country catching HC on a very off night when I'm sure all the shots were falling for Williams and none for the Crusaders. As longsuffering note--Hurley kept missing bunnies. Holy Cross would destroy WPI or Babson. Jehyve Floyd would be unstoppable, for one thing, and HC would have a height and quickness advantage at every position.
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Post by Tom on Feb 20, 2019 12:12:35 GMT -5
Through 69 PL regular season games, Carmody is 27-42. In Milan Brown’s first 69 games, he was 35-34. Our average Pomeroy rank through Milan’s first four seasons was 211.5. For Carmody to date, it’s 256.25. Milan Brown was definitely a better coach at HC. One thing that’s absolutely incredible about this stat: Milan Brown had to deal with Muscala and McCollum for most of his tenure at HC. Nearly 25% of our games meant dealing with NBA talents on the other team. And he was able to past a winning record. Are there any NBA guys currently in the PL that CBC has to deal with? I’d say no and there’s no one really close. Yet we’ve lost 60% of the time. Since Malcolm Miller is currently on the Raptors roster, didn't HC have the advantage of NBA talent on our roster while for 75% of our games there wasn't NBA talent on the other side?
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Feb 20, 2019 13:12:01 GMT -5
Looks like you guys are having some fun with this pipe dreaming about WPI or Babson beating our HC team. The Williams game was the "perfect storm" of the best D-3 team in the country catching HC on a very off night when I'm sure all the shots were falling for Williams and none for the Crusaders. As longsuffering note--Hurley kept missing bunnies. Holy Cross would destroy WPI or Babson. Jehyve Floyd would be unstoppable, for one thing, and HC would have a height and quickness advantage at every position. Main focus of my post was the man to man defense employed. Never said either D3 team would defeat HC, just that it might not be a rout. Floyd theoretically would be unstoppable but.... HC would not have a height and quickness advantage at every position: this is not an especially tall HC team. The better D3 teams are a lot bigger than they used to be.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 20, 2019 13:29:37 GMT -5
I watched a very entertaining game last night between WPI and Babson (NEWMAC quarterfinal). Both teams played man the entire game. There were still many threes but they had to work hard to get open. Almost all the WPI starters played 30 minutes or more. Either of these teams, IMHO, would give HC a run for their money. WPI won and will next face nationally ranked MIT. WPI lost a regular season game last week to MIT by a few points (84-81) in front of 1100 fans in Worcester. Should be a nice rematch. Looking at WPI's roster, it is very young (1 JR and 0 SRs)). MIT was down 1 to Harvard at the half this year (40-39) before losing 78-66. 12 pts. We were down by 11 at the half to Harvard this year and wound up losing 73-62. 11 pts. Remove Floyd from the lineup and an MIT game might be pretty darn close.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 20, 2019 13:54:08 GMT -5
1100 at a WPI game in Worcester? Colgate at Holy Cross a week ago only drew 912.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 20, 2019 14:04:37 GMT -5
How can WPI top us without the well staffed multi-media advertising campaign brought in by FADNP? I have never noticed an online or print ad for a WPI sports event in the T&G but I have seen plenty for HC...and they don't give those ads away. I don't even know if WPI has a shield.
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Post by Tom on Feb 20, 2019 14:34:04 GMT -5
Looks like you guys are having some fun with this pipe dreaming about WPI or Babson beating our HC team. The Williams game was the "perfect storm" of the best D-3 team in the country catching HC on a very off night when I'm sure all the shots were falling for Williams and none for the Crusaders. As longsuffering note--Hurley kept missing bunnies. Holy Cross would destroy WPI or Babson. Jehyve Floyd would be unstoppable, for one thing, and HC would have a height and quickness advantage at every position. HC would not have a height and quickness advantage at every position: this is not an especially tall HC team. The better D3 teams are a lot bigger than they used to be. Starting line-ups: HC WPI 6'8" 6'7" 6'6" 6'4" 6'5" 6'4" 6'2" 6'1" 5'10" 6'0" For most of the year, WPI started a 5'8" kid, but for some reason he came off the bench last game. The last WPI game I went to everyone on the team was a wide body. FWIW, in that game their NEWMAC opponent's tallest player was 6'5" A couple of years ago another NEWMAC school was starting a 6'7" 180ish former HC ballboy
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 22, 2019 6:17:11 GMT -5
Not that I wanted to revisit this game, but one Jehvye highlight just popped in my head this morning on my way to work: at some point in the first half, Tyler Scanlon started a hard drive to the hoop from the top of the key. About halfway in the paint, he suddenly stopped, maintained his dribble, then did a 180 and dribbled back to his starting point. I wasn't sure if he came upon a castle moat in front of the basket, or saw a skunk. I then realized who was waiting. A play that is not measured anywhere, or makes Sportscenter. But it was fun to watch it nevertheless.
A really nice career is winding down.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 22, 2019 7:56:33 GMT -5
mm67, perhaps everything you posted is 100% correct - giving you the benefit of the doubt - but I don't think most folks critical of the 1-3-1 are saying to never use it. Rather, they are suggesting mixing up the defenses a little more, including and especially a man-to-man which is hardly ever used it seems, to throw the opposing team off (think of a pitcher's change of pace throw) and to do something, anything to prevent the wide open 3s with TTPL* that is so ineffective. A Jehyve dunk is glorious to behold but not if the opposition hits a 3 pointer both before and after those dunks. *= copyright: "The Three Point Lunge"
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 22, 2019 12:46:58 GMT -5
I remember one high school coach who had his players play ONLY man-to-man (at Bergen Catholic H.S.). He said that college coaches liked to see that and felt it showed a play's ability to adapt to whatever defense they might have to use in college. He did from time to time (in a post-season tournament for example) throw in a zone for variety and it was often very effective. Might we see HC use some man-to-man in the PL tournament?
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 22, 2019 12:53:03 GMT -5
And I basically agree with you but:
1. Posters smarter than I have said the purpose of TTPL is not to block the shot; not because they are out of position; but because it is intended to "distract" the shooter. I find that reason/excuse/rationale flat out wrong because if it is to distract, it has been proven totally ineffective and instead puts our defender in an even worse position to attempt a rebound or to get back on defense as he often has to disentangle himself from his own or the opposing bench. I just think that moving with an opposing player you don't need to be any quicker/faster than when you find yourself out of position and running half the width of the court to run at the open 3 point shooter.
2. This 1-3-1 has proven time and again that it does not work against a team who knows we are going to play it and properly prepares for it. Our record, as we like to say here, speaks for itself.
3. We have virtually nothing to lose. How could changing defenses be any more disastrous than what is happening now?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 22, 2019 13:46:35 GMT -5
Coaching 101:
When you press another team and force a time out, you almost always will want to change out of that press or trap to another defense once play resumes. The other team spent their last 30-60 seconds preparing to defeat that defense with a play, so you don't want to present them with a known opportunity to execute that plan.
PL coaches have had much longer, perhaps weeks, to prepare to beat the HC 1-3-1. I'm not saying the defenses have to be a roulette wheel selection, game over game, or minute over minute. Hell, you can keep throwing the 1-3-1 out there as the main/base defense if it works. But when the same team, or especially the same player, is lighting up the zone with shots in the same exact spot on the floor, not changing for five straight baskets is questionable at best.
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