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Post by hcpride on Sept 8, 2019 14:03:54 GMT -5
UNH had 4 wins last year including one to HC. Their star QB (who obscured their general decline to a few fans) is gone and it looks like a big step down at that position. This year they lost to HC. Can't see them winning much at all in the CAA this year.
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Post by hc6774 on Sept 8, 2019 14:49:07 GMT -5
UNH stacked the box and dared Degenhardt to beat them. Couldn't do it. he wasn't the field when they got beat
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Post by HC16 on Sept 8, 2019 21:24:44 GMT -5
I didn’t read all the posts but agree with a lot of them. O needs to be way better. But I’ll say this. We all agreed that OL and RB were huge positives going into the season 35 carries for 62 yards. It’s not a popular opinion but why isn’t this on the players too. Poor execution in the run game. 35 carries for 62. Coaches and play calling need to get better. No doubt about it. But black and white - OL and RBs need to start stepping it up too. A lot. This. I think at least part of the frustration with play calling is due to a lack of execution in the decision to hand the ball off vs pull it in the RPO. It seems to me Degenhardt doesn't pull the ball as often as he should, hence the seemingly repeated draws and off-tackle runs. Several times I saw the UNH DE pinch in to the RB and Degenhardt didn't pull the ball and the play would go for a couple yard run. More QB boots with the threat to run or throw should help open some running lanes. That's still ultimately on the OC, but some of it could be inexperience and should improve as the season goes on. I did think Degenhardt looked much better compared to the Navy game. Also, having attended the game Saturday, reported attendance seemed low.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 9, 2019 9:15:53 GMT -5
21-34 for 253 with 0 interceptions in his second career start against a solid team.Yes, the offense could not score a TD, but to me that was more a product of a weak running game. 62 yards on 35 attempts. Not that much of a QB problem Compare to our passing stats in last year's game vs UNH 18-33 for 130 with 2 interceptions
Not a perfect scientific comparison, of course, but still…... If you remove the deep throw to Gilliam (an excellent throw/play) and the double-reverse thowback play (a very near trainwreck) -- which were two very clear outliers in play and playcalling -- Degenhardt would have been 19-32 for 159 yards. And those two big plays got the ball to the 8 and 9 yard line, but only resulted in a total of 6 points. This program will never turn the corner if there is not huge improvement in playcalling and QB play. Can't win consistently in college football these days if you're going to continue to roll out this type of offense.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2019 9:20:28 GMT -5
We know your point, but why take two plays away...unless you are creating private stats that serve only to defend your prior opinion? And, even taking away two big plays, HC did slightly better than last year. If we take away just one play for UNH, their one TD, the game is not even close. IMHO, it may be better just to use the stats that actually exist.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 9, 2019 9:21:22 GMT -5
Compare to our passing stats in last year's game vs UNH 18-33 for 130 with 2 interceptions
Not a perfect scientific comparison, of course, but still…... If you remove the deep throw to Gilliam (an excellent throw/play) and the double-reverse thowback play (a very near trainwreck) -- which were two very clear outliers in play and playcalling -- Degenhardt would have been 19-32 for 159 yardsThanks, prof. intro to the course, “How to manipulate statistics”. 101
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2019 9:24:35 GMT -5
PS: Calling a play that was a big gain a "very near train wreck" says a lot about your objectivity.
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 9, 2019 9:34:06 GMT -5
Compare to our passing stats in last year's game vs UNH 18-33 for 130 with 2 interceptions
Not a perfect scientific comparison, of course, but still…... If you remove the deep throw to Gilliam (an excellent throw/play) and the double-reverse thowback play (a very near trainwreck) -- which were two very clear outliers in play and playcalling -- Degenhardt would have been 19-32 for 159 yards. And those two big plays got the ball to the 8 and 9 yard line, but only resulted in a total of 6 points. This program will never turn the corner if there is not huge improvement in playcalling and QB play. Can't win consistently in college football these days if you're going to continue to roll out this type of offense. So you're saying the 2 interceptions in 2018 were replaced with the deep throw to Gilliam and double reverse pass in 2019. I'll take that tradeoff (2 fewer turnovers and 2 more big gainers) in every game this year vs. last. No one is saying the offense is great. But whether due to development or opponent they seemed to improve last year as the season wore on. I expect the same this year. And remember a near trainwreck is called a train ride. Hop aboard!
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Post by gks on Sept 9, 2019 9:34:55 GMT -5
Compare to our passing stats in last year's game vs UNH 18-33 for 130 with 2 interceptions
Not a perfect scientific comparison, of course, but still…... If you remove the deep throw to Gilliam (an excellent throw/play) and the double-reverse thowback play (a very near trainwreck) -- which were two very clear outliers in play and playcalling -- Degenhardt would have been 19-32 for 159 yards. And those two big plays got the ball to the 8 and 9 yard line, but only resulted in a total of 6 points. This program will never turn the corner if there is not huge improvement in playcalling and QB play. Can't win consistently in college football these days if you're going to continue to roll out this type of offense. Far from a train wreck. That was a well-designed trick play. GIVE CREDIT TO THE OC. HC Offense Eye Test.... They want to run the ball. Chesney has always been a run-first coach. UNH was forcing HC to throw the ball. Crusaders didn't want to and/or couldn't do it consistently. The staff has no confidence in Degenhardt to open up the offense. Offense was very similar to opener at Colgate last year. UNH played much better defense than Colgate did. Pass plays to me just seem very slow. QB needs to make faster decisions. Too much hesitation. But a win is a win. On to Yale.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 9, 2019 9:39:07 GMT -5
Few have been harder on the QB's in the Chesney era than me, but let's give credit where credit is due. CD has been exceptional with respect to turnovers and ball security vs two good teams. The knock I have have him is inconsistency with throws. Makes one great throw, then misses easy out, etc. He is better than I anticipated.
OC still stinks and has to go.
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Post by gks on Sept 9, 2019 9:46:03 GMT -5
Few have been harder on the QB's in the Chesney era than me, but let's give credit where credit is due. CD has been exceptional with respect to turnovers and ball security vs two good teams. The knock I have have him is inconsistency with throws. Makes one great throw, then misses easy out, etc. He is better than I anticipated. OC still stinks and has to go. He is a full scholarship player and a junior. Should be able to make the simple throw consistently.
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Post by hchoops on Sept 9, 2019 9:51:50 GMT -5
He may be a junior but his total game experience is TWO.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Sept 9, 2019 9:52:45 GMT -5
If you remove the deep throw to Gilliam (an excellent throw/play) and the double-reverse thowback play (a very near trainwreck) -- which were two very clear outliers in play and playcalling -- Degenhardt would have been 19-32 for 159 yards. And those two big plays got the ball to the 8 and 9 yard line, but only resulted in a total of 6 points. This program will never turn the corner if there is not huge improvement in playcalling and QB play. Can't win consistently in college football these days if you're going to continue to roll out this type of offense. So you're saying the 2 interceptions in 2018 were replaced with the deep throw to Gilliam and double reverse pass in 2019. I'll take that tradeoff (2 fewer turnovers and 2 more big gainers) in every game this year vs. last. No one is saying the offense is great. But whether due to development or opponent they seemed to improve last year as the season wore on. I expect the same this year. And remember a near trainwreck is called a train ride. Hop aboard! No, I'm saying that it's not sustainable to rely on very clear outliers to win games. Just like some claimed that "The Shot" vs Bucknell in 2016 (as previously referenced in this thread) was some time of program changer were proven very wrong when we won 41% of our PL games over the following 3 years, including a regression from 9th place in Year 1 to 10th place in Year 4.
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 9, 2019 10:09:37 GMT -5
Few have been harder on the QB's in the Chesney era than me, but let's give credit where credit is due. CD has been exceptional with respect to turnovers and ball security vs two good teams. The knock I have have him is inconsistency with throws. Makes one great throw, then misses easy out, etc. He is better than I anticipated. OC still stinks and has to go. He is a full scholarship player and a junior. Should be able to make the simple throw consistently. I agree. Coaches generally play the player that gives a team the best shot to win. Presumably, CD's ball security and lack of risk taking is the deciding factor over a frosh or transfer who may have more arm talent, but might be more risky or less familiar with the playbook. The former is a good reason to continue with CD, the latter may not be as relevant here as we run the same plays over and over.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Sept 9, 2019 11:05:07 GMT -5
So you're saying the 2 interceptions in 2018 were replaced with the deep throw to Gilliam and double reverse pass in 2019. I'll take that tradeoff (2 fewer turnovers and 2 more big gainers) in every game this year vs. last. No one is saying the offense is great. But whether due to development or opponent they seemed to improve last year as the season wore on. I expect the same this year. And remember a near trainwreck is called a train ride. Hop aboard! Just like some claimed that "The Shot" vs Bucknell in 2016 (as previously referenced in this thread) was some time of program changer I'm real curious to know who referred to that play as a program changer. I referred to it here in reference to the MESSAGE THREAD (how it turned the tenor of the thread 180 degrees). Does any poster think the play changed the program?
Sorry to hijack a thread about a really nice win.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2019 11:10:24 GMT -5
If you remove the deep throw to Gilliam (an excellent throw/play) and the double-reverse thowback play (a very near trainwreck) -- which were two very clear outliers in play and playcalling -- Degenhardt would have been 19-32 for 159 yards. And those two big plays got the ball to the 8 and 9 yard line, but only resulted in a total of 6 points. This program will never turn the corner if there is not huge improvement in playcalling and QB play. Can't win consistently in college football these days if you're going to continue to roll out this type of offense. Far from a train wreck. That was a well-designed trick play. GIVE CREDIT TO THE OC. HC Offense Eye Test.... They want to run the ball. Chesney has always been a run-first coach. UNH was forcing HC to throw the ball. Crusaders didn't want to and/or couldn't do it consistently. The staff has no confidence in Degenhardt to open up the offense. Offense was very similar to opener at Colgate last year. UNH played much better defense than Colgate did. Pass plays to me just seem very slow. QB needs to make faster decisions. Too much hesitation. But a win is a win. On to Yale. If Chesney is a "run first" coach, he has absolutely no idea what he is doing. He creates "zero" adjustment with the defense and is ALWAYS outnumbered at the point of attack. The offense has been terrible for 14 games straight, yet we somehow believe it's going to change "this week". This isn't CD's fault, he has done great as a first year QB. The staff has provided zero tools in helping him get comfortable.
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Post by gks on Sept 9, 2019 11:30:12 GMT -5
Far from a train wreck. That was a well-designed trick play. GIVE CREDIT TO THE OC. HC Offense Eye Test.... They want to run the ball. Chesney has always been a run-first coach. UNH was forcing HC to throw the ball. Crusaders didn't want to and/or couldn't do it consistently. The staff has no confidence in Degenhardt to open up the offense. Offense was very similar to opener at Colgate last year. UNH played much better defense than Colgate did. Pass plays to me just seem very slow. QB needs to make faster decisions. Too much hesitation. But a win is a win. On to Yale. If Chesney is a "run first" coach, he has absolutely no idea what he is doing. He creates "zero" adjustment with the defense and is ALWAYS outnumbered at the point of attack. The offense has been terrible for 14 games straight, yet we somehow believe it's going to change "this week". This isn't CD's fault, he has done great as a first year QB. The staff has provided zero tools in helping him get comfortable. If you don't think the QB position is a big problem on this team right now then I guess we'll just agree to disagree. There is not much to work with there....
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 9, 2019 11:32:56 GMT -5
CD has not played that badly for a rookie QB...
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cross99
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
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Post by cross99 on Sept 9, 2019 11:46:22 GMT -5
A win is a win. Period. Let's also remember that UNH was favored to win this game by more than a touchdown. Yes, offense is looking rough at times, but that is to be expected in the beginning of the year. Our defense looks lights out right now -- so let's take the good with the bad. Onto Jail -- I mean Yale.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 9, 2019 13:56:01 GMT -5
It's an interesting way of looking at things: taking out two big plays from our QB Connor Degenhardt to get a better read on what his performance level is, you know, getting rid of the outliers, taking out the lucky plays.
I took a look at Jimmy Brown, whom I (as it turns out, mistakenly) thought to be the greatest football player in history. He played 118 NFL games and rushed 2,350 times for 12,312 yards, gaining a whopping 5.2 yards per carry. Then I said--let's take out his two biggest plays every game. Even though he had dozens of runs of 30,40,50 yards or more, I figured we could use two 15 yard runs as his best carries in his typical 20 carries for 104 yards game. Yes, let's get rid of those outliers and see how good Jimmy Brown really was. Well, when you take out those two outliers per game Jimmy Brown ends up with 2,123 carries for 8,772 yards, an average of 4.1 yards per carry--pretty ordinary. I had always thought him to be the greatest player in history, but now must conclude that he was just average. Who knew?
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Post by Tom on Sept 9, 2019 14:17:52 GMT -5
If you eliminate the Dirty Dozen, all of his movies were pretty ordinary too
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2019 14:20:20 GMT -5
OK, but I don't remember him using grenades against the Giants as he did in the Dirty Dozen...even if it looked as though he did at times.
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Post by CHC8485 on Sept 9, 2019 18:02:23 GMT -5
If you eliminate the Dirty Dozen, all of his movies were pretty ordinary too When it comes to The Dirty Dozen there are only two words needed ... George Kennedy!
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 9, 2019 18:32:56 GMT -5
How about four...the underappreciated George Kennedy!
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Post by inhocsigno on Sept 9, 2019 21:15:12 GMT -5
How about four...the underappreciated George Kennedy! Who used to have the George Kennedy avatar picture on the old site. SoCal was too young for Kennedy but I am associating his name with it. He is not on here anymore to confirm.
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