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Post by HCFC45 on Sept 22, 2019 22:02:18 GMT -5
We missed Mountain wide open down the field on a second down play in the middle of the third quarter. He was literally uncovered. Instead, we threw it to the covered WR on the other side of the field for an incompletion. Problem is CD only looks and focuses in on the first/primary target and does not look at 2nd and 3rd options!
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Post by princetoncrusader on Sept 23, 2019 20:27:39 GMT -5
In at least two small but public forums--at Reunion weekend and at the CAF golf outing--Marcus stated that HC coaching salaries are at or near the bottom of the PL. While he did not mention football or any sport in particular, my guess is that HC is low across the board. One his goals is to grow the CAF annual fund to $2.5mm to address this sad situation. Institutional support has been flat. On a side note, an friend of mine interviewed for a development job with the PU athletic department. The primary focus of the job was to endow assistant coaching positions. Is there a single school in the PL that has an endowed coaching position of any kind?
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Post by joe on Sept 24, 2019 5:26:17 GMT -5
In at least two small but public forums--at Reunion weekend and at the CAF golf outing--Marcus stated that HC coaching salaries are at or near the bottom of the PL. While he did not mention football or any sport in particular, my guess is that HC is low across the board. One his goals is to grow the CAF annual fund to $2.5mm to address this sad situation. Institutional support has been flat. On a side note, an friend of mine interviewed for a development job with the PU athletic department. The primary focus of the job was to endow assistant coaching positions. Is there a single school in the PL that has an endowed coaching position of any kind? Yup. You can’t have one foot in the world of schollie FCS and one foot out. You can’t/shouldn’t invest 97M in infrastructure at the expense of paying coaches. You will NEVER get the best possible coaches and you will NEVER retain them. This is not a charity. These guys have kids and families and already have a tough schedule and are uprooted every few years. Add crappy pay to the deal and you will have a staff of project coaches. It’s too much to ask of a head coach to succeed either within the PL or nationally under this major and once again stupid handicap. I don’t care how much money the other PL teams spend on football. I only care about HC and what it takes for HC to win ballgames. The players deserve to have the best coaches to go along with their 5 star locker room. HC needs to stop putting the cart before the horse. Can’t we have an endowed coaching fund like IL schools?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 24, 2019 19:41:46 GMT -5
PL football schools For 2017-18 Average head coach salaries men's teams / (FTE basis) Bucknell $119,000 / 9.5 Colgate $145,000 / 8.5 HC $125,000 / 9.25 Lafayette $111,000 / 7 Lehigh $124,000 / 9.33
HC is at the bottom of these five for average head coaches salaries for women's teams
Average assistant coach salaries, men's teams Bucknell $40,200 / 27 Colgate $41,400 / 28 HC $38,300 / 27 Lafayette $36,400 /23 Lehigh $40,100 / 30
HC is second highest of these five when it comes to average salaries for assistant coaches, women's teams.
Of note, median salary for men's ice hockey coaches at FCS schools and Div I schools without football is similar to or higher than median head coach salary for football (all FCS). That is probably not the case at HC.
cmo said, To be clear, I am not in favor of paying a newly hired assistant, with 15 years experience coaching in Div II and/or III the salary of someone who has spent ten years as an assistant at a CAA or IL school, let alone someone whose recent experience has been at a FBS school. Looking at average salaries at a few Div II or Div III schools, someone coming from those schools to HC would get a 50 percent, 100 percent bump in pay << based on the average salary pay scale at HC.
Assuming HC' football coaches salaries total $1.3 million, and head coach has a $300,000 salary. The other ten coaches would have an average salary of $100,000.
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Post by cmo on Sept 24, 2019 19:56:21 GMT -5
PL football schools For 2017-18Average head coach salaries men's teams / (FTE basis)
Bucknell $119,000 / 9.5 Colgate $145,000 / 8.5 HC $125,000 / 9.25 Lafayette $111,000 / 7 Lehigh $124,000 / 9.33 HC is at the bottom of these five for average head coaches salaries for women's teams Average assistant coach salaries, men's teams
Bucknell $40,200 / 27 Colgate $41,400 / 28 HC $38,300 / 27 Lafayette $36,400 /23 Lehigh $40,100 / 30 HC is second highest of these five when it comes to average salaries for assistant coaches, women's teams. Of note, median salary for men's ice hockey coaches at FCS schools and Div I schools without football is similar to or higher than median head coach salary for football (all FCS). That is probably not the case at HC. cmo said, To be clear, I am not in favor of paying a newly hired assistant, with 15 years experience coaching in Div II and/or III the salary of someone who has spent ten years as an assistant at a CAA or IL school, let alone someone whose recent experience has been at a FBS school. Looking at average salaries at a few Div II or Div III schools, someone coming from those schools to HC would get a 50 percent, 100 percent bump in pay << based on the average salary pay scale at HC. Assuming HC' football coaches salaries total $1.3 million, and head coach has a $300,000 salary. The other ten coaches would have an average salary of $100,000. I can assure you our assistant football coaches are not making 100k.
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Post by hc87 on Sept 24, 2019 20:03:18 GMT -5
Yeah...I have no inside info, but that seems high...maybe the OC and DC. Something tells me HCBC isn't making 300 large either.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Sept 24, 2019 20:15:08 GMT -5
Someone tell freak to go back to his spreadsheet b/c Ches is making much less than 300 large.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 25, 2019 7:19:52 GMT -5
I did say "assuming". _____________________ In 2016-17, at 123 FCS schools, the median value for football head coaches salary and benefits was $267,000. The median value for total assistant football coaches salary and benefits at these 123 FCS schools was $667,000. Median value of salary and benefits for men's ice hockey head coaches at FCS schools (13 schools) was $256,000. For head coaches of men's basketball at FCS schools, $279,000 For FBS, non autonomous schools (59 schools), median head football coach salary and benefits was $794,000. For FBS, autonomous schools (65 schools), median value for the head football coach was $3,529,000. The autonomy schools (basically five conferences) rule the roost, when it comes to NCAA athletics. www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017RES_D1-RevExp_Entire_2017_Final_20180123.pdf
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Post by gks on Sept 25, 2019 7:43:46 GMT -5
PL football schools For 2017-18Average head coach salaries men's teams / (FTE basis)
Bucknell $119,000 / 9.5 Colgate $145,000 / 8.5 HC $125,000 / 9.25 Lafayette $111,000 / 7 Lehigh $124,000 / 9.33 HC is at the bottom of these five for average head coaches salaries for women's teams Average assistant coach salaries, men's teams
Bucknell $40,200 / 27 Colgate $41,400 / 28 HC $38,300 / 27 Lafayette $36,400 /23 Lehigh $40,100 / 30 HC is second highest of these five when it comes to average salaries for assistant coaches, women's teams. Of note, median salary for men's ice hockey coaches at FCS schools and Div I schools without football is similar to or higher than median head coach salary for football (all FCS). That is probably not the case at HC. cmo said, To be clear, I am not in favor of paying a newly hired assistant, with 15 years experience coaching in Div II and/or III the salary of someone who has spent ten years as an assistant at a CAA or IL school, let alone someone whose recent experience has been at a FBS school. Looking at average salaries at a few Div II or Div III schools, someone coming from those schools to HC would get a 50 percent, 100 percent bump in pay << based on the average salary pay scale at HC. Assuming HC' football coaches salaries total $1.3 million, and head coach has a $300,000 salary. The other ten coaches would have an average salary of $100,000. I can assure you our assistant football coaches are not making 100k. Maybe two or three combined make 100K...
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Post by gks on Sept 25, 2019 7:45:48 GMT -5
I did say "assuming". _____________________ In 2016-17, at 123 FCS schools, the median value for football head coaches salary and benefits was $267,000. The median value for total assistant football coaches salary and benefits at these 123 FCS schools was $667,000. Median value of salary and benefits for men's ice hockey head coaches at FCS schools (13 schools) was $256,000. For head coaches of men's basketball at FCS schools, $279,000 For FBS, non autonomous schools (59 schools), median head football coach salary and benefits was $794,000. For FBS, autonomous schools (65 schools), median value for the head football coach was $3,529,000. The autonomy schools (basically five conferences) rule the roost, when it comes to NCAA athletics. www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017RES_D1-RevExp_Entire_2017_Final_20180123.pdfProblem is that you are "assuming" to further your argument that football is a money-sucking waste of time. If numbers are way off they have no relevance except to push a narrative.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 25, 2019 8:05:10 GMT -5
I did say "assuming". _____________________ In 2016-17, at 123 FCS schools, the median value for football head coaches salary and benefits was $267,000. The median value for total assistant football coaches salary and benefits at these 123 FCS schools was $667,000. Median value of salary and benefits for men's ice hockey head coaches at FCS schools (13 schools) was $256,000. For head coaches of men's basketball at FCS schools, $279,000 For FBS, non autonomous schools (59 schools), median head football coach salary and benefits was $794,000. For FBS, autonomous schools (65 schools), median value for the head football coach was $3,529,000. The autonomy schools (basically five conferences) rule the roost, when it comes to NCAA athletics. www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017RES_D1-RevExp_Entire_2017_Final_20180123.pdfProblem is that you are "assuming" to further your argument that football is a money-sucking waste of time. If numbers are way off they have no relevance except to push a narrative. When have I posted that football is a money-sucking waste of time? The fact of life is that every FCS school loses money on athletics, i.e., expenses exceed generated revenue. HC, and numerous other FCS schools, have made the decision that athletics at the FCS level is worth the expense. Other schools have decided differently about how much they are willing to spend on athletics, e.g., WPI spends about 11 percent of what HC spends ($36.7 million) on athletics.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 25, 2019 8:41:26 GMT -5
"Our athletic department turns a nice profit" - No school ever except maybe Texas and Ohio State
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 25, 2019 9:31:43 GMT -5
"Our athletic department turns a nice profit" - No school ever except maybe Texas and Ohio State and no doubt Notre Dame which, I believe, does not have to share its football income with anyone
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Post by purplehaze on Sept 25, 2019 10:09:32 GMT -5
Let's kill this Yale post-game talk which has morphed into another topic - good subject which deserves a dedicated thread
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 25, 2019 13:25:52 GMT -5
Let's kill this Yale post-game talk which has morphed into another topic - good subject which deserves a dedicated thread Yes, it does. But before that thread gets started, a note on 'profit' at the Power Five schools. The median 'profit' from football was $19,025,000 in 2016-17; on men's hoops, median 'profit' was $2,841,000. No other sport was 'profitable'. Median 'loss' for women's hoops at the Power Five was $3,167,000. 'Profit' is the amount of generated revenue above expenses. A school's subsidy does not count as generated revenue.
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 26, 2019 12:53:37 GMT -5
There is also a considerable "loss" from the English Department, not to mention History, Physics, Chemistry, Political Science, etc.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 26, 2019 14:23:06 GMT -5
There is also a considerable "loss" from the English Department, not to mention History, Physics, Chemistry, Political Science, etc. Well, no. Tuition and fees cover the expenses of the academic departments. The student is paying for a transcript and a diploma. True from a budgeting standpoint, it is less expensive for the college to produce a political science major than a chemistry major, and students paying for popular majors defray the cost of offering courses for less popular majors, e.g.,Chinese, religious studies, or whatever it is called. The transcript does not record that a student was a varsity athlete, a member of a dramatic society, or an alter server. ^^^ But this discussion is secondary to what happened to the endowment in the year ending June 30, 2019. See new thread elsewhere.
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Post by gks on Sept 26, 2019 14:59:03 GMT -5
There is also a considerable "loss" from the English Department, not to mention History, Physics, Chemistry, Political Science, etc. Well, no. Tuition and fees cover the expenses of the academic departments. The student is paying for a transcript and a diploma. True from a budgeting standpoint, it is less expensive for the college to produce a political science major than a chemistry major, and students paying for popular majors defray the cost of offering courses for less popular majors, e.g.,Chinese, religious studies, or whatever it is called. The transcript does not record that a student was a varsity athlete, a member of a dramatic society, or an alter server. ^^^ But this discussion is secondary to what happened to the endowment in the year ending June 30, 2019. See new thread elsewhere. In this argument then doesn't tuition and fees cover athletics as well?
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 27, 2019 9:18:47 GMT -5
Well, no. Tuition and fees cover the expenses of the academic departments. The student is paying for a transcript and a diploma. True from a budgeting standpoint, it is less expensive for the college to produce a political science major than a chemistry major, and students paying for popular majors defray the cost of offering courses for less popular majors, e.g.,Chinese, religious studies, or whatever it is called. The transcript does not record that a student was a varsity athlete, a member of a dramatic society, or an alter server. ^^^ But this discussion is secondary to what happened to the endowment in the year ending June 30, 2019. See new thread elsewhere. In this argument then doesn't tuition and fees cover athletics as well? That's my point. We are talking about student athletes, and the education of body, mind and spirit.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 27, 2019 17:39:29 GMT -5
Well, no. Tuition and fees cover the expenses of the academic departments. The student is paying for a transcript and a diploma. True from a budgeting standpoint, it is less expensive for the college to produce a political science major than a chemistry major, and students paying for popular majors defray the cost of offering courses for less popular majors, e.g.,Chinese, religious studies, or whatever it is called. The transcript does not record that a student was a varsity athlete, a member of a dramatic society, or an alter server. ^^^ But this discussion is secondary to what happened to the endowment in the year ending June 30, 2019. See new thread elsewhere. In this argument then doesn't tuition and fees cover athletics as well? Yes and no, depending on the school. For schools where the athletic program operates at a loss, student tuition, fees, and charges would help pay for some of the program. HC does not impose a separate fee for athletics; some schools do. For those schools where the athletic program operates at a loss, the endowment could be used to help pay for athletic department expenses. I believe endowment monies are categorized as generated revenue. This could avoid using student tuition and fees. For schools whose athletic program operates at a profit, there is no need to use student tuition and fees to help pay for it. School in this position are in the Div I FBS autonomous conferences, although the athletic programs at many autonomous conference schools do not operate at a profit, e.g., BC. +++++++++++++++++ On the matter of coaches salaries and compensation, at Holy Cross in fiscal 2019, the benefits ($29.010K) for all employees amounted to nearly 35 percent of the salaries and wages ($84,400K). Thus, as an illustrative example, total compensation for an assistant coach making $65,000 salary would be about $87,000, with $22,000 of the total compensation being benefits. Again illustratively, the total compensation for eleven football coaches with a total salary of $1,000,000 would be $1,350,000 when $350,000 of benefits are added.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 27, 2019 21:08:29 GMT -5
Should we pay our assistants more ? Using the same calculation that I did for HC, and after deducting $600,000 in operating expenses and recruiting expenses, GU's coaches are paid a total of $1.4-$1.45 million. Salaries are probably a bit higher than Worcester because of cost of living adjustments for DC Metro. To answer your questions, I think HC's football coaching salaries are competitive with the rest the PL (factoring in differences in cost-of-living) and competitive with median compensation levels in all of FCS. And certainly HC represents a big jump in pay for someone who has labored at Div II and Div III schools. But the compensation is significantly below the Ivies, and quite likely most of CAA. IMO, the higher salaries at the Ivy level at least, seems to foster longevity, at the position. Would you need to pay more money to draw most of your assistants from CAA-level schools, and even FBS' lower levels, the answer is 'Yes' If your assistants are coming from NESCAC, Kutzdown State, etc., the HC salary levels are already more than sufficient. Experience in FCS is valuable, of course. But after seeing the strain on the endowment you pointed out, I don't mind younger, energetic assistants coming from lower divisions. It would be a nice balance to have the two coordinators be FCS veterans to mentor the younger coaches given the Head Coach is making his first stop in FCS.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 27, 2019 21:14:05 GMT -5
Will the Yale "in-game" commentary finally stop when the NEXT game kicks off??? I hope so...and many we find positive things to post about HC.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 27, 2019 21:20:17 GMT -5
2 different topics I'd like to comment on. 1. Are BU or NU sports significantly upgraded since those schools dropped football? I tend to say "no", especially w/regard to NU; not that I blame them in any way for ditching the football program. 2. I'm not seeing play calling terribly different from the Gilmore days (didn't they line up in the backfield the same way, and let's not forget the preponderance of Diquan Walker up the middle calls in tough spots that for the most part, failed). Yes, different caliber qb but same caliber (and in fact, in one case, same player) running backs. Yes, I'd like that offense for the most part put on ice, or at least modified to include snaps under center in short yardage situations. I think that unless you have fantastic players, that offense has been caught up to. But aside from that, I have a deep-rooted feeling that our offensive line is weak or we'd be having a little more success than what's been demonstrated. When it improves, that and the qb; the offense will improve. NU and BU hockey were in a power conference before and after dropping football. BU and NU basketball has been generally better than HC in recent years, but probably not because they have more to spend. Their minor sports have to be better than HC, maybe some resources have been diverted there. One thing we learned by the racket all the club sports players made at last season's club sports night BB game vs HC is that BU's "participatory model" includes a plethora of club sports and perhaps resources from dropping varsity football and baseball was directed to benefit all the club sport student athletes.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 27, 2019 21:33:28 GMT -5
Problem is that you are "assuming" to further your argument that football is a money-sucking waste of time. If numbers are way off they have no relevance except to push a narrative. When have I posted that football is a money-sucking waste of time? The fact of life is that every FCS school loses money on athletics, i.e., expenses exceed generated revenue. HC, and numerous other FCS schools, have made the decision that athletics at the FCS level is worth the expense. Other schools have decided differently about how much they are willing to spend on athletics, e.g., WPI spends about 11 percent of what HC spends ($36.7 million) on athletics. That figure of WPI spending 11% of what HC spends stunned me. Their overall W/L record across all sports is always better than HC and their teams go to the NCAA more often than HC. Knock me over with a feather.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 27, 2019 21:48:50 GMT -5
When have I posted that football is a money-sucking waste of time? The fact of life is that every FCS school loses money on athletics, i.e., expenses exceed generated revenue. HC, and numerous other FCS schools, have made the decision that athletics at the FCS level is worth the expense. Other schools have decided differently about how much they are willing to spend on athletics, e.g., WPI spends about 11 percent of what HC spends ($36.7 million) on athletics. That figure of WPI spending 11% of what HC spends stunned me. Their overall W/L record across all sports is always better than HC and their teams go to the NCAA more often than HC. Knock me over with a feather. This puzzles me as well. WPI has 18 varsity sports and dozens of coaches, e.g. 8 for football, 5 for basketball, 4 for baseball. Are most of the coaches part-timers being paid $25,000 a year and working another full-time job? I'm sure some of the coaches are volunteers, but I can't imagine that all are.
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