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Post by thecrossisback on Sept 22, 2019 7:08:40 GMT -5
Tough game to watch in person. Referees stunk. Missed blatant pass interference calls.
Defense played great and the offense wasted every opportunity.
Why 1 on 1 do we not get the ball to Ayeni? Mountain only one catch.
Degenhardt didn't turn the ball over but really struggles with wether to keep the ball or run with it.
Well 1-2
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Post by lou on Sept 22, 2019 7:18:12 GMT -5
Our QB seems very reluctant to run with the ball. Although it's mentioned that he had impressive stats in HS
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Post by HC92 on Sept 22, 2019 7:28:58 GMT -5
Tough game to watch in person. Referees stunk. Missed blatant pass interference calls. Defense played great and the offense wasted every opportunity. Why 1 on 1 do we not get the ball to Ayeni? Mountain only one catch. Degenhardt didn't turn the ball over but really struggles with wether to keep the ball or run with it. Well 1-2 We missed Mountain wide open down the field on a second down play in the middle of the third quarter. He was literally uncovered. Instead, we threw it to the covered WR on the other side of the field for an incompletion.
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Post by hcpride on Sept 22, 2019 7:54:06 GMT -5
You sure don't sound as though you do know our history. I was there for much of it. Look, we all want to see HC succeed but if you keep yearning for past glory you will never be able to enjoy our successes which are sure to come in this era. You will never be satisfied, never enjoy the wins, never be a happy Crusader. Football, one FBS bowl game , never to be repeated . B-ball no more national championships never to be repeated. Div. 1AA decade long glory of the 80's is gone, never to be repeated. And, it's ok. Appreciate what we all have, namely a wonderful college which competes in a high academic league and we will succeed, win a lot of games, win championships , no doubt about it. Enjoy it. And, let us both continue to LoveHC That's where the problem lies. High-Academic-League? What does that mean? Is that like a B league version of the Ivy's? Does that include Williams and Amherst? For the people that believe in this "vision", I want all the specifics of how it is suppose to look. Patriot League schools are playing a silly game with all their stupid rules around scholarships. Did we move to scholarships to compete or pretend to compete? Good point. When folks think high academic league and Northeast they may think Ivy or perhaps Ivy and NESCAC. It is true that some CAA schools have a stronger academic reputation than some PL schools and some CAA teams have a weaker academic reputation than some PL schools. I guess one could use that uneven evidence to call us a high academic league. (Beyond that, a couple of posters noted CD and a reluctance to have him run or scramble and I think that is because he is relatively slow-footed v our OOC)
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billy72
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 95
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Post by billy72 on Sept 22, 2019 8:08:02 GMT -5
Can’t believe that attendance yesterday was less than 6,000 ! Both sad and pathetic !!!
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Post by gks on Sept 22, 2019 8:44:05 GMT -5
Don’t understand why Chesney can’t see the offensive ineptitude. I'm pretty sure he sees it.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 22, 2019 8:45:07 GMT -5
Can’t believe that attendance yesterday was less than 6,000 ! Both sad and pathetic !!! Very light crowd. Tough to tell how much of the crowd was HC because it was about 20 degrees warmer on our side. Fair amount of purple sprinkled in on the Yale side due to heat issues on the other side. Yale side had some shade from the press box which we took advantage of in the second half.
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Post by gks on Sept 22, 2019 8:46:21 GMT -5
Someone please compile our total number of 3 and outs - atrocious 11 drives today — not counting the one at the end of the half. Eight three and outs. Bring Mike Pedone back to call plays. Mike Pedone had Dom Randolph...
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Post by gks on Sept 22, 2019 8:51:24 GMT -5
I was at the game, today. Some observations: Sun was hot. My wife stood in the shade of the tunnel for much of the game but we are still talking. Yale was clearly the superior team with more talent, bigger, faster and deeper this year. Remember, they are a veteran IL championship team with many returning seniors. Play calling did not cost HC the victory. The Yale lines on both offense and defense were dominant. Our tackling appeared sloppy at times probably due to their speed and our defender being out of position. Corners and safeties beaten a number of times. Dudek was a monster, just the type of smash mouth back that HC needs. Oh, Chuckie Doyle, where are you? Rawlings, the Yale qb was a treat to watch. Third start for Degenheart. He was overly timid, fearful of throwing the int. Some of his passes were just out of the reach of the defender but unfortunately slightly beyond the grasp of our receiver. I don't understand the shotgun inside the five but then I'm old and there is much I don' understand. Expect a more varied, improved offense. New qb? Maybe, depends on who they have. I would not give up on Degenhart. The name is Domenic Crozier, not Jose or JuanCrozier or whatever the "announcer" said. Crozier is wonderful as are our other skill position players. Ng is the real deal! Sophs looked good. More wins are in the near future Despite all of this, it was a game HC could have won. HC was in it and struggling to win for most of this game The players are pumped. Great attitude. As for Yale, payback is a bxxxtch. Next year! I expect HC to make some noise in the PL. I love this team. And, LOVEHC That one line says it all.
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Post by gks on Sept 22, 2019 8:53:07 GMT -5
Aside from Mr. Spread 'em and shred 'em, the RB coach is in his first season, he played at Endicott, and coached running backs for two years at AIC. The WR coach, also in his first season, was a walk-on at Pitt, coached at Thiel, Carnegie Mellon, and Maine Maritime, and most recently, four years at Columbia. At Yale, the OC is in his eighth season at Yale. He is also the QB coach. Prior to Yale, four years at Maine, Murray State for two, and Tennessee Martin for two. The RB coach is in his fifth season as RB coach. Offensive quality control assistant at Tennessee for two years. Played at Bowling Green. The WR coach is in his sixth year at Yale. Played for Hofstra, coached at UNH, McNeese State, SE Louisiana, and Sacred Heart. I view these three HC offensive assistant coaches as short on Div I experience, and having limited experience with Chesney's thinking. By season's end, these three coaches will have had a total of four seasons coaching under Chesney. IMO, this lack of both experience and familiarity is a recipe for underachievement on the gridiron.. Yale actually pays their assistants a decent salary which in turn allows them to stay. HC's reluctance to up the coaching budget to modern times is and has been a HUGE problem.
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Post by richh on Sept 22, 2019 8:57:26 GMT -5
You sure don't sound as though you do know our history. I was there for much of it. Look, we all want to see HC succeed but if you keep yearning for past glory you will never be able to enjoy our successes which are sure to come in this era. You will never be satisfied, never enjoy the wins, never be a happy Crusader. Football, one FBS bowl game , never to be repeated . B-ball no more national championships never to be repeated. Div. 1AA decade long glory of the 80's is gone, never to be repeated. And, it's ok. Appreciate what we all have, namely a wonderful college which competes in a high academic league and we will succeed, win a lot of games, win championships , no doubt about it. Enjoy it. And, let us both continue to LoveHC That's where the problem lies. High-Academic-League? What does that mean? Is that like a B league version of the Ivy's? Does that include Williams and Amherst? For the people that believe in this "vision", I want all the specifics of how it is suppose to look. Patriot League schools are playing a silly game with all their stupid rules around scholarships. Did we move to scholarships to compete or pretend to compete? Fordham forced schollies on the PL and rightly so. In response the Ivy Lite crew led by Lafayette took their pound of flesh with caps on schollies and roster. The AI floor,aka the Fordham Rule partly a reaction to Rams lower admission standards theoretically giving it an unfair advantage ( see Ivy AI for this one). It was also a slap at Fordham for forcing schollies. At that time Colgate Lehigh and Colgate were pro schollie. Lafayette Bucknell and Georgetown opposed. Holy Cross leaned towards opposition but stood undecided. Army and Navy were able to broker a deal with some pressure and a promise to schedule Pats'teams. A compromise which is the half ass mess we have now. It is a patently absurd system of limitations imposed mostly to ease financial burdens on some schools ie Lafayette and Holy Cross particularly. Clear that these restrictions must be lifted if PL is to compete at all outside our conference. 63 schollies and no roster cap are the minimum to go forward. Redshirting is the next and much needed reform. Again partially an initial financial issue. I doubt we will ever have unlimited NCAA redshirting but we could allow a set number of permitted redshirts per year up to a set max in any 4 year period. Of course the inherent risk is the Council will react by saying schollies dont work, we tried, go back to need aid.
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Post by HC92 on Sept 22, 2019 9:15:24 GMT -5
CAA went 7-0 against FCS teams yesterday. Only two losses were to Wake and ECU.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 22, 2019 9:17:36 GMT -5
CD's numbers are sub-optimal with 52% completion percentage and 6.3 yards per attempt. Still, I am keeping in mind that he has posted these numbers against three very tough teams. I don't expect him to post a 20 for 30 for 275 yards and 3 TD's versus Syracuse, but he does deserve the opportunity to show us what he can do against PL defenses. I have to think our receivers will find it easier to gain separation versus PL defensive backs than versus Navy, UNH, and Yale.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 22, 2019 9:18:20 GMT -5
That's where the problem lies. High-Academic-League? What does that mean? Is that like a B league version of the Ivy's? Does that include Williams and Amherst? For the people that believe in this "vision", I want all the specifics of how it is suppose to look. Patriot League schools are playing a silly game with all their stupid rules around scholarships. Did we move to scholarships to compete or pretend to compete? Fordham forced schollies on the PL and rightly so. In response the Ivy Lite crew led by Lafayette took their pound of flesh with caps on schollies and roster. The AI floor,aka the Fordham Rule partly a reaction to Rams lower admission standards theoretically giving it an unfair advantage ( see Ivy AI for this one). It was also a slap at Fordham for forcing schollies. At that time Colgate Lehigh and Colgate were pro schollie. Lafayette Bucknell and Georgetown opposed. Holy Cross leaned towards opposition but stood undecided. Army and Navy were able to broker a deal with some pressure and a promise to schedule Pats'teams. A compromise which is the half ass mess we have now. It is a patently absurd system of limitations imposed mostly to ease financial burdens on some schools ie Lafayette and Holy Cross particularly. Clear that these restrictions must be lifted if PL is to compete at all outside our conference. 63 schollies and no roster cap are the minimum to go forward. Redshirting is the next and much needed reform. Again partially an initial financial issue. I doubt we will ever have unlimited NCAA redshirting but we could allow a set number of permitted redshirts per year up to a set max in any 4 year period. Of course the inherent risk is the Council will react by saying schollies dont work, we tried, go back to need aid. Is HC just cheap, or are we poor compared to the rest of the PL, or are we just small and more burdened financially because additional spending on football has to be spread over fewer tuitions?
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Post by HC92 on Sept 22, 2019 9:20:27 GMT -5
I’m sure it’s in one of these threads but where were Oliver and Alexander yesterday?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 22, 2019 9:23:19 GMT -5
Aside from Mr. Spread 'em and shred 'em, the RB coach is in his first season, he played at Endicott, and coached running backs for two years at AIC. The WR coach, also in his first season, was a walk-on at Pitt, coached at Thiel, Carnegie Mellon, and Maine Maritime, and most recently, four years at Columbia. ... I view these three HC offensive assistant coaches as short on Div I experience, and having limited experience with Chesney's thinking. By season's end, these three coaches will have had a total of four seasons coaching under Chesney. IMO, this lack of both experience and familiarity is a recipe for underachievement on the gridiron.. Should we pay our assistants more to make the position more attractive? Below for 2017/18, are the average head coaches and assistant coaches salaries for some PL, NEC, and Ivy schools. For each school, the first value is the number of head coaches (expressed as Full Time Equivalent) for men's sports, and the second value is the average salary for these head coaches (again an FTE count). The list repeats for assistant coaches for men';s sports. At the bottom of the lists are the same two values for AIC, Assumption, and Tufts. (These schools, plus Columbia, were where Chesney and the three assistants (OC, RB coach, and WR coach) last coached before HC.) Note: NYC and Boston schools have higher compensation because of cost of living and taxes. Georgetown is atypically high because of the salary of the former hoops head coach. Head coachesBostU 8.25/ $197,000 Brown 12.4 / 141,000 Bryant 8 / 130,000 Bucknell 9.5 / 119,000 CCSU 5.5 / 207,000 Colgate 8.5 / 145,000 HC 9.25 / 125,000 Columbia 12/ 207,000 Cornell 13 / 154,000 Dartmouth 12.5 / 131,000 Fordham 6 / 216,000 Georgetown 8.5 / 605,000 Harvard 14 / 162,000 Lafayette 7 / 110,000 Lehigh 9.3 / 124,000 AIC 7 / 71,400 Assumption 6 / 57,400 Tufts 10.8 / 77,100 Assistant coachesBostU 14 / $72,600 Brown 26.5 / 65,100 Bryant 15 / 63,000 Bucknell 21.5 / 51,000 CCSU 14.4 / 85,000 Colgate 21.3 / 54,300 HC 19 / 54,800 Columbia 25.4 / 92,700 Cornell 28 / 75,000 Dartmouth 29 / 61,000 Fordham 18.25 / 68,000 Georgetown 19.5 / 93,800 Harvard 33.6 / 75,000 Lafayette 18 / 46,500 Lehigh 23 / 52,200 AIC 7.7 / 39,200 Assumption 9.25 / 18,700 Tufts 15.7 / 44,100 Tufts football includes no financial aid. One can thus guesstimate average total compensation for the 11 football coaches after deducting operating expenses, and making an allowance for recruiting expenses. Tufts football total expenses $630,000 Operating expenses $89,500 Estimated total coaches salaries $500-520,000 Fair assumption that an assistant coach moving up from Div III or Div II is receiving a significant bump in compensation.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 22, 2019 9:24:19 GMT -5
None of those options appears correct, IMHO. If money was not spent on football, there is no certainty it would be spent on any other sports. In fact, with Title IX issues, we might even see less spent on women's teams without the need to offset the money spent on a "men's" sport. HC has a good endowment and is not "poor" compared to the rest of the PL.
Cheap is a possibility, or the fact that TPTB do not understand the importance of good assistants - and keeping them on board. TG had issues with tiurmnover of assistants, but that may have been only partially becAuse of money. Not understanding the role of athletics in the overall college experience may also play a role here. Participation is certainly a part of that, but not the be all and end all.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 22, 2019 9:54:46 GMT -5
Should we pay our assistants more to make the position more attractive? ............... Tufts football includes no financial aid. One can thus guesstimate average total compensation for the 11 football coaches after deducting operating expenses, and making an allowance for recruiting expenses. Tufts football total expenses $630,000 Operating expenses $89,500 Estimated total coaches salaries $500-520,000 Fair assumption that an assistant coach moving up from Div III or Div II is receiving a significant bump in compensation. Doing a calculation for Holy Cross similar to that for Tufts, but factoring financial aid. Total HC football expenses $6,130,000 Scollie aid @ $63,000 per scollie $3,800,000 Operating expenses $560,000 Recruiting expenses estimated at $140,000 Leaving $1,630,000 for coaches salaries and compensation. This is probably high because it may include buyout of CTG and several months of compensation for new replacemebnt hires in the spring of 2018, while former assistants were still being contractually paid.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 22, 2019 11:34:15 GMT -5
2 different topics I'd like to comment on.
1. Are BU or NU sports significantly upgraded since those schools dropped football? I tend to say "no", especially w/regard to NU; not that I blame them in any way for ditching the football program. 2. I'm not seeing play calling terribly different from the Gilmore days (didn't they line up in the backfield the same way, and let's not forget the preponderance of Diquan Walker up the middle calls in tough spots that for the most part, failed). Yes, different caliber qb but same caliber (and in fact, in one case, same player) running backs. Yes, I'd like that offense for the most part put on ice, or at least modified to include snaps under center in short yardage situations. I think that unless you have fantastic players, that offense has been caught up to. But aside from that, I have a deep-rooted feeling that our offensive line is weak or we'd be having a little more success than what's been demonstrated. When it improves, that and the qb; the offense will improve.
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Post by cmo on Sept 22, 2019 11:49:32 GMT -5
............... Tufts football includes no financial aid. One can thus guesstimate average total compensation for the 11 football coaches after deducting operating expenses, and making an allowance for recruiting expenses. Tufts football total expenses $630,000 Operating expenses $89,500 Estimated total coaches salaries $500-520,000 Fair assumption that an assistant coach moving up from Div III or Div II is receiving a significant bump in compensation. Doing a calculation for Holy Cross similar to that for Tufts, but factoring financial aid. Total HC football expenses $6,130,000 Scollie aid @ $63,000 per scollie $3,800,000 Operating expenses $560,000 Recruiting expenses estimated at $140,000 Leaving $1,630,000 for coaches salaries and compensation. This is probably high because it may include buyout of CTG and several months of compensation for new replacemebnt hires in the spring of 2018, while former assistants were still being contractually paid. Should we pay our assistants more ?
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hc68
Freshman
Posts: 11
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Post by hc68 on Sept 22, 2019 12:03:29 GMT -5
It is my understanding that TG, although a truly fine man, had become increasingly difficult to work with due to his overstressed reaction to his internal pressure to win which he felt very strongly. He was a career winner in a losing position. Evidently, he was a 24/7 type of coach and could be quite short tempered with his staff. I was not there but this is what I was told. I do wish him well. Does anyone seriously maintain that our two losses - Navy and Yale - were due to the incompetence of our assistant coaches? Yale out executed HC on both offense and defense and quite frankly I was surprised that we were able to stay in the game for well into the second half. I am not particularly concerned about PL OOC wins/losses. I could not give a rat's butt about Old Dominion or CAA football or any other OOC teams. It is always good to win against any opponent but IMO the OOC games are merely tune ups for the all important PL competition. My interest lies with HC and intraleague games within the PL. I like to think that I am taking the long view about HC football. Our coaches stepped into a program that was mired in years of frustrating failure with losses on the field and a high turnover of assistants. This is the second year of a new regime and apparently HC is recruiting better players but this year's freshman class is truly their first recruited class. The "D" looks good but the offense needs to improve but the qb has started in only three games all against superior teams. The sky is not falling, I am not going to hyperventilate and call for firings and blame everyone early in the truly first season of a new coach with young inexperienced players. I am going to wait till the end of the season and make my evaluation hopefully after an HC PL championship. At which point I'm sure many will still be complaining and writing about the need to trash the academic standards of our small high academic quality liberal arts college. in a bid for unrivaled football glory. If one finds HC elitist because of its profile then maybe ND, BC or another FBS power would be a better fit for your college football interest and goals. Certainly, HC and the PL does not satisfy your personal ambition. No insult meant to anyone but I am merely reacting to the tenor of the comments from some on this board. As for me, I appreciate this team and LoveHC Well said. finally someone who makes sense.
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hc68
Freshman
Posts: 11
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Post by hc68 on Sept 22, 2019 12:05:08 GMT -5
2 different topics I'd like to comment on. 1. Are BU or NU sports significantly upgraded since those schools dropped football? I tend to say "no", especially w/regard to NU; not that I blame them in any way for ditching the football program. 2. I'm not seeing play calling terribly different from the Gilmore days (didn't they line up in the backfield the same way, and let's not forget the preponderance of Diquan Walker up the middle calls in tough spots that for the most part, failed). Yes, different caliber qb but same caliber (and in fact, in one case, same player) running backs. Yes, I'd like that offense for the most part put on ice, or at least modified to include snaps under center in short yardage situations. I think that unless you have fantastic players, that offense has been caught up to. But aside from that, I have a deep-rooted feeling that our offensive line is weak or we'd be having a little more success than what's been demonstrated. When it improves, that and the qb; the offense will improve. Two posts that make sense, what's happening? We nee 43 back.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 22, 2019 15:28:10 GMT -5
It is my understanding that TG, although a truly fine man, had become increasingly difficult to work with due to his overstressed reaction to his internal pressure to win which he felt very strongly. He was a career winner in a losing position. Evidently, he was a 24/7 type of coach and could be quite short tempered with his staff. I was not there but this is what I was told. I do wish him well. Does anyone seriously maintain that our two losses - Navy and Yale - were due to the incompetence of our assistant coaches? Yale out executed HC on both offense and defense and quite frankly I was surprised that we were able to stay in the game for well into the second half. I am not particularly concerned about PL OOC wins/losses. I could not give a rat's butt about Old Dominion or CAA football or any other OOC teams. It is always good to win against any opponent but IMO the OOC games are merely tune ups for the all important PL competition. My interest lies with HC and intraleague games within the PL. I like to think that I am taking the long view about HC football. Our coaches stepped into a program that was mired in years of frustrating failure with losses on the field and a high turnover of assistants. This is the second year of a new regime and apparently HC is recruiting better players but this year's freshman class is truly their first recruited class. The "D" looks good but the offense needs to improve but the qb has started in only three games all against superior teams. The sky is not falling, I am not going to hyperventilate and call for firings and blame everyone early in the truly first season of a new coach with young inexperienced players. I am going to wait till the end of the season and make my evaluation hopefully after an HC PL championship. At which point I'm sure many will still be complaining and writing about the need to trash the academic standards of our small high academic quality liberal arts college. in a bid for unrivaled football glory. If one finds HC elitist because of its profile then maybe ND, BC or another FBS power would be a better fit for your college football interest and goals. Certainly, HC and the PL does not satisfy your personal ambition. No insult meant to anyone but I am merely reacting to the tenor of the comments from some on this board. As for me, I appreciate this team and LoveHC I agree with much of this post, and am also indifferent to ODU. But I would like HC to be competitive with regional foes like UNH, Brown, Yale and Harvard. I feel good all are on this year's schedule along with Navy and Syracuse. I don't expect us to be competitive yet with the FBS teams, but I do care how we do against other regional FCS teams that we have been playing for a century or so. I don't want Holy Cross to slip below the quality of our traditional FCS rivals either due to factors Holy Cross can control or because our league has devolved into lower quality football than the other FCS leagues that cover the Northeast. And as traditional opponents like BU and NU have been replaced in the New England FCS landscape by Bryant, SHU and Merrimack, I definitely don't want to see HC football slip behind them in quality either. I think we have a shot at winning the PL and look forward to that race, too.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 22, 2019 18:05:34 GMT -5
Doing a calculation for Holy Cross similar to that for Tufts, but factoring financial aid. Total HC football expenses $6,130,000 Scollie aid @ $63,000 per scollie $3,800,000 Operating expenses $560,000 Recruiting expenses estimated at $140,000 Leaving $1,630,000 for coaches salaries and compensation. This is probably high because it may include buyout of CTG and several months of compensation for new replacemebnt hires in the spring of 2018, while former assistants were still being contractually paid. Should we pay our assistants more ? Using the same calculation that I did for HC, and after deducting $600,000 in operating expenses and recruiting expenses, GU's coaches are paid a total of $1.4-$1.45 million. Salaries are probably a bit higher than Worcester because of cost of living adjustments for DC Metro. To answer your questions, I think HC's football coaching salaries are competitive with the rest the PL (factoring in differences in cost-of-living) and competitive with median compensation levels in all of FCS. And certainly HC represents a big jump in pay for someone who has labored at Div II and Div III schools. But the compensation is significantly below the Ivies, and quite likely most of CAA. IMO, the higher salaries at the Ivy level at least, seems to foster longevity, at the position. Would you need to pay more money to draw most of your assistants from CAA-level schools, and even FBS' lower levels, the answer is 'Yes' If your assistants are coming from NESCAC, Kutzdown State, etc., the HC salary levels are already more than sufficient.
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Post by cmo on Sept 22, 2019 18:18:16 GMT -5
Should we pay our assistants more ? Using the same calculation that I did for HC, and after deducting $600,000 in operating expenses and recruiting expenses, GU's coaches are paid a total of $1.4-$1.45 million. Salaries are probably a bit higher than Worcester because of cost of living adjustments for DC Metro. To answer your questions, I think HC's football coaching salaries are competitive with the rest the PL (factoring in differences in cost-of-living) and competitive with median compensation levels in all of FCS. And certainly HC represents a big jump in pay for someone who has labored at Div II and Div III schools. But the compensation is significantly below the Ivies, and quite likely most of CAA. IMO, the higher salaries at the Ivy level at least, seems to foster longevity, at the position. Would you need to pay more money to draw most of your assistants from CAA-level schools, and even FBS' lower levels, the answer is 'Yes' If your assistants are coming from NESCAC, Kutzdown State, etc., the HC salary levels are already more than sufficient. Right, and your position is we should be hiring assistants with better “pedigree.” If so, we need to pay them more. But again, as we’ve seen on the hoops side, just because you coached at a big school (ND, Northwestern), that doesn’t guarantee success.
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