Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2019 14:46:05 GMT -5
It was pretty strange how HC went from putting up 51 points against UNH, 26 against a good Dartmouth team, 36 the week prior against Monmouth, and then shutout against Yale where they could only muster eight first downs all game. It's almost like FOC Brian Rock forgot how to coach for this game. He was too busy nominating himself for Assistant Coach of The Year to concentrate on the game. goholycross.com/news/2017/11/29/211687627.aspx
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 19, 2019 14:50:26 GMT -5
One man’s opinion, he was part of the problem not part of the solution.
|
|
|
Post by Crucis#1 on Nov 19, 2019 16:16:58 GMT -5
There has been a lot of drama across the spectrum of Holy Cross Athletics during the past 50 years.
Football, Men’s Basketball, Women’s Basketball, Men’s Lacrosse, Men’s Soccer are the programs that have had issues. At times, more than I care to comprehend how the programs and coaching staffs were snake-bit.
|
|
|
Post by HC16 on Nov 19, 2019 17:04:39 GMT -5
Are future generations going to be relitigating TG's coaching in 50 years along with Jack Donohue's tenure which would be 100 years past? If past actions of this board can accurately predict the future, the answer is "yes" Past results can't predict, but they can be predictive. Sorry, I've been at an analytics conference for the last 2 days 😉
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Nov 19, 2019 17:41:03 GMT -5
My two cents. The seeds of what happened at Yale were planted in Hanover. ____________ When a long-time Ivy hoops coach was let go a few years back, one significant factor was that the team came to believe that they knew more about hoops than the coach. I say this with respect to a team's confidence in its coach. When a team (or organization) no longer has confidence in your leadership, then you're up the creek as a coach or manager. iirc, there was a PAT blocked that would have won the game at the buzzer, but it was blocked and they lost in OT, going for two and not making it. I think that was the second blocked kick in that game....the team was pissed at him for that decision?
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2019 18:39:41 GMT -5
My two cents. The seeds of what happened at Yale were planted in Hanover. ____________ When a long-time Ivy hoops coach was let go a few years back, one significant factor was that the team came to believe that they knew more about hoops than the coach. I say this with respect to a team's confidence in its coach. When a team (or organization) no longer has confidence in your leadership, then you're up the cre; i.e., littleek as a coach or manager. iirc, there was a PAT blocked that would have won the game at the buzzer, but it was blocked and they lost in OT, going for two and not making it. I think that was the second blocked kick in that game....the team was pissed at him for that decision? I recall an explanation for going for the two rather than one was he did not think HC would win if there was a second or third OT; i.e., low confidence in the team being competitive if the night wore on in an OT duel. End it now one way or the other.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 19, 2019 18:44:05 GMT -5
It’s not exactly uncommon to go for two and the win as a road underdog.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 19, 2019 18:49:26 GMT -5
iirc, there was a PAT blocked that would have won the game at the buzzer, but it was blocked and they lost in OT, going for two and not making it. I think that was the second blocked kick in that game....the team was pissed at him for that decision? I recall an explanation for going for the two rather than one was he did not think HC would win if there was a second or third OT; i.e., low confidence in the team being competitive if the night wore on in an OT duel. End it now one way or the other. Maybe you spoke to TG and he told you this, but his words don't reflect that thought whatsoever. From his weekly recap of the game -- One of the benefits of going second in overtime is that you know what you need to do based on the opponent's production on their possession. We could have attempted a PAT to tie, putting the game into a second overtime period or we could go for the win with a two-point conversion. The mentality of this team is to go for the win, which is what we did.Sounds like he had confidence in his offense to get three yards and the win -- something the team wanted to do.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2019 19:39:18 GMT -5
His statement after the game was
HC had tied the game when after driving 80 yards, and 4th and six on the Dartmouth six with 13 seconds clock, PP hit Blaise Bell in the back of the end zone. The PAT attempt was low and blocked. Having lost the toss, Dartmouth had the ball first in OT. Dartmouth scored in four plays; HC scored in seven plays.
The next game was Lafayette at Fitton. Lafayette was 0-3, opponents had averaged 44 points in Lafayette's three losses. HC managed to score 7 points, and lost 10-7.
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Nov 19, 2019 19:49:30 GMT -5
Didn't we go for it on a 4th and 1 deep in our own territory very late vs Lafayette? 15 yards for piling on....I know I have tried to avoid posting here....but you guys keep pulling me back in
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 19, 2019 20:58:37 GMT -5
Didn't we go for it on a 4th and 1 deep in our own territory very late vs Lafayette? 15 yards for piling on....I know I have tried to avoid posting here....but you guys keep pulling me back in Yes. the score was tied. Lafayette took possession and booted the winning FG. For me, CTG was an enigma. One of the innately brightest coaches in all of college football, and who supposedly was the hardest worker who put in the longest hours of anyone on the Hill, --and yet the results on the field were not commensurate with the time and effort he devoted to getting his team ready to win. As he himself said, if he had taken his UPenn degree and gone into the private sector, he would have been a multi-millionaire. I have no doubt that would have been the case.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Nov 19, 2019 21:03:01 GMT -5
Well, yeah, maybe the Lafayette decision, game before Yale, is what pissed people off.
I'm not sure about what TG did at Dartmouth that was bad, it's up to him to sense if his defense has nothing left in the tank, which they might well have had at that point.
Plus, the group that probably had the most to gripe about that decision was the D, and, obviously, they played quite well vs Lafayette.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 19, 2019 21:35:30 GMT -5
Well, yeah, maybe the Lafayette decision, game before Yale, is what pissed people off. I'm not sure about what TG did at Dartmouth that was bad, it's up to him to sense if his defense has nothing left in the tank, which they might well have had at that point. Plus, the group that probably had the most to gripe about that decision was the D, and, obviously, they played quite well vs Lafayette. The decision to go-for-it deep in our own territory isn't the gripe that people should have had about the Lafayette game that year. The fact that the game was even competitive is what was most upsetting. We were a borderline Top-25 FCS team three weeks removed from hanging 52 points on UNH, with a veteran offense and we couldn't muster more than 7 points against an awful Patriot League team at home. Mountain dropped a sure TD pass in the second quarter of that game that would've put us up 14-0 and basically sealed the win the way our defense was playing. Needless to say, it was all "downhill" from there (pun intended). Unfortunately, the Lafayette loss coupled with the disaster against Yale were clear evidence change was needed.
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 20, 2019 8:32:33 GMT -5
Well, yeah, maybe the Lafayette decision, game before Yale, is what pissed people off. I'm not sure about what TG did at Dartmouth that was bad, it's up to him to sense if his defense has nothing left in the tank, which they might well have had at that point. Plus, the group that probably had the most to gripe about that decision was the D, and, obviously, they played quite well vs Lafayette. The Dartmouth newspaper reported it was an unusually warm and muggy night. I don't quibble with the strategy of winning the toss and opting to play defense because if your defense holds the opponent to a FG or less, that gives you more play-calling options when its your turn on offense. If there was a second OT, I believe, under the rules, HC's offense would try first to score. A TD would have meant that HC had scored TD's on three consecutive possessions against a tough foe. (HC also had gone 6 for 6 in fourth down conversions; how many times do you want to roll the dice?) It may have been that CTG felt the team was running on fumes at that point, and the best he might hope for in the second OT was a FG. Then Dartmouth is in the driver's seat when it comes to play-calling during their possession. IMO, his going for the two was not an unsound strategy. Whether highly competitive football players who are on the playing field would concur, I don't know. And if HC had won at Dartmouth, I would have bet the mortgage that HC would easily beat Lafayette.
|
|
|
Post by Ignutz on Nov 20, 2019 16:48:44 GMT -5
Well, yeah, maybe the Lafayette decision, game before Yale, is what pissed people off. I'm not sure about what TG did at Dartmouth that was bad, it's up to him to sense if his defense has nothing left in the tank, which they might well have had at that point. Plus, the group that probably had the most to gripe about that decision was the D, and, obviously, they played quite well vs Lafayette. The Dartmouth newspaper reported it was an unusually warm and muggy night. I don't quibble with the strategy of winning the toss and opting to play defense because if your defense holds the opponent to a FG or less, that gives you more play-calling options when its your turn on offense. If there was a second OT, I believe, under the rules, HC's offense would try first to score. A TD would have meant that HC had scored TD's on three consecutive possessions against a tough foe. (HC also had gone 6 for 6 in fourth down conversions; how many times do you want to roll the dice?) It may have been that CTG felt the team was running on fumes at that point, and the best he might hope for in the second OT was a FG. Then Dartmouth is in the driver's seat when it comes to play-calling during their possession. IMO, his going for the two was not an unsound strategy. Whether highly competitive football players who are on the playing field would concur, I don't know. And if HC had won at Dartmouth, I would have bet the mortgage that HC would easily beat Lafayette. And with that, there might not be a Gilmore Grumblings thread today, Chesney would be somewhere other than HC, and who knows what else. Ah, the flutter of a butterfly's wings.............................
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Nov 20, 2019 17:07:09 GMT -5
And with that, there might not be a Gilmore Grumblings thread today, Chesney would be somewhere other than HC, and who knows what else. Ah, the flutter of a butterfly's wings............................. And an older analogy..."For want of a nail the horse was lost..."
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Nov 20, 2019 17:22:29 GMT -5
Didn't we go for it on a 4th and 1 deep in our own territory very late vs Lafayette? 15 yards for piling on....I know I have tried to avoid posting here....but you guys keep pulling me back in I have tried to avoid posting here
if you have something that you think adds to the discussion then do it. WHAT ELSE IS CROSSPORTS FOR??? again, u no like. u no read.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Nov 20, 2019 19:03:50 GMT -5
Ahhh! Moose, you have my nomination for Class Poet Laureate.
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Nov 20, 2019 19:17:28 GMT -5
Ahhh! Moose, you have my nomination for Class Poet Laureate. it must be the ogden nash in me!!!
|
|
|
Post by joutsHC77 on Nov 20, 2019 20:40:43 GMT -5
Dean, please close this beaten to death thread!
|
|
|
Post by moose1970 on Nov 20, 2019 23:47:54 GMT -5
Dean, please close this beaten to death thread! all kidding aside i do agree that comments should remain related to the thread topic but stream of consciousness does have some merit. See James Joyce, Virginia Woolf, Marcel Proust...
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Nov 21, 2019 7:13:38 GMT -5
OK...sidetrack. I remember going over stream of consciousness in detail when going over Faulkner's The Sound and the Fury at HC. It was interesting then and is probably still interesting here (to some of us).
|
|