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Post by spenser on Mar 4, 2023 11:36:24 GMT -5
If you don’t see a double standard, you don’t understand how he was treated. If he was nearly as bad as Nelson, he wouldn’t have gotten a Year 4 - let alone a Year 5. Coach 1 5 years complete 1 year remaining on contract (~$300K) AD: Pine President: Burroughs Coach 2 4 years complete (including COVID year) 2 years remaining on contract (~$700K) AD: Hughes President: Rougeau Assuming the contract terms above are correct, can you please be very clear on what the double standard is? I see two different situations with different stakeholders involved. Nelson is a worse coach by a long shot because of the factors that I mentioned in a prior post. He should be gone.
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Post by saderfan2020 on Mar 4, 2023 11:36:50 GMT -5
It is now spring break. Most team members are off campus. If we "pull the trigger" next week, how would the team be informed? Zoom meeting? Need to wait until the week of March 13 when they are back on campus? They had a 3 day window (Wed, Thur, Fri of this week) to get this done and missed it. Speaking from only my perspective, the basketball team did not have a spring break. I doubt that still is the case, which is truly unbelievable in terms of how bad this has been F’d up. Can 100% confirm that the team is allowed to leave for spring break
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2023 11:41:41 GMT -5
Coach 1 5 years complete 1 year remaining on contract (~$300K) AD: Pine President: Burroughs Coach 2 4 years complete (including COVID year) 2 years remaining on contract (~$700K) AD: Hughes President: Rougeau Assuming the contract terms above are correct, can you please be very clear on what the double standard is? I see two different situations with different stakeholders involved. Nelson is a worse coach by a long shot because of the factors that I mentioned in a prior post. He should be gone. I agree and I’m not arguing with that. Milan should have also been gone after 5 years of ~.450 basketball. Pine handling the firing very poorly has everything to do with him being a DB and nothing to do with Nelson.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 4, 2023 11:52:22 GMT -5
I really hope we didn’t commit ourselves to another $350K to Nelson because of Covid at a time when he had done nothing to show he was going to be a good coach for us. If so, Blossom and anyone who signed off are fools. Worst case, you give him a nominal extension with a $50K school buyout. The existence of this extra year is not confirmed but, if it happened, that’s terrible.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 4, 2023 12:18:19 GMT -5
According to my conservative estimates, there are about 36,000 living Holy Cross alum.
If every living alum were willing to donate just $20 to the cause, we would have the funds to cover the launch of Brett Nelson at the assumed cost of $700,000.
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Post by dharry13 on Mar 4, 2023 12:21:06 GMT -5
I’ll donate 40 to cover someone else.
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Post by cmo on Mar 4, 2023 12:25:54 GMT -5
Make him an offer he can’t refuse.
You can take our buyout or take your full salary, but we’re reassigning you to head usher.
Could help full the hart with people who want to go and heckle BN.
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Post by Tom on Mar 4, 2023 13:20:04 GMT -5
It is now spring break. Most team members are off campus. If we "pull the trigger" next week, how would the team be informed? Zoom meeting? Need to wait until the week of March 13 when they are back on campus? They had a 3 day window (Wed, Thur, Fri of this week) to get this done and missed it. Speaking from only my perspective, the basketball team did not have a spring break. I doubt that still is the case, which is truly unbelievable in terms of how bad this has been F’d up. One big difference between then and now is, at least your senior year, the season wasn't over before spring break
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Post by Tom on Mar 4, 2023 13:37:36 GMT -5
It is now spring break. Most team members are off campus. If we "pull the trigger" next week, how would the team be informed? Zoom meeting? Need to wait until the week of March 13 when they are back on campus? They had a 3 day window (Wed, Thur, Fri of this week) to get this done and missed it. Kind of off topic, but was Octave on campus Wed thru Fri? IF he was in some sort of concussion protocol and not in class, why would he hang around Worcester?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 4, 2023 14:06:01 GMT -5
It is now spring break. Most team members are off campus. If we "pull the trigger" next week, how would the team be informed? Zoom meeting? Need to wait until the week of March 13 when they are back on campus? They had a 3 day window (Wed, Thur, Fri of this week) to get this done and missed it. Kind of off topic, but was Octave on campus Wed thru Fri? IF he was in some sort of concussion protocol and not in class, why would he hang around Worcester? May not be able to fly home to CA with the concussion.
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 4, 2023 15:36:10 GMT -5
If you don’t see a double standard, you don’t understand how he was treated. If he was nearly as bad as Nelson, he wouldn’t have gotten a Year 4 - let alone a Year 5. Coach 1 5 years complete 1 year remaining on contract (~$300K) AD: Pine President: Burroughs Coach 2 4 years complete (including COVID year) 2 years remaining on contract (~$700K) AD: Hughes President: Rougeau Assuming the contract terms above are correct, can you please be very clear on what the double standard is? I see two different situations with different stakeholders involved. Coach 1 Winning PL record Worst Years: 2013 (significant injuries leading to a very inexperienced team playing major minutes) and 2015 (Beat a Top 25 team, lost the reigning PL ROY to injury and still was only 2 games away from the three seed) Nevertheless gets bad treatment - pretty much from Day 1 Coach 2 4 years complete Best Years: A losing PL record, bounced in the play-in round Still has not coached in a PL quarterfinal game Is not subject to nearly as much criticism as Milan was If we were as bad as the team is now, the school would have found a way to buy out Milan earlier than March 2015.
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Post by Xmassader on Mar 4, 2023 16:13:50 GMT -5
I dunno.....not really a "PL guy" given his background, never a head coach before etc... just sayin'...I know it's early in his regime, but the early results have to be seen as troubling. Not rooting against the kid...any thoughts on what he should do, focus on etc. moving forward? Good question from hc87 in 2019. Seems as if we’ve had our answer for awhile.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 4, 2023 16:32:16 GMT -5
Could it just be that the administration has determined basketball isn't a priority anymore? Then we're damn lucky football made such a turnaround otherwise we'd be D3 rather than just playing a few basketball games against some of those schools.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 4, 2023 16:50:59 GMT -5
Watched the Fordham vs Duquesne MBB game this afternoon. Electric atmosphere in Rose Hill. Dramatic turnaround in the last two years. After being in the pits for the last two decades, Coach Urgo has it going on…. the correct trajectory. Guess it was not facilities holding them back, but some really poor hiring decisions for the Head Coach.
Of note, Urgo’s dad is a Fordham Alum, so he had insight and a deep emotional interest in the program.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 4, 2023 17:49:14 GMT -5
Marcus Blossom, on his arrival, explicitly stated that he considered men's basketball to be THE #1 sport at HC, with football being #1a. Marcus was a basketball guy, anyway. --------------------------------------------------------- From the Title IX reports for 2003-2004, ranked total spending on men's basketball, Patriot League.
Holy Cross $1,264,000 American 1,251,000 Lafayette 938,000 Colgate 869,000 Bucknell 839,000 Lehigh 680,000 No data for USMA and USNA. Boston University and Loyola were not members. Both these schools spent about 25 percent lass than Holy Cross.
The big differences between the member schools in 2003-04 mostly reflects how quickly each school ramped up the return of scollies. Basketball scollies were re-introduced with the freshman class entering in the fall of 1998. 2003-04 would be HC's sixth year with scollies.
By 2008-2009, HC's spending ($1,549,000) was second, behind AU ($1,627,000) Bucknell ($1,481,000) was third,, Lafayette ($1,300,000) had risen to fourth. RW leaves in June 2009, his record in the 2007-08 and 2008-09 seasons was 33-28.
HC women's basketball is still ranked #1 in PL spending in 2008-09. HC spent about $100,000 more than AU, and about $400,000 more than Bucknell.
If you care to place an * on RW's record of success because HC had a significant scollie advantage for most of his tenure, then the last truly successful HC men's hoops coach was GB, and he left 30 years ago.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2023 18:26:13 GMT -5
Coach 1 5 years complete 1 year remaining on contract (~$300K) AD: Pine President: Burroughs Coach 2 4 years complete (including COVID year) 2 years remaining on contract (~$700K) AD: Hughes President: Rougeau Assuming the contract terms above are correct, can you please be very clear on what the double standard is? I see two different situations with different stakeholders involved. Coach 1 Winning PL record Worst Years: 2013 (significant injuries leading to a very inexperienced team playing major minutes) and 2015 (Beat a Top 25 team, lost the reigning PL ROY to injury and still was only 2 games away from the three seed) 1 Nevertheless gets bad treatment - pretty much from Day 1Coach 2 4 years complete Best Years: A losing PL record, bounced in the play-in round Still has not coached in a PL quarterfinal game Is not subject to nearly as much criticism as Milan wasIf we were as bad as the team is now, the school would have found a way to buy out Milan earlier than March 2015. Are you totally delusional, or just partially? You literally posted this on Page THIRTY EIGHT of the “Is Nelson Ovah His Head?” thread that was started approx. TEN GAMES into his FIRST SEASON.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 4, 2023 18:36:01 GMT -5
Watched the Fordham vs Duquesne MBB game this afternoon. Electric atmosphere in Rose Hill. Dramatic turnaround in the last two years. After being in the pits for the last two decades, Coach Urgo has it going on…. the correct trajectory. Guess it was not facilities holding them back, but some really poor hiring decisions for the Head Coach. Of note, Urgo’s dad is a Fordham Alum, so he had insight and a deep emotional interest in the program. Great for the Rams. There is a small but very loyal group of people in the Bronx who bleed maroon and have been suffering for a very long time (much longer than us).
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 4, 2023 18:51:11 GMT -5
As I have said here I am a wild eyed optimist. I think there is little question that BN should be fired.
I do not know what is taking so long, but suspect given the way Milan Brown was unceremoniously shown the door and a new AD with a different style than either of the last 2 ADs, perhaps ADKH said to HCBN that he'd make an evaluation after the season and lived up to his word and did not grease the skids, so to say, as much Pine did before ditching Milan. So a delay of a week or 10 days is not shocking or (honestly) damaging in this case since most of the coaches we'd be interested in are still actually ... coaching. So I can be a bit more patient.
All the talk about Nelson's contract and a buyout at $350,000 -$700,000 got me looking to see if I could verify HCBN's salary. That started with a timeline.
Nate Pine resigned in December 2018 Marcus Blossom was named AD in May 2019 and officially took over on July 1, 2019 Brett Nelson was announced as BB Coach on July 3, 2019 (Press Conference July 9, 2019)
I'm sure Pakachoag Phreek will correct me if I am wrong ...but I looked at HC's FY 2020 IRS 990 Filing which covers July 1, 2019 - June 30, 2020.
Based on timing, Blossom should have received his full salary in the the 2020 fiscal year and Nelson should have received at least 90% of his salary.
As many of you know, a non-profit's 990 must list the organizations highest paid employees. Holy Cross includes a good number of them every year. In the FY 2020 filing (the last one which as near as I can tell is publicly available) neither Brett Nelson nor Marcus Blossom appear on that list. The lowest paid employee on the FY2020 filing is Marisa Gregg, who at the time was the interim VP of Communications. She made $151,287.plus $16,122 in other compensation.
Bill Carmody made the list in FY2020 with $268,172 in reportable compensation and $42,228 in other compensation.
If I read the requirements correctly, the college must report the top 20 "Key Employees." I do not know what the definition of a key employee is, but have to believe that at least FADMB qualifies and in virtually every other 990 from the college I've seen, both the AD and the basketball coach were on the list.
So, my conclusion is that even if HCBN is not considered a "Key Employee" by the IRS, if he made more than $300,000 in total in FY2020 he would have been on this list. And since there are only 2 people on the list who make less than $200,000 per year in "Reportable" and "Other Income" either someone missed big time or HCBN does not make as much as has been speculated.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 4, 2023 18:51:57 GMT -5
Coach 1 Winning PL record Worst Years: 2013 (significant injuries leading to a very inexperienced team playing major minutes) and 2015 (Beat a Top 25 team, lost the reigning PL ROY to injury and still was only 2 games away from the three seed) 1 Nevertheless gets bad treatment - pretty much from Day 1Coach 2 4 years complete Best Years: A losing PL record, bounced in the play-in round Still has not coached in a PL quarterfinal game Is not subject to nearly as much criticism as Milan wasIf we were as bad as the team is now, the school would have found a way to buy out Milan earlier than March 2015. Are you totally delusional, or just partially? You literally posted this on Page THIRTY EIGHT of the “Is Nelson Ovah His Head?” thread that was started approx. TEN GAMES into his FIRST SEASON. Yes, TEN GAMES into his FIRST SEASON it was abundantly clear that Brett Nelson did not have what it takes to be an effective head basketball coach
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Post by Ignutz on Mar 4, 2023 19:39:50 GMT -5
According to my conservative estimates, there are about 36,000 living Holy Cross alum. If every living alum were willing to donate just $20 to the cause, we would have the funds to cover the launch of Brett Nelson at the assumed cost of $700,000. Put me down for a C-note.
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Post by sader81 on Mar 4, 2023 19:41:57 GMT -5
It is interesting to go back and read page 1 of this thread, from November 2019 (which is pre COVID!). I am reminded that CBN did very little different over the past three years in terms of offensive and defensive strategy, which was probably his biggest flaw. When your team isn’t winning, you need to experiment, try new things and even get out of your comfort zone.
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Post by hc87 on Mar 4, 2023 22:53:33 GMT -5
He blows...has no feel for being a head coach and has the personality of an eggplant...HC hoop is going nowhere with him at the helm.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 5, 2023 6:06:22 GMT -5
Day Five.
Still got Brett, babe. Still got Brett, babe. Still got Brett,babe . . .
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Post by hcpride on Mar 5, 2023 6:28:04 GMT -5
He blows...has no feel for being a head coach and has the personality of an eggplant...HC hoop is going nowhere with him at the helm. I think some of us (myself included) thought his relative youth and stellar college playing career would make him a good recruiter. We were wrong. I think he does not have the personality …and recruiting/retention is the name of the game and a HUGE struggle for HC men’s hoops at this point. There’s gotta be an optimistic and engaging up-and-comer out there who can land/retain better players and make the whole experience more enjoyable for the team.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 5, 2023 6:48:52 GMT -5
Are we all just pissing into the wind?
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