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Post by joe on Feb 19, 2017 20:44:47 GMT -5
All I hear is a lot of BS about how some half assed minor league hockey team is somehow standing in the way of a Division 1 hockey team from joining a premier league, which to me sounds like a bunch of horse crap. If it's true and HC really wanted HE and can't figure out a way to make it work then HC is a joke. But frankly this is probably not really what's going on and judging from the purely speculative talk on this board none of us really know anything about anything. It would behoove HC to make a statement about this at some like. They should recognize there are alumni out there who actually still care. Being an HC fan is really getting old.
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Post by deep Purple on Feb 19, 2017 21:59:46 GMT -5
Word I heard is HC has been given a deadline of a week after the Natonal Title game to decide to join HE but must play their games at the DCU! Three other teams have been reached out to gauge their interest. One that is from NY and towards the western part. The only western NY school that would make any sense is RIT. The only other schools I can think HE would have any interest in are St. Lawrence and RPI. If it's true that the city/DCU is freezing out HC in order to yield to the Railers owner, it's very shortsighted and will be a major long term blunder.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 20, 2017 7:03:01 GMT -5
Word I heard is HC has been given a deadline of a week after the Natonal Title game to decide to join HE but must play their games at the DCU! Three other teams have been reached out to gauge their interest. One that is from NY and towards the western part. The only western NY school that would make any sense is RIT. The only other schools I can think HE would have any interest in are St. Lawrence and RPI. If it's true that the city/DCU is freezing out HC in order to yield to the Railers owner, it's very shortsighted and will be a major long term blunder. Here are four upstate NY schools, rink capacity / average attendance 2015-16 RIT 4200 / 3400 RPI 5200 / 3100 St. Lawrence 3000 / 1800 Clarkson 3000 / 2600 RPI is a lot closer than Orono for most of HE. ____________________________________________ I daresay that most of the residents of Worcester would disagree with your assessment about it being a blunder. The owner of the Railers is building two community-oriented rinks at no cost to the taxpayer.. What would taxpayers think if the city told the Railer's owner, 'go build your rinks somewhere else'. ___________________________________________ As Joe notes, there is a lot of speculation. Nobody has said that HC actually received an official invite, and nobody has said that HC has actually engaged in contract discussions with the city on how much the city would charge HC for using the DCU as a home rink. For HC to accept an invite to join HE, I am 99% certain that the BoT would have to approve such, given the significant cost implications. Fenwick doesn't leak as much as 'the swamp', but nobody has indicated that HE membership was or is being discussed in Fenwick. And given the supposed timeline for a decision by HC, someone would have heard something. So much of this thread seems to be a concoction of rumor and hearsay. ----And if there was no official invite, HC is under no obligation to issue a statement.
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Post by sarasota on Feb 20, 2017 9:21:34 GMT -5
No leaks from TPTB? That's an understatement. Remember, their model is the Vatican.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 20, 2017 9:37:27 GMT -5
judging from the purely speculative talk on this board none of us really know anything about anything. Quite a put down of all on the board...perhaps a bit too "universal" a judgement?
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Post by joe on Feb 20, 2017 9:44:05 GMT -5
RGS I'm referring to comments posted on this board on this topic. PP makes sense and I agree. I've been following this thread for a while and it's all heresay, no fact. If HC/HE is a real discussion and HC is being silent they are idiots, and I still have enough faith left to doubt that.
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 20, 2017 9:49:09 GMT -5
RGS I'm referring to comments posted on this board on this topic. It's all heresay, no fact. Joe, I understand what you intended (quoting your statement), but the way you expressed it was what I was having some fun with. I am sorry if you were offended. I have to agree that most of this thread is speculative and have read few facts here. What is being posted seems to be from devoted HC hockey fans, so they need some place for catharsis.
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Post by joe on Feb 20, 2017 10:25:27 GMT -5
RGS I completely get it. You're a good man!
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Post by zambonihomie13 on Feb 20, 2017 12:02:23 GMT -5
The only western NY school that would make any sense is RIT. The only other schools I can think HE would have any interest in are St. Lawrence and RPI. If it's true that the city/DCU is freezing out HC in order to yield to the Railers owner, it's very shortsighted and will be a major long term blunder. Here are four upstate NY schools, rink capacity / average attendance 2015-16 RIT 4200 / 3400 RPI 5200 / 3100 St. Lawrence 3000 / 1800 Clarkson 3000 / 2600 RPI is a lot closer than Orono for most of HE. ____________________________________________ I daresay that most of the residents of Worcester would disagree with your assessment about it being a blunder. The owner of the Railers is building two community-oriented rinks at no cost to the taxpayer.. What would taxpayers think if the city told the Railer's owner, 'go build your rinks somewhere else'. ___________________________________________ As Joe notes, there is a lot of speculation. Nobody has said that HC actually received an official invite, and nobody has said that HC has actually engaged in contract discussions with the city on how much the city would charge HC for using the DCU as a home rink. For HC to accept an invite to join HE, I am 99% certain that the BoT would have to approve such, given the significant cost implications. Fenwick doesn't leak as much as 'the swamp', but nobody has indicated that HE membership was or is being discussed in Fenwick. And given the supposed timeline for a decision by HC, someone would have heard something. So much of this thread seems to be a concoction of rumor and hearsay. ----And if there was no official invite, HC is under no obligation to issue a statement. While this is all probably rumor and hearsay, lets hope that if there is an invite extended to an upstate NY school that it is not RIT. Not only would this mean that a spot in ECAC (which is a great conference, without a rink capacity minimum, and cheaper than HE) would not become available, but also the AHA would be without one of its premier members, weakening an already weak league. Since 2007, the AHA tournament has been hosted by RIT.
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Post by Chu Chu on Feb 20, 2017 12:35:40 GMT -5
Wouldn't having the Railers and Holy cross in HE both be possible? Why does one preclude the other? Seems to me like it would moderate the rink costs and building use expenses. More hockey might actually stimulate more interest!
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Post by Tom on Feb 20, 2017 13:26:26 GMT -5
Wouldn't having the Railers and Holy cross in HE both be possible? Why does one preclude the other? Seems to me like it would moderate the rink costs and building use expenses. More hockey might actually stimulate more interest! For the city and the building, absolutely. The greater the building utilization, the better. '' Apparently, the owner of the Railers sees HE as a competitor. Would the typical hockey fan catch a day/night doubleheader on a Saturday? It has been reported here that the Railers owner has some sort of preferred tenant contract with the building. Speculation has it anywhere from first pick of dates and times to a right of refusal on any other ice show. If the Railers' owner doesn't want to talk to HC, and outward signs indicate that Worcester doesn't want to upset the apple cart and intervene, there might not be too much HC can do
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 20, 2017 15:52:50 GMT -5
As I understand HE's criterion, HE wants its members to play at an on-campus rink. This criterion was waived for UConn. IIRC, the waiver was initially temporary while UConn expanded its on-campus rink, then extended indefinitely. (And because the XL Center needs to be completely rebuilt or replaced, UConn is back to expanding its on-campus rink.) A similar waiver would have to be extended to HC, and without any commitment by HC to ever do anything about the Hart rink. IMO, the criterion exists primarily for scheduling purposes. If the institution owns the rink, then there are few constraints when it comes to scheduling. If it doesn't, well..... The Railers plan a 36 game regular season home schedule; that's two games per week over 18 weeks, starting mid-October. Dollars to donuts, half the Railers scheduled home games will be on a weekend, and that's where the scheduling rub comes in. Looking at PC's home HE schedule, PC certainly ties to schedule those games on a Friday-Saturday night, and for those teams like Maine / Vermont, the H and H games are Friday and Saturday nights. And there's the HE playoff, where all but the finals are played at the higher ranked team's home ice. What if HC couldn't get home ice because there's a Railers game scheduled, or there's some other event at the DCU? Certainly, UConn and the XL Center have been able to work out scheduling, and the XL Center is probably happy to do so because UConn M/W hoops bring in so much revenue for the 20 games they play there. ____________________________ In looking up the Railers schedule, I found this recent article in the Worcester Business Journal. www.wbjournal.com/article/20170213/NEWS01/170219993and this article in Masslive from several days ago. www.masslive.com/news/worcester/index.ssf/2017/02/in_addition_to_restaurants_and.html
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Post by Chu Chu on Feb 20, 2017 20:04:38 GMT -5
Sounds pretty glum.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 20, 2017 20:32:11 GMT -5
Getting the dates to work should not be a big issue if everyone wants it to work. There are many, many good open dates after working up the schedule for an ECHL team. And that conflict will likely only exist for a couple of years. Having no inside info, I suspect any holdup is around things other than dates (like money).
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Post by HC92 on Feb 20, 2017 20:46:47 GMT -5
Found this from a few months ago: Just pulled up a random ECHL schedule (Adirondack Thunder). Their arena has 27 Friday and Saturday nights from October through March when there is no home game for the ECHL team. Pretty sure we could work with that.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 21, 2017 7:12:03 GMT -5
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Post by hcgrad94 on Feb 21, 2017 8:13:35 GMT -5
Getting the dates to work should not be a big issue if everyone wants it to work. There are many, many good open dates after working up the schedule for an ECHL team. And that conflict will likely only exist for a couple of years. Having no inside info, I suspect any holdup is around things other than dates (like money). Let me break it down. Railers and DCU signed a lease last year that gives Railers control of all weekend home dates during season. Clearly a big mistake by DCU, but they signed it before HE discussion had heated up. Railers owner doesn't want HE so, by terms of lease, he can essentially freeze us out even though he will probably only use half of them. That is the reality. Clearly HC is working channels to get access to the unused dates, but a lease is a lease, and if he wants to freeze us out he can do it.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 21, 2017 8:40:51 GMT -5
Getting the dates to work should not be a big issue if everyone wants it to work. There are many, many good open dates after working up the schedule for an ECHL team. And that conflict will likely only exist for a couple of years. Having no inside info, I suspect any holdup is around things other than dates (like money). Let me break it down. Railers and DCU signed a lease last year that gives Railers control of all weekend home dates during season. Clearly a big mistake by DCU, but they signed it before HE discussion had heated up. Railers owner doesn't want HE so, by terms of lease, he can essentially freeze us out even though he will probably only use half of them. That is the reality. Clearly HC is working channels to get access to the unused dates, but a lease is a lease, and if he wants to freeze us out he can do it. So in essence, 1.) Over the first several years, the Railers owner doesn't want competition (attendance) until he can develop a fan base. There are numerous posters who claim Worcester hockey fans would prefer to watch HE rather than the Railers. If that's true, then he has good reason to keep HC out. 2.) If Railers attendance is poor, and the Railers fold, then that provides a potential opening for HC several years from now. 3.) If Railer's attendance is good, and a solid Railers fan base established (of if the team moves to a higher league), the owner might relent and allow HC to play several years from now.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 21, 2017 10:02:49 GMT -5
Getting the dates to work should not be a big issue if everyone wants it to work. There are many, many good open dates after working up the schedule for an ECHL team. And that conflict will likely only exist for a couple of years. Having no inside info, I suspect any holdup is around things other than dates (like money). Let me break it down. Railers and DCU signed a lease last year that gives Railers control of all weekend home dates during season. Clearly a big mistake by DCU, but they signed it before HE discussion had heated up. Railers owner doesn't want HE so, by terms of lease, he can essentially freeze us out even though he will probably only use half of them. That is the reality. Clearly HC is working channels to get access to the unused dates, but a lease is a lease, and if he wants to freeze us out he can do it. Good info. Thanks. Seems like an awful idea to give a tenant control over all dates indefinitely but I suspect the Railers had more leverage in the negotiation. Seems like they should have all dates open until their schedule is set. The 2016-17 ECHL schedule was announced on or about April 28. The 2016-17 UConn hockey schedule was released on or about June 30.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 21, 2017 10:55:53 GMT -5
curious that the railers promotional video here on their site includes shots of the luth athletic complex construction. their opening night is set for oct 14th railershc.com/
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Post by CHC8485 on Feb 21, 2017 11:30:36 GMT -5
Don't think that's the Luth. Pretty sure it's either one the rinks he's building or one of the other new buildings going up downtown.
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Post by Chu Chu on Feb 21, 2017 11:45:16 GMT -5
I wonder if we could negotiate some kind of compromise with HE, whereby we join the league and start with our home rink, with the understanding that we will do what it takes to play in a bigger facility eventually. Also, I wonder if we could find another arena to use in the metropolitan Boston area, in which to play a few big games, while we do this.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 21, 2017 12:43:03 GMT -5
I wonder if we could negotiate some kind of compromise with HE, whereby we join the league and start with our home rink, with the understanding that we will do what it takes to play in a bigger facility eventually. Also, I wonder if we could find another arena to use in the metropolitan Boston area, in which to play a few big games, while we do this. Not a bad idea but I don't see any way HE lets us or anyone else in without firm commitments to play in an acceptable facility on a date certain. Really wish I was rich. I'd plunk down my $50M and we'd be playing at HC92 Rink at the Luth Athletic Complex.
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Post by bigfan on Feb 21, 2017 13:09:43 GMT -5
Has there been any correspondence from ADNP stating if there is still a chance or is this dead?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 21, 2017 13:33:19 GMT -5
Don't think that's the Luth. Pretty sure it's either one the rinks he's building or one of the other new buildings going up downtown. The building being constructed in the promotional video is the community skating center (two rinks) being built by the Railers owner. Looking at progress, it should open this fall. There is a still image in one of the articles I linked to, supra. The community rink site, at one point, was looked at by HC as a possible location for a new indoor track (that was to be funded and used by several Worcester institutions). From scuttlebutt, HC has apparently ruled out putting a bubble over the existing track / field hockey field. Another option might be the OFH, because the plans are to close the road to the north, and push out the north wall of the OFH. My belief is they would not push out the north wall to gain another ten feet of building width. A third option supposedly is the bubble in Auburn which went belly-up.
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