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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 11, 2021 5:01:34 GMT -5
Expectations wise, i do expect dramatic improvement this year. But, I don't want to be pinned down to a specific number of wins, or where they finish in the standings (I know that drives my friend sader1970 crazy ). What if I insist they have to finish in the top 3 in the PL, and then they finish 4th with a record of 13-5. Should I demand for Coach Nelson's dismissal? In general, I think if a coach is the right one the wins will take care of themselves in time. Having said that, I think this year will be very telling for a few reasons: 1. We should have a better idea of the x and o capabilities; with a roster full of his guys the staff should be able to be able to make better use of their strategies. 2. We should be able to make initial evaluations of player improvements under the staff. 3. We should be in a better position to evaluate the recruiting. I know most think the recruiting has been superior to the prior coach, but imho all we REALLY know at this point is the players in the program are much better suited to play in the style the coach wants to play. I am, though, optimistic in this area. Should be a most interesting season.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 11, 2021 6:39:17 GMT -5
Let it be known. NAD has declared 13-5 or better in the PL to be the mark of a successful season. I like it. Aim high.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 11, 2021 9:07:34 GMT -5
Let me repeat, again, that I want this team to succeed despite my feelings about how things have been handled the last couple of years. I find it incredible that so many players have transferred out of HC or quit the team and have that just be a coincidence/Coach Carmody/transfer portal. When you are a head coach, new or experienced, what happens on and to the team is on you (insert NAD's "you, you, you . . . . . ON YOU!" here). Whatever the past, nothing is the fault of the current players.
There's one thing if you want a coach like you find in the P5 who doesn't care about how things are done as long as they win but, so far, it appears to me that despite all the player turnover (with an increase in talent, allegedly), we've had arguably the worst back to back seasons in the school's history.
Right now, it looks like we may have a Tommy Amaker who may be a top recruiter but can't game coach seeing as how Milan and Bill both beat him with less talent.
I am not sure what results will cause me to be issuing the torches and pitchforks because it all depends on the schedule. Believe it's been posted we'll be playing an ACC team and an A-10 team but also have 2 D-2 teams. So, we lose those first two but hopefully win the D-2s (nothing's a given anymore, we've proven we can lose to anyone). At minimum, we need to be challenging for the PL championship, not finishing 4th, 5th or lower. Sorry, no more excuses that will satisfy me.
Just one man's opinion.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 11, 2021 9:27:06 GMT -5
...and a strong opinion it is. Sadly, losing a game to a non-Division 1 team is nothing new for HC. Even RW managed to do that as did MB (IIRC). It is not acceptable. That should be a reminder to this team that it can happen and to not take anyone for granted. However, to look ahead and predict the possibility of two losses seems a bit too pessimistic. (Thanks to long-suffering for pointing out my error. It is now corrected.) I have no doubt that we have a more talented group with which to start the season than would have been the case without the major "turnover" of the last two years. We will be building on the two nice wins with which we ended last year (even missing one of our better players). I am looking forward to the season and anticipate that things will be looking up. What will happen if they do not is something to discuss down the road IF that happens.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 11, 2021 9:30:21 GMT -5
From this point forward, Nelson owns everything that happens. Transfers, recruits, wins and losses. All of it. Definitely need to start winning soon. We shall see. Assuming Nelson got a standard 5 year contract, he has three seasons left. Time is ticking.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 11, 2021 9:43:09 GMT -5
Players are leaving. It's their own decision to make, their dollars to spend or give up, their lives to live. They're making the best decision for them, right or wrong, not my business. But as a fan and alum, I take it a bit personally. You don't want to be here? Fantastic. Get out. The people that do want to be here will stay here.
Rebuilding by taking a few steps forward and a few steps back will get us nowhere quickly. However, with the record of the team of the last now MANY years, it's clear that no one on the team is irreplaceable.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 11, 2021 10:09:15 GMT -5
Dave--great analysis!
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 11, 2021 10:33:24 GMT -5
From this point forward, Nelson owns everything that happens. Transfers, recruits, wins and losses. All of it. Definitely need to start winning soon. We shall see. Assuming Nelson got a standard 5 year contract, he has three seasons left. Time is ticking. You mean we won't be able to blame DJ Hart for every loss next year?
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Post by dadominate on Jun 11, 2021 10:47:48 GMT -5
next year is the time to start winning. period. end of discussion.
it's rare that a coach at our level has a roster consisting exclusively of scholarship players that he recruited out of high school as well as a few experienced transfers in year 3 of his contract. as noted in this thread, even p5 schools don't often have a complete house cleaning like we have witnessed at hc.
fortunately, i think nelson has assembled the talent to start winning and competing for the league title. i will be disappointed in anything less than a top 3 finish in the league and AT LEAST a pl tournament semi-final appearance. this is not too much to expect in the patriot league. no more excuses, let's win!
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Post by timholycross on Jun 11, 2021 11:10:25 GMT -5
From this point forward, Nelson owns everything that happens. Transfers, recruits, wins and losses. All of it. Definitely need to start winning soon. We shall see. Assuming Nelson got a standard 5 year contract, he has three seasons left. Time is ticking. Nothing wrong w/saying that!
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 11, 2021 11:29:31 GMT -5
George Blaney was not able to turn the program around until year 3. He certainly did not have the challenges, especially in year 2 that Brett Nelson encountered.
With the team currently on campus for summer training, which did not occur last year with 8 new players, I am optimistic that we will see dramatic improvement on the court and on the scoreboard.
“Always Look on the Bright Side of Life” song by Monty Python.
Some things in life are bad They can really make you mad Other things just make you swear and curse When you're chewing on life's gristle Don't grumble, give a whistle And this'll help things turn out for the best And Always look on the bright side of life Always look on the light side of life If life seems jolly rotten There's something you've forgotten And that's to laugh and smile and dance and sing When you're feeling in the dumps Don't be silly chumps Just purse your lips and whistle, that's the thing And Always look on the bright side of life (Come on) Always look on the right side of life For life is quite absurd And death's the final word You must always face the curtain with a bow Forget about your sin Give the audience a grin Enjoy it, it's your last chance anyhow
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 11, 2021 11:41:34 GMT -5
Bah-humbug!
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jun 11, 2021 13:10:06 GMT -5
There's one thing if you want a coach like you find in the P5 who doesn't care about how things are done as long as they win but, so far, it appears to me that despite all the player turnover (with an increase in talent, allegedly), we've had arguably the worst back to back seasons in the school's history. Right now, it looks like we may have a Tommy Amaker who may be a top recruiter but can't game coach seeing as how Milan and Bill both beat him with less talent. I A ridiculous overreaction. In 2009-10, HC was the preseason pick to win the pL and finished with a record of 9-22. That was followed up by an 8-22 record in 2010-11. Given the talent on the roster, those two seasons were exponentially worse than the last two. Nelson was 5-11 last year and had to play 1/4 of his games against a a dominant pL team that was 14-1 in the league, averaged 86 PPG, and had an average margin of victory of 19 (10 of their 14 wins were by double digits). Did you really expect roster turnover (much-needed turnover) in Year 1 to immediately turn around the W/L record in Year 2? How many teams have we seen in the top of the pL that were led by Freshmen?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 11, 2021 14:24:30 GMT -5
One thing that has me hopeful is the performance from the guys in the last few games last year. Obviously AB had a big part in that, but even so, for the first time I felt like you could definitely see what they were trying to accomplish - the constant attacks to the hoop, the driving and kicking, some ball hawking D on the perimeter by guys with some length. Really hope they can build on that right out of the gate next year. Hoping Judson Martindale can take on the AB role of volume scorer (not expecting him to fill AB's shoes as a rebounder, at least not yet).
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Post by dharry13 on Jun 11, 2021 15:48:11 GMT -5
Tommy Amaker is really your example? Seriously?
He's gone to the post season in 8 of his last 10 seasons with Harvard. Twice reaching the round of 32. NCAA 4 years in a row. Amaker can coach. I hope that's what we have in Nelson.
That said, yes he has to win. His roster is all "His" guys. If you can't win with your own guys you'll be looking for a job soon.
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Post by efg72 on Jun 11, 2021 16:28:24 GMT -5
One thing that has me hopeful is the performance from the guys in the last few games last year. Obviously AB had a big part in that, but even so, for the first time I felt like you could definitely see what they were trying to accomplish - the constant attacks to the hoop, the driving and kicking, some ball hawking D on the perimeter by guys with some length. Really hope they can build on that right out of the gate next year. Hoping Judson Martindale can take on the AB role of volume scorer (not expecting him to fill AB's shoes as a rebounder, at least not yet). The problem is replacing Austin’s energy and tenacity. I think Humphrey can be that player, even though he suffered, like Faw, in getting some tough touch calls from the zebras. But I do think the talent is good enough to compete and win. A crazy idea, let Nelson do his thing and for now be the public face, but have RJ make the in-game decisions. If that happens NAD’s conference win total might be low
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Post by possum on Jun 11, 2021 16:52:36 GMT -5
Did anyone actually think we were going to be a winning program the last two years. It seems a little early to put Nelson on the hot seat. As someone mentioned Blaney had two bad years with better talent than Nelson inherited then Potter and Vicens showed up and all of a sudden he's a genius. Funny how that happens when you get good players. I think Nelson has upgraded the talent level significantly now it time to prove it on the floor. If there's not marked improvement in the win loss column this year then it's time to start questioning if Nelson's the right guy. Don't see why anyone would think at this point that RJ is more qualified than Nelson to be calling the shots.
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Post by efg72 on Jun 11, 2021 17:14:34 GMT -5
Comparisons are insane
George was a head coach, rebuilt from an existing roster, and unlike the current occupant was a proven coach.
I wish nelson well because that means the program will return to some level of success and we can watch winning basketball
However i will take the under on his reaching 100 career wins
But eternally grateful to be proven wrong if he stays at HC and beats that number
By the way he will never have the player loyalty that George continues to have from players at Dartmouth, HC, Seton Hall, URI snd UCONN.
So again the comparisons are insane and i apologize to nobody for that opinion
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Post by hceconhist on Jun 11, 2021 17:17:03 GMT -5
From this point forward, Nelson owns everything that happens. Transfers, recruits, wins and losses. All of it. Definitely need to start winning soon. We shall see. Assuming Nelson got a standard 5 year contract, he has three seasons left. Time is ticking. I think the contract length is a good assumption. Further to your point, I think this year is the pivotal year of his tenure. If the team shows real progress and generates real enthusiasm, he probably gets an extension. If the team fails to make meaningful achievement, 2022-2023 is his last chance.
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Post by possum on Jun 11, 2021 18:00:18 GMT -5
Listen I like George Blaney a great guy who did a great job here but he had a losing record when he got the job and was in no way a proven coach. His first year he had two 1,000 point in 3 year players and a 1st team high school All American freshman. The team was awful and he completely lost control of the players, his second year was terrible albeit with much less talent, then like a miracle Potter and Vicens arrived. I'd dare say that if Crossports was around at the time there would've been many posters calling for his scalp after the first two years. Blaney's predecessor at Dartmouth is a perfect example of not writing someone off too early, he had a record of 18-33 in two years at Dartmouth got another job the next year and went on to a Hall of Fame career. His name Dave Gavitt.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 11, 2021 19:14:39 GMT -5
Losses to Div.II teams can and do happen. HC was defeated in basketball by Div. II St. Anselm in the mid-60's in Worcester. HC was defeated by DivII UMass in football in the mid-60's at Fitton. No doubt there were years in the mid-70's when Div. II National Champion, Lehigh would have defeated HC in football. Solution? Let's win all our games and everyone can happily go to sleep that night with visions of...
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Post by trimster on Jun 11, 2021 20:37:37 GMT -5
The team is loaded to the gills with freshmen and sophomores. Three of the sophomores have little collegiate game time under their belt and the other four, a half season basically against three PL teams. Good times are a year away. Maybe we will be surprised.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jun 11, 2021 20:48:32 GMT -5
One thing that has me hopeful is the performance from the guys in the last few games last year. Obviously AB had a big part in that, but even so, for the first time I felt like you could definitely see what they were trying to accomplish - the constant attacks to the hoop, the driving and kicking, some ball hawking D on the perimeter by guys with some length. Really hope they can build on that right out of the gate next year. Hoping Judson Martindale can take on the AB role of volume scorer (not expecting him to fill AB's shoes as a rebounder, at least not yet). The problem is replacing Austin’s energy and tenacity. I think Humphrey can be that player, even though he suffered, like Faw, in getting some tough touch calls from the zebras. But I do think the talent is good enough to compete and win. A crazy idea, let Nelson do his thing and for now be the public face, but have RJ make the in-game decisions. If that happens NAD’s conference win total might be low That “energy and tenacity” resulted in a career overall record of 36-76 (.321), career pL record of 21-49 (.300), and average PL finish of 8.5. I am hopeful and confident that Nelson will upgrade the wing position. Re: the crazy idea, you’re right, that is a crazy idea. Brett Nelson has played and coached at the highest level of college basketball (and was also a McDonald’s All-American in HS) - this is his program and the buck stops with him in all aspects. If he can’t handle the in-game decisions he should not be the coach at HC. Period. End. I would love for RJ to be the Head Coach at HC some day (ideally after Nelson is hired away to a job upgrade after a successful run over the next 3-4 years), but the only way we are going to be successful right now is if Nelson is able to lead all aspects of the program.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jun 11, 2021 20:54:56 GMT -5
The problem is replacing Austin’s energy and tenacity. I think Humphrey can be that player, even though he suffered, like Faw, in getting some tough touch calls from the zebras. But I do think the talent is good enough to compete and win. A crazy idea, let Nelson do his thing and for now be the public face, but have RJ make the in-game decisions. If that happens NAD’s conference win total might be low That “energy and tenacity” resulted in a career overall record of 36-76 (.321), career pL record of 21-49 (.300), and average PL finish of 8.5. I am hopeful and confident that Nelson will upgrade the wing position. Re: the crazy idea, you’re right, that is a crazy idea. Brett Nelson has played and coached at the highest level of college basketball (and was also a McDonald’s All-American in HS) - this is his program and the buck stops with him in all aspects. If he can’t handle the in-game decisions he should not be the coach at HC. Period. End. I would love for RJ to be the Head Coach at HC some day (ideally after Nelson is hired away to a job upgrade after a successful run over the next 3-4 years), but the only way we are going to be successful right now is if Nelson is able to lead all aspects of the program. You cite W/L records very interestingly
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 11, 2021 21:29:11 GMT -5
Comparisons are insane George was a head coach, rebuilt from an existing roster, and unlike the current occupant was a proven coach. I wish nelson well because that means the program will return to some level of success and we can watch winning basketball However i will take the under on his reaching 100 career wins But eternally grateful to be proven wrong if he stays at HC and beats that number By the way he will never have the player loyalty that George continues to have from players at Dartmouth, HC, Seton Hall, URI snd UCONN. So again the comparisons are insane and i apologize to nobody for that opinion You forgot Stonehill (head coach 1967-69). Say three Hail Mary's.🙂
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