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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 14, 2021 11:35:31 GMT -5
I'd like to think most of us would agree Coach Nelson is taking the long term approach in building his program (as opposed to a short term approach of tailoring strategy to best fit the skills of the inherited players). It is his right....but the buck has to stop with him. To his credit, he was publicly very supportive of MF and especially AB.
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Post by Tom on Jun 14, 2021 11:57:30 GMT -5
This is just so silly. If Ronnie Perry Jr. had me and 11 of my clones for teammates (and 8 quit/transferred/were bounced from the squad) I'm pretty sure his teams would have been hard pressed to win a single game in 4 years. Absurd? Yes, as absurd as trying to blame 2 players for the W-L record while the coach gets off scot free. I'm thinking triangle and two. Double team Ronnie and have the other 3 guys play a zone. At the risk of piling on, Perry's career assist total would have been lower
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Post by Tom on Jun 14, 2021 12:12:22 GMT -5
To his credit, he was publicly very supportive of MF and especially AB. I would certainly hope so. Especially in the amateur ranks, I would expect the coach to be publicly supportive of all of the players. Even the NAD clone squad. Throw in the fact that 11 out of his initial 15 players left the team prior to graduation, he damn well better be publicly very supportive of two that chose to stay
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Post by alum on Jun 14, 2021 12:56:27 GMT -5
Actually, you’re in the camp who made up their mind that Butler was a star after watching him make 3’s on his high school highlight tape, rather than actually watching him play. The fact of the matter is that if he was as good as you say he was, he would not have participated in more losses than any player in HC basketball history. I don't think anybody has argued he was an above-average PL player. As I noted before, he was one of the better players on a pretty bad Holy Cross team (which could trick a few observers into thinking he was an above-average PL player). He was one of 5 guards named Second-Team All-Patriot League last year. I'll argue that he was an above average PL player.
Here are the conference stats. I know that his numbers are inflated because he had to be "the guy" but he did what he was asked to do.
You don't have to take my word for it. Ask the thirty coaches who showed interest and the ten who made offers
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 14, 2021 14:23:46 GMT -5
I don't think anybody has argued he was an above-average PL player. As I noted before, he was one of the better players on a pretty bad Holy Cross team (which could trick a few observers into thinking he was an above-average PL player). He was one of 5 guards named Second-Team All-Patriot League last year. I'll argue that he was an above average PL player.
Here are the conference stats. I know that his numbers are inflated because he had to be "the guy" but he did what he was asked to do.
You don't have to take my word for it. Ask the thirty coaches who showed interest and the ten who made offers
Second team all league in a ten team league is by definition above average.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 14, 2021 15:03:39 GMT -5
This is just so silly. If Ronnie Perry Jr. had me and 11 of my clones for teammates (and 8 quit/transferred/were bounced from the squad) I'm pretty sure his teams would have been hard pressed to win a single game in 4 years. Absurd? Yes, as absurd as trying to blame 2 players for the W-L record while the coach gets off scot free. I'm thinking triangle and two. Double team Ronnie and have the other 3 guys play a zone. At the risk of piling on, Perry's career assist total would have been lower I'm flattered that you would even consider not having all 5 guys guard RP Jr.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 14, 2021 15:16:47 GMT -5
I'll argue that he was an above average PL player.
Here are the conference stats. I know that his numbers are inflated because he had to be "the guy" but he did what he was asked to do.
You don't have to take my word for it. Ask the thirty coaches who showed interest and the ten who made offers
Second team all league in a ten team league is by definition above average. Yes, one could argue reasonably that he was one of the top 8 guards in the 10-team league (since three guards were on the first ALL PL Team and five on the second All PL team ) his senior year . Some probably thought he deserved to be on either the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd All Patriot League teams earlier in his career. So that is all good. And there is no doubt he was one of the two best players (IMHO) on a pretty poor team his senior year (if you consider 5-11 pretty poor). And Charlotte considers him good enough to be a contributor on their Conference USA team next year. Always struck me as an average PL-level player on a below average PL-level team who played hard. Nothing wrong with that at all.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 14, 2021 16:05:16 GMT -5
More on the Austin Butler issue---who can tell me who the last Crusader guard was who led the team with an average of 8.8 rebounds per game? Does that happen every 4 or 5 years or more often?
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 14, 2021 16:07:24 GMT -5
Well, so much for Ryan Wade in the portal.
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Post by hceconhist on Jun 14, 2021 16:56:34 GMT -5
Isn't this where ACTP says "another thread off the rails?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 14, 2021 17:38:27 GMT -5
BBC's obsession with Butler that has gone on for virtually his entire career at HC has been downright bizarre.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 14, 2021 18:48:36 GMT -5
Well, so much for Ryan Wade in the portal. I trust you are talking about the hijacking of this thread; not that Ryan pulled his name back.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 14, 2021 19:32:09 GMT -5
Yes. I didn't realize that my post was ambiguous.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 14, 2021 19:59:57 GMT -5
Second team all league in a ten team league is by definition above average. Yes, one could argue reasonably that he was one of the top 8 guards in the 10-team league (since three guards were on the first ALL PL Team and five on the second All PL team ) his senior year . Some probably thought he deserved to be on either the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd All Patriot League teams earlier in his career. So that is all good. And there is no doubt he was one of the two best players (IMHO) on a pretty poor team his senior year (if you consider 5-11 pretty poor). And Charlotte considers him good enough to be a contributor on their Conference USA team next year. Always struck me as an average PL-level player on a below average PL-level team who played hard. Nothing wrong with that at all. Well put. I'm dating myself but because he was essentially a swing man who could play guard or forward, and because he is 6'5" and because he played with intensity and because he was more sure than slick when handling the ball, I thought of "Jarrin' John" Havlicek when watching him play. Remember how Hondo dribbled the ball like a forward and looked like he might lose it but never did? AB lost it a few times but for the PL he was a legit member of the all league team.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 14, 2021 20:04:40 GMT -5
More on the Austin Butler issue---who can tell me who the last Crusader guard was who led the team with an average of 8.8 rebounds per game? Does that happen every 4 or 5 years or more often? Every four or five centuries.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 14, 2021 20:14:09 GMT -5
More on the Austin Butler issue---who can tell me who the last Crusader guard was who led the team with an average of 8.8 rebounds per game? Does that happen every 4 or 5 years or more often? Kevin Hamilton averaged 7.4 rebs his senior year
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Post by hcop33 on Jul 27, 2021 17:59:43 GMT -5
Just when I was starting to align with your thinking...you make this observation about AB. If he has to own the record for the last 2 years, then so does Coach Nelson. Can't cut one slack and not the other. We were close to forfeiting games 2 years ago, but AB suited up to play the point with a broken hand. In the last 100 years of HC basketball (as far back as Sports-Reference.com goes), there is only one 4-year player who had a worse career winning % than Butler and Faw -- James Stowers from the class of 2000. The stretch from 1996-1997 through 1999-2000 (last three of the Raynor debacle, first year of RW cleaning up the mess) was the only 4-year stretch since 1901-02 with a worse winning percentage (.294) than the stretch from 2017-18 through 2020-21 (.321). That was also the only stretch with a worse 4-year PL winning percentage (.292) than the last four years (.300).
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Post by possum on Nov 30, 2021 7:57:08 GMT -5
Unless he's been hurt it looks like Ryan's transfer to Central Michigan has not worked out well for him. For what appears to be a bad team, 1-5 picked to finish 10th in their league, Ryan has only gotten mop up minutes in blowout losses. Hard to figure how a guy who played 25-30 minutes a game for us can't get off the bench for another mid major program.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2021 8:45:58 GMT -5
Ryan received his 20-25 minutes for a very bad low major team with many player desertions. There were few to no alternatives. Central Michigan has a 1-5 record against the #22 SOS in the US, according to Kenpom
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Post by possum on Nov 30, 2021 9:47:28 GMT -5
Central Michigan was a bad team last year, 5-16 and 3-13 in conference, and is picked at the bottom of the league this year so not sure how great the talent level is there. Wade got about 27 minutes a game last year almost double what two freshmen who play the same position got. Was that a poor coaching decision or are the players we're recruiting not as good as we think. It's got to make you wonder how a guy who was an integral part of this team for two years here can't get off the bench now.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 26, 2024 22:11:21 GMT -5
Ryan Wade finishing up his career at Wisconsin-Green Bay. Can believe it was less than three years ago that he entered the portal from HC. Feels like a lot longer ago than that.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Feb 27, 2024 7:33:42 GMT -5
Ryan seems like a nice young man with a good family so I'm not going to say anything negative about him. I was disappointed when he left, though, because I thought he was really establishing a niche for himself as a defensively solid fundamentally sound player. Not a great scorer, not flashy, but the kind of player you want on your team. I wish him the best.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 27, 2024 9:27:58 GMT -5
Many different stories that one could compile about the Brett Nelson Reign of Error. Ryan's one of them.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 27, 2024 12:50:19 GMT -5
Many different stories that one could compile about the Brett Nelson Reign of Error. Ryan's one of them. Looking at Wade's post-HC record, BN got more out of Ryan than his subsequent coaches did.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 27, 2024 13:12:55 GMT -5
Many different stories that one could compile about the Brett Nelson Reign of Error. Ryan's one of them. Looking at Wade's post-HC record, BN got more out of Ryan than his subsequent coaches did. That may have been due to the fact Wade played 25+ mintues under Nelson. He hasn't played anywhere near that since HC.
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