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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 26, 2021 21:55:36 GMT -5
Since some college head coaches are part-time that brings down the number plus that just says College Lacrosse coach. Greg Cannella at UMass made 137,362.68 in 2014 and just redid his contract.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 26, 2021 22:29:24 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 27, 2021 8:46:32 GMT -5
You know, whatever Holy Cross pays any of its coaches, including men's basketball and football and the non-revenue sports, I leave to the administrators and athletic department leadership. They are much more aware of what the "going rate" of coaches salaries are than anyone here on this board and that includes the usual "experts."
That said, my last almost 15 years in the insurance industry I worked for a president who was one of the nicest guys in the world but an absolutely terrible executive who conscientiously diffused decision making so that if something failed, no one was accountable, least of all him. Executives should listen to legitimate input; make a decision; and be accountable for those decisions.
I stipulate I have no idea what a fair salary for any of our coaches might be but my theory is that while low salaries may be a contributing factor in our general lack of success, it is like the proverbial plane crash - it's never caused by one thing but a confluence of negative factors. Certainly a higher salary will generally attract better coaches but mixing apples and oranges here, we know Carmody made a significantly higher salary than Bob Chesney not just in absolute terms but relative to their sport (basketball coaches at Holy Cross always make more than football coaches). But young Chesney has proven objectively that he was a better coach than Bill in their respective sports.
Long story to say that at Holy Cross, I think it has been made very hard to isolate and hold accountable one or a few individuals for lack of athletic success and wonder like my old boss, if that is by design.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 27, 2021 10:39:45 GMT -5
Sponsoring 27 sports at the size of HC's enrollment is another contributing factor.
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Post by hceconhist on Jun 27, 2021 12:12:45 GMT -5
^No question.
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Post by hceconhist on Jun 27, 2021 12:21:12 GMT -5
You know, whatever Holy Cross pays any of its coaches, including men's basketball and football and the non-revenue sports, I leave to the administrators and athletic department leadership. They are much more aware of what the "going rate" of coaches salaries are than anyone here on this board and that includes the usual "experts." That said, my last almost 15 years in the insurance industry I worked for a president who was one of the nicest guys in the world but an absolutely terrible executive who conscientiously diffused decision making so that if something failed, no one was accountable, least of all him. Executives should listen to legitimate input; make a decision; and be accountable for those decisions. I stipulate I have no idea what a fair salary for any of our coaches might be but my theory is that while low salaries may be a contributing factor in our general lack of success, it is like the proverbial plane crash - it's never caused by one thing but a confluence of negative factors. Certainly a higher salary will generally attract better coaches but mixing apples and oranges here, we know Carmody made a significantly higher salary than Bob Chesney not just in absolute terms but relative to their sport (basketball coaches at Holy Cross always make more than football coaches). But young Chesney has proven objectively that he was a better coach than Bill in their respective sports. Long story to say that at Holy Cross, I think it has been made very hard to isolate and hold accountable one or a few individuals for lack of athletic success and wonder like my old boss, if that is by design. To your last point, I sometimes think that HC views athletics as a manufacturing company views electricity or other overhead: it is simply part of the cost of doing business. In other words, no one is going to come to HC because of its athletics, but we will lose out on quality applicants if we eliminate sports (or go D3).
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 27, 2021 13:56:21 GMT -5
I hope this will be my last post on the subject 🙏🏻🤞
I think despite the rabid support for Crusader athletics on this board, almost unanimously we agree that academics should come first.
The dreadful results especially in the “Olympic sports” (but in the last decade men’s basketball as well) would be quasi-acceptable if we saw Holy Cross rising in the ratings in surveys like USN&WR. But that’s not the case. It always bothered me the disdain that Fr. McFarland had for those surveys because, like it or not, the prestige of the school is pretty dependent on those surveys and prospective students and their parents look at them.
You can get just so far waving them off with a “we’re a special place” flip off.
When’s the last time we had a Rhode’s scholar?
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 27, 2021 16:36:03 GMT -5
Do you mean College of the Holy Cross, the small liberal arts school that is #1 in Fulbright grants received? (over 60 if I remember correctly) 38 Fulbright winners in just the last 5 years.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 27, 2021 18:32:25 GMT -5
Sponsoring 27 sports at the size of HC's enrollment is another contributing factor. And I believe we're the only non-Ivy to sponsor ALL of the following: FCS Football Men's & Women's Ice Hockey Baseball & Softball Men's & Women's Lacrosse Men's & Women's Soccer
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Post by bison137 on Jun 27, 2021 19:05:06 GMT -5
Sponsoring 27 sports at the size of HC's enrollment is another contributing factor. And I believe we're the only non-Ivy to sponsor ALL of the following: FCS Football Men's & Women's Ice Hockey Baseball & Softball Men's & Women's Lacrosse Men's & Women's Soccer That's correct. Btw, of PL schools, the two with the most sports are Holy Cross and Bucknell, both with 27 (counting indoor and outdoor T&F as separate sports, as you have done).
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 27, 2021 20:27:07 GMT -5
Sponsoring 27 sports at the size of HC's enrollment is another contributing factor. And I believe we're the only non-Ivy to sponsor ALL of the following: FCS Football Men's & Women's Ice Hockey Baseball & Softball Men's & Women's Lacrosse Men's & Women's Soccer Well, you are wrong. Merrimack sponsors all those sports and play at a higher level in Men's Hockey. Sacred Heart has those sports and sponsors sports that HC doesn't like Women's Rugby, Men's and Women's Wrestling, etc... Found another, Long Island University.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 28, 2021 5:34:43 GMT -5
Good research -- Should have remembered SHU but I definitely wouldn't have thought of LIU and Merrimack. I still forget that because of the CW Post merger that LIU has football now (and they just launched their hockey program with a win over HC of course). And I did not realize Merrimack had a baseball team. I always thought of Merrimack as a "hockey school" since it was their only D-I sport for so long but they have a strong athletic dept. across the board.
UMASS is another school that is close to having all of the above -- if they added Women's Hockey and moved football back to the CAA.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 28, 2021 8:46:23 GMT -5
And I believe we're the only non-Ivy to sponsor ALL of the following: FCS Football Men's & Women's Ice Hockey Baseball & Softball Men's & Women's Lacrosse Men's & Women's Soccer Well, you are wrong. Merrimack sponsors all those sports and play at a higher level in Men's Hockey. Sacred Heart has those sports and sponsors sports that HC doesn't like Women's Rugby, Men's and Women's Wrestling, etc... Found another, Long Island University. We’ll make some more statements about HC so you can keep busy looking for counter claims
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 28, 2021 9:06:21 GMT -5
Good research -- Should have remembered SHU but I definitely wouldn't have thought of LIU and Merrimack. I still forget that because of the CW Post merger that LIU has football now (and they just launched their hockey program with a win over HC of course). And I did not realize Merrimack had a baseball team. I always thought of Merrimack as a "hockey school" since it was their only D-I sport for so long but they have a strong athletic dept. across the board. UMASS is another school that is close to having all of the above -- if they added Women's Hockey and moved football back to the CAA. UMass being national champs in Men's hockey and not even offering Women's Hockey as the State U. of a hockey state: embarrassing. UMass floundering in FBS: embarrassing. Those two changes are warranted and one would pay for the other.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 28, 2021 9:17:57 GMT -5
Good research -- Should have remembered SHU but I definitely wouldn't have thought of LIU and Merrimack. I still forget that because of the CW Post merger that LIU has football now (and they just launched their hockey program with a win over HC of course). And I did not realize Merrimack had a baseball team. I always thought of Merrimack as a "hockey school" since it was their only D-I sport for so long but they have a strong athletic dept. across the board. UMASS is another school that is close to having all of the above -- if they added Women's Hockey and moved football back to the CAA. UMass being national champs in Men's hockey and not even offering Women's Hockey as the State U. of a hockey state: embarrassing. UMass floundering in FBS: embarrassing. Those two changes are warranted and one would pay for the other. It is crazy that UMass-Boston has both men and women's hockey but both Lowell and UMass have men's programs with no women.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 28, 2021 9:22:57 GMT -5
Good research -- Should have remembered SHU but I definitely wouldn't have thought of LIU and Merrimack. I still forget that because of the CW Post merger that LIU has football now (and they just launched their hockey program with a win over HC of course). And I did not realize Merrimack had a baseball team. I always thought of Merrimack as a "hockey school" since it was their only D-I sport for so long but they have a strong athletic dept. across the board. UMASS is another school that is close to having all of the above -- if they added Women's Hockey and moved football back to the CAA. Peter Crinella's brother was drafted out of Merrimack baseball back in 2015. merrimackathletics.com/news/2015/6/10/6_10_2015_240.aspx?path=baseball
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 28, 2021 18:43:22 GMT -5
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Post by bison137 on Jun 28, 2021 19:14:03 GMT -5
Maura threw the other day in the Olympic trials and finished 7th. She managed to compete at a high level this year despite throwing with a torn labrum, which greatly limited her practice time and number of throws in competition.. In the PL meet she threw a record 181 feet, winning by 26 feet. Also at 5-3, Maura was the smallest thrower in the NCAA field. Despite that, she made All-American all three years of her Bucknell career. Maura grew up in a small town about 40 minutes from Bucknell. She averaged 18 ppg in basketball as a junior but had to give up the sport due to ongoing knee problems.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 28, 2021 21:54:52 GMT -5
And I believe we're the only non-Ivy to sponsor ALL of the following: FCS Football Men's & Women's Ice Hockey Baseball & Softball Men's & Women's Lacrosse Men's & Women's Soccer Well, you are wrong. Merrimack sponsors all those sports and play at a higher level in Men's Hockey. Sacred Heart has those sports and sponsors sports that HC doesn't like Women's Rugby, Men's and Women's Wrestling, etc... Found another, Long Island University. Great that Merrimack now provides and sponsors a plethora of sports as noted. Unfortunately they do not have the overall on campus infrastructure to support them. Baseball plays off campus at Lawrence Area TS, Swimming practices at the Andover YMCA, Tennis plays at North Andover HS, Hammel Court has a capacity of 1,200 and Lawler Rink seats 2,549 (below Hockey East previous requirements of 4,000). Duane Stadium has a seating capacity of approximately 3,500 as a multi sports facility. Granted, they just moved to D1 recently and are now in transition. Sacred Heart has similar issues with on campus facilities.Baseball plays at Veterans Memorial Park in Bridgeport, Field Hockey plays at Yale University, Swimming practices and sponsors one meet off campus at McCann Natatorium, in Milford CT. A new Ice Hockey Rink is now being built, but is currently off campus at Webster Bank Arena. Outside the P5 and state sponsored colleges and universities, very few colleges ( especially private) have premier athletic facilities on campus, for their entire portfolio of sports programs. They may have one or two, very nice competitive venues on campus, that we hear about when someone say....”How about xxx”. But across the board, they do not have it. Especially those whose enrollment is less that 6,000. With the exception of Golf and Rowing, HC competition facilities are on campus, with upgrades on the horizon for Softball, Lacrosse,Soccer and, possibly Ice Hockey now to be studied.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 28, 2021 22:09:12 GMT -5
Crucis - get ready for the usual 3am blast from Foley saying HC's athletic facilities stink.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 28, 2021 22:28:21 GMT -5
Crucis - get ready for the usual 3am blast from Foley saying HC's athletic facilities stink. I take under consideration the source. 🥴🤣. I often wonder, it there was. a “Sister Mary Elephant” in his past, that may be causing such animosity towards HC. Oh well!
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2021 12:38:16 GMT -5
Well, you are wrong. Merrimack sponsors all those sports and play at a higher level in Men's Hockey. Sacred Heart has those sports and sponsors sports that HC doesn't like Women's Rugby, Men's and Women's Wrestling, etc... Found another, Long Island University. Great that Merrimack now provides and sponsors a plethora of sports as noted. Unfortunately they do not have the overall on campus infrastructure to support them. Baseball plays off campus at Lawrence Area TS, Swimming practices at the Andover YMCA, Tennis plays at North Andover HS, Hammel Court has a capacity of 1,200 and Lawler Rink seats 2,549 (below Hockey East previous requirements of 4,000). Duane Stadium has a seating capacity of approximately 3,500 as a multi sports facility. Granted, they just moved to D1 recently and are now in transition. Sacred Heart has similar issues with on campus facilities.Baseball plays at Veterans Memorial Park in Bridgeport, Field Hockey plays at Yale University, Swimming practices and sponsors one meet off campus at McCann Natatorium, in Milford CT. A new Ice Hockey Rink is now being built, but is currently off campus at Webster Bank Arena. Outside the P5 and state sponsored colleges and universities, very few colleges ( especially private) have premier athletic facilities on campus, for their entire portfolio of sports programs. They may have one or two, very nice competitive venues on campus, that we hear about when someone say....”How about xxx”. But across the board, they do not have it. Especially those whose enrollment is less that 6,000. With the exception of Golf and Rowing, HC competition facilities are on campus, with upgrades on the horizon for Softball, Lacrosse,Soccer and, possibly Ice Hockey now to be studied. You missed one at Merrimack, the field hockey program is basically a traveling team that goes around Massachusetts looking for fields. As D-1 field hockey needs to be played on the old astroturf type surface.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 29, 2021 12:43:13 GMT -5
I suppose it is nice that others, as they move up in D-1 and FCS, wish to follow HC's lead...as Merrimack seems to be doing. OK, HC is not the only non-Ivy "one" but is part off a very small group. What did you mean by the "only ones?"
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2021 12:45:04 GMT -5
I suppose it is nice that others, as they move up in D-1 and FCS, wish to follow HC's lead...as Merrimack seems to be doing. OK, HC is not the only "one" but is part off a very small group. What did you mean by the "only ones?" Well, look at what nycrusader said....
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 29, 2021 14:52:35 GMT -5
Merrimack Field Hockey played last season at Duane Stadium.on campus vs Wagner and Sacred Heart. Here is the schedule from the limited season. Since it was an exceptional year, they may have received a waiver to play on Field Turf instead of the traditional flat surface that NCAA teams use. When the 2021 schedule is announced, it will note, if they will be traveling road “Warriors”. 😊 merrimackathletics.com/sports/field-hockey/scheduleMerrimack with their Forbes Financial Rating, and the lack of comprehensive on campus venues, should have a realistic review about their position as a D1/FCS program. Merrimack flagship sport is Ice Hockey. Even so, Lawler Rink only seats 2,500. For a small private school, that seems the appropriate size venue for Hockey. UConn’s new Rink at a large public university, now under construction is only slightly larger. With the exception of Notre Dame and BC, the school noted below lack overall and comprehensive on campus premier facilities. I have in person surveyed all but 7 of the campuses listed. The remainder, I am familiar with their campus and physical plant. Again, some have one or two premier athletic facilities which they showcase in their videos, but their other program venues are sorely lacking in the same quality. Forbes Ratings for a select sample group to compare to HC. Notre Dame GPA of 4.50 and an A+ (ranked #4) Holy Cross GPA of 4.32 and an A+ (ranked #50) Colgate 4.25 and A+ Bucknell 4.21 and A+ Lehigh 4.19 and A+ Lafayette 4.12 and A Boston College 3.92 and A (ranked #80) Boston University 3.82 and A Villanova 3.61 and an A- Santa Clara 3.44 and B+ Georgetown 3.31 and B+ Saint Louis 3.31 and B+ Catholic U. 3.24 and B+ American University 3.15 and B Dayton 3.14 and B John Carroll 3.08 and B Creighton 2.99 and B Saint Joseph’s (Philadelphia) 2.74 and B- WPI 2.83 and B- University of San Francisco 2.61 and B- Saint John’s University (NY) 2.57 and B- Loyola University (MD) 2.39 and C+ DePaul 2.37 and C+ Iona 2.37 and C+ Gonzaga 2.37 and C+ Xavier (OH) 2.37 and C+ Marquette 2.30 and C+ Fairfield 2.17 and C+ Assumption 2.09 and C Fordham 1.92 and C Seton Hall 1.89 and C Providence 1.63 and C- Merrimack 1.57 and C- University of Detroit Mercy 1.46 and D Anna Maria 1.27 and D Becker 1.25 and D (Closing)
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