|
Post by purplehaze on Jul 21, 2021 17:15:22 GMT -5
PP, I’m going to challenge your premise - pls give me the details on aid given to M&W Tennis, M&W golf and M&W swimming at Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Bucknell and Loyola I’m not saying I know but you seem to accept ADMB’s explanation why we’re so pathetically poor at these sports (save men’s golf recently). My personal theory is that there is ‘zero’ modest improvement goals given to these coaches. Just drive the van and keep the kids safe !
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Jul 21, 2021 19:36:12 GMT -5
I can't answer for LC, Colgate, etc, but I can for Bucknell. There is no athletic aid for M&W golf, M&W tennis, and men's swimming. There are a few available for women's swimming - created to help offset football on the men's side.
|
|
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Jul 21, 2021 20:33:07 GMT -5
Because of it, as an Alum, I appreciate what is available on Mt. St. James, that the overwhelming number of schools cannot come close in providing their athletes. Especially the vast majority of Big East Schools regarding on campus intercollegiate facilities. HC five year plan will provide significant and continues improvements in accordance to the required needs for 700+ student athletes. Lacrosse, Soccer and Softball will see significant upgrades. The extraordinary cost of making significant changes to the Hart Rink, will be weight vs the overall benefit and scale of the upgrade. A significant benefactor will help the cause. In the meantime, HC will commit in excess of a half a billion dollars in upgrading residential housing, which will benefit the entire community. While certain schools have a crown gem as the center piece for their athletic program, looking at Xavier University in Cincinnati with the Cintas Center, which is a beautiful on campus Arena, top to bottom, they do not have an extensive array of outstanding facilities for their other programs. For example, baseball, swimming, soccer, etc. They do not have an on campus track, etc to support their teams. Much of this is a function of land. Compare acreages of HC versus selected Big East schools: HC: 174 acres Providence: 105 St. John's 105 Marquette: 93 Seton Hall: 58 DePaul: 36
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jul 21, 2021 23:56:57 GMT -5
PP, I’m going to challenge your premise - pls give me the details on aid given to M&W Tennis, M&W golf and M&W swimming at Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Bucknell and Loyola I’m not saying I know but you seem to accept ADMB’s explanation why we’re so pathetically poor at these sports (save men’s golf recently). My personal theory is that there is ‘zero’ modest improvement goals given to these coaches. Just drive the van and keep the kids safe ! I can tell you that a Colgate golfer just joined the South American PGA tour...doubt he was paying his way there. He is even from Massachusetts too.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Jul 22, 2021 0:58:07 GMT -5
Let's stipulate the obvious - winning is better than losing. Which is better? Last? or Next to Last? Certainly, I think last is more distinctive, has a better sound to it. Who wants to get lost with the other also rans by placing next to last? Who would ever truly want to discuss a perpetually next to last program? But, last in the league inspires a gusher of commentary. Can anyone imagine a thread HC Finishes Next To Last? No way. It has to be either first or last. Nothing in between matters one twit. Had a classmate at HC who bemoaned the fact that he was next to last in his prep school graduating class. He couldn't even distinguish himself by being last. We all raised a toast with a bottle of brew ("ganssett", GIQ(Was it really beer or ...?) in an effort to console him. This about sums up my interest in PL Presidents Cup rankings. (But, winning is still better than losing.)
|
|
|
Post by coacht on Jul 22, 2021 13:06:30 GMT -5
I appreciate the 'tongue in cheek' air to your comment, but my concern is when you have a program that's the perennial doormat you are at risk. At risk for no funding if/when the administration allocates additional resources. At risk for survival if a decision comes down to cut a program or two and refocus on others. In both cases being perpetually uncompetitive may be a qualifying criteria. While you don't get the glory you do in first, there's safety in the pack.
|
|
|
Post by mm67 on Jul 22, 2021 15:59:55 GMT -5
I appreciate the 'tongue in cheek' air to your comment, but my concern is when you have a program that's the perennial doormat you are at risk. At risk for no funding if/when the administration allocates additional resources. At risk for survival if a decision comes down to cut a program or two and refocus on others. In both cases being perpetually uncompetitive may be a qualifying criteria. While you don't get the glory you do in first, there's safety in the pack. We totally agree. As you properly surmised my comment was tongue in cheek.
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Jul 22, 2021 18:44:18 GMT -5
PP, I’m going to challenge your premise - pls give me the details on aid given to M&W Tennis, M&W golf and M&W swimming at Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate, Bucknell and Loyola I’m not saying I know but you seem to accept ADMB’s explanation why we’re so pathetically poor at these sports (save men’s golf recently). My personal theory is that there is ‘zero’ modest improvement goals given to these coaches. Just drive the van and keep the kids safe ! I can tell you that a Colgate golfer just joined the South American PGA tour...doubt he was paying his way there. He is even from Massachusetts too. Looking at Colgate's expenditures on golf, they might have one full scholarship over a four-year period. Not more than that. As for the golfer you mention, during his time at Colgate he never made 1st-team All-Patriot League and he never made 2nd team All-PL No reason to think he was on scholarship based on that. He is originally from South America. The one PL men's team that definitely does have multiple scholarships is Loyola btw..
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 23, 2021 7:44:22 GMT -5
Fin aid merit $ for PL schools in 2018-19. The data for 2019-20 can only be obtained by examining individual schools, as the Title IX site has a software issue when trying to download an Excel file with conference-wide data for 2019-20. The values exclude need-based aid that a student athlete may have received.
$ in millions AU 2.3 / 3.4 BostU 6.3 / 10.0 Bucknell 6.7 / 8.3 Colgate 7.9 / 6.4 HC 6.6 / 5.2 Lafayette 6.1 / 5.0 Lehigh 7.7 / 6.2 Loyola 2.9 / 3.6
For HC, men's ice hockey is at the NCAA cap: 18 scollies. Women's ice hockey is part-way to the cap of 18. AU and Loyola do not field teams in all sports offered by the PL. Colgate is the best comparable to HC, as these are the only two schools with football and ice hockey. This represents 78 scollies (60 (football) + 18 (ice hockey) on the men's side. 78 scollies x @ $67,000 = $.5.3 million Subtracting $5.3M from HC's men's side total results in HC spending $1.3 million on scollies for all other men's side sports (including hoops).
Sports not competed by AU and Loyola: Baseball AU & Loyola Field Hockey Loyola M/W golf AU W golf Loyola Men's lacrosse AU M/W Rowing AU Softball AU & Loyola M/W tennis AU Track & field. Loyola is cross country only
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 23, 2021 10:51:37 GMT -5
I'm thinking HC's consistent bottom-of-the-pile status when it comes to Olympic sports may be less a function of a scholarship or financial aid gap and more of a recruiting budget gap.
During my time at HC, many Olympic sports were basically "walk-on" teams. M/W Swimming, M/W Golf, M/W Tennis and Men's Track/Cross Country for sure.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Jul 23, 2021 11:27:26 GMT -5
I got a note the other day from an alumna I know here in RI about another matter but she wanted to pass along some info she knew I would be interested in. She has a very high level health insurance executive position, so $$$$ probably not an object for her but . . . .
|
|
|
Post by purplehaze on Jul 23, 2021 11:38:16 GMT -5
"and more of a recruiting budget gap" - Totally agree ! We have a great school (now) with FC facilities - it's time to equip these minor sports coaches with a recruiting budget so they can visit a recruit (wow! what a novel idea), attend their competitions occasionally, help them thru the admissions and need based aid process, etc.. i will never believe we are stuck forever with various rosters that cannot compete more successfully among the mid-low D.1 schools we find on our schedules. .
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Jul 23, 2021 12:49:57 GMT -5
Sports not competed by AU and Loyola: Baseball AU & Loyola Field Hockey Loyola M/W golf AU W golf Loyola Men's lacrosse AU M/W Rowing AU Softball AU & Loyola M/W tennis AU Track & field. Loyola is cross country only AU does have wrestling, however, and gives some scholarships in that sport. Definitely not the max of ten however. Other PL schools also have non-PL sports other than hockey, which has already been addressed: Lehigh - wrestling (fully funded - ten scholarships) Bucknell - wrestling, men's water polo, women's water polo Loyola - men's rowing Colgate: men's rowing Boston - men's rowing Lafayette: fencing (Co-ed)
|
|
|
Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 23, 2021 13:30:42 GMT -5
I'm thinking HC's consistent bottom-of-the-pile status when it comes to Olympic sports may be less a function of a scholarship or financial aid gap and more of a recruiting budget gap. During my time at HC, many Olympic sports were basically "walk-on" teams. M/W Swimming, M/W Golf, M/W Tennis and Men's Track/Cross Country for sure. HC's spending on recruiting in 2018-19, all sports, was in the bottom quintile. Maybe Fr. Markey threatens recruits from Catholic schools, particularly Jesuit schools, with eternal damnation if they don't attend.. That could be a low-cost recruiting strategy, given the good Father's annual compensation.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jul 24, 2021 0:48:55 GMT -5
Sports not competed by AU and Loyola: Baseball AU & Loyola Field Hockey Loyola M/W golf AU W golf Loyola Men's lacrosse AU M/W Rowing AU Softball AU & Loyola M/W tennis AU Track & field. Loyola is cross country only AU does have wrestling, however, and gives some scholarships in that sport. Definitely not the max of ten however. Other PL schools also have non-PL sports other than hockey, which has already been addressed: Lehigh - wrestling (fully funded - ten scholarships) Bucknell - wrestling, men's water polo, women's water polo Loyola - men's rowing Colgate: men's rowing Boston - men's rowing Lafayette: fencing (Co-ed) Three schools with men only rowing. Never would have guessed that.
|
|
|
Post by newfieguy74 on Jul 24, 2021 7:51:09 GMT -5
I don't know much about water polo (but have a vague memory of blood in the water during some Olympic matches involving Russia and countries they mistreated). Are there enough other schools that have teams in this part of the US to have a full schedule of matches?
|
|
|
Post by bison137 on Jul 24, 2021 9:00:36 GMT -5
I don't know much about water polo (but have a vague memory of blood in the water during some Olympic matches involving Russia and countries they mistreated). Are there enough other schools that have teams in this part of the US to have a full schedule of matches? Yes. The majority of water polo teams are in California and a few other western states, but there are plenty of eastern schools. In addition to playing the eastern schools, Bucknell every year makes a trip to California over Columbus Day weekend for a tournament and a few other games. And some of the California schools make eastern trips as well, so there is no problem getting games. The eastern schools that play D1 regular season water polo include: - Navy - Bucknell - La Salle - Fordham - George Washington - St. Francis (NY) - Wagner - Mount St. Mary’s - Gannon University - Iona College - Mercyhurst - Salem University - Washington & Jefferson - Johns Hopkins - MIT - Princeton - Brown - Harvard Note: some of the above move over to D3 for the NCAA tournament.
At the end of the year, there is a northern and a southern division tournament, with the winners of the two advancing to an NCAA play-in game. The winner of that game becomes one of six teams to make the NCAA tournament. That is usually held in California, which is where all of the top team are, but Bucknell hosted not too many years ago. Usually the top seven in the national polls are from California, but a few eastern teams slot in after that. Over time the top four in the east have been Bucknell, Navy, Princeton, and St. Francis (NY), which is largely foreign players. Bucknell has won the eastern championship the last two seasons and advanced to the NCAA's in California. Unfortunately over time, a number of programs have been lost due both to Title IX and problems with facility availability. Men's water polo (a fall sport) has a serious overlap with the swimming season, as does women's water polo, which is a spring sport. Schools without quality natatoriums may have problems squeezing in both sports. Two big rivals of Bucknell many years ago were Pitt and Army - both long gone. There are a lot more women's water polo programs these days. Also a huge number of club teams had big schools. Btw, these are the current top ten water polo world rankings: Montenegro Greece Croatia Hungary France Spain Georgia Italy United States Russia Serbia
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jul 25, 2021 1:31:39 GMT -5
Sports not competed by AU and Loyola: Baseball AU & Loyola Field Hockey Loyola M/W golf AU W golf Loyola Men's lacrosse AU M/W Rowing AU Softball AU & Loyola M/W tennis AU Track & field. Loyola is cross country only AU does have wrestling, however, and gives some scholarships in that sport. Definitely not the max of ten however. Other PL schools also have non-PL sports other than hockey, which has already been addressed: Lehigh - wrestling (fully funded - ten scholarships) Bucknell - wrestling, men's water polo, women's water polo Loyola - men's rowing Colgate: men's rowing Boston - men's rowing Lafayette: fencing (Co-ed) Colgate does not have baseball which wasn't mentioned in here.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Jul 25, 2021 1:32:47 GMT -5
I don't know much about water polo (but have a vague memory of blood in the water during some Olympic matches involving Russia and countries they mistreated). Are there enough other schools that have teams in this part of the US to have a full schedule of matches? Harvard hosted the NCAA women's final in 2013 in Cambridge. It went 5 overtimes between USC and Stanford!
|
|
|
Post by purplehaze on Jul 27, 2021 12:02:06 GMT -5
Turning the page to showing improvement in the major and minor sports, I see that most of the 2021-22 rosters have been posted. We can agree that our (minor sports) recruiting has been lackluster for the most part in recent years so if any posters recognize some difference-makers among the newcomers, let's hear about them - the only direction left is the one upward.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Aug 30, 2021 20:35:09 GMT -5
UNH Men's Soccer WANTS to play in the football stadium. That is the decision the coach made since they actually draw a crowd and make the NCAA Tournament consistently. UNH had a very good Soccer team in 2019. Saw where several home games had a listed attendance of over 2,000 (BU and Stony Brook). Hartford game had over 1800. Glad they are a successful program at the University. Great for student morale. UNH should support their efforts by carrying though and building a dedicated Soccer only venue, with a grass pitch, to match FIFA World Cup standards. If Creighton can build Morrison Stadium, seating 7,500, which is an excellent venue, why not UNH. Come on Foley! Give it up!..... let the moths escape from your wallet and provide the initial grant money to get the project started. Hope you know I am messing with you.....😁 Man, you got to stop being so up tight, at your age you are going to have a coronary. Should be noted, UNH and Colgate Men's Soccer on Sunday evening had attendance of 3,317! unhwildcats.com/news/2021/8/29/-20-wildcats-shut-out-colgate-1-0-in-front-of-record-crowd.aspx
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 30, 2021 20:41:18 GMT -5
Was that part of some kind of mass insomnia therapy session?
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 30, 2021 20:43:11 GMT -5
UNH had a very good Soccer team in 2019. Saw where several home games had a listed attendance of over 2,000 (BU and Stony Brook). Hartford game had over 1800. Glad they are a successful program at the University. Great for student morale. UNH should support their efforts by carrying though and building a dedicated Soccer only venue, with a grass pitch, to match FIFA World Cup standards. If Creighton can build Morrison Stadium, seating 7,500, which is an excellent venue, why not UNH. Come on Foley! Give it up!..... let the moths escape from your wallet and provide the initial grant money to get the project started. Hope you know I am messing with you.....😁 Man, you got to stop being so up tight, at your age you are going to have a coronary. Should be noted, UNH and Colgate Men's Soccer on Sunday evening had attendance of 3,317! unhwildcats.com/news/2021/8/29/-20-wildcats-shut-out-colgate-1-0-in-front-of-record-crowd.aspxThis is the same school that "announces" football Homecoming crowds of 20,000.
|
|
|
Post by bfoley82 on Aug 30, 2021 21:17:53 GMT -5
This is the same school that "announces" football Homecoming crowds of 20,000. Look at the picture on the article..that is a substantial crowd.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on Aug 30, 2021 21:26:48 GMT -5
This is the same school that "announces" football Homecoming crowds of 20,000. Look at the picture on the article..that is a substantial crowd. I did. Not sure its 3K plus. But good to see fans and students eager to get to games and do something besides breathe into N95s all day in their own dorm rooms. Might have been a frosh orientation event that wound up being really, really well attended. Great to see and hope this extrapolates to big crowds at sporting events all across the board. Speaking of freshmen, god I hope the college class of 2025 has an overall fairytale first year college experience. Imagine having the second half of your junior year of HS and then all of your senior year ruined. Sports, parties, dances, events, etc.
|
|