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Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2021 15:10:30 GMT -5
There is a lovely produce stand/barn just past Anna Maria on the country road the school is located on. However if I was Anna Maria I wouldn't buy green bananas.
Interesting both Becker and Anna Maria added football in recent years and Mt. Ida played football right to the end. Football is a legitimate investment to attract applicants but in combination with larger factors it didn't work in two out of three cases.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 29, 2021 15:33:17 GMT -5
Outside of td128 and the few football alums on this board, there is probably no other poster as supportive of Crusader football than yours truly. But I have to believe if Holy Cross got rid of football (a la Fairfield though they never had the history in the sport we've had being that that school wasn't established until 1942) that with the exception of football recruits, there would be precious little drop off in applications.
There would, of course, be a decline in alumni donations. I'll leave it to Phreek to figure out if the loss of revenue from donations would offset the reduced expenses that the football program generates.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 29, 2021 16:21:58 GMT -5
Fairfield dropping football was a strategic long term mistake for their athletic program. My opinion, they would have had a Patriot League offer instead of BU. Institutionally regarding size and programs, it would have been a better match, and provided HC with a bona fide rival that could have provided great Thanksgiving Day conversation. The Fairfield football game in September of 1998, certainly was too close for comfort ending with a 26-23 HC victory at Fitton. I’m sure if the score had been reversed, Sader70 and RGS sons would be mentioning it at every Thanksgiving dinner table.
Fr. Aloysius Kelley, expected to save $570,000 by dropping football and hockey.in February 2003. Not so sure that the savings were truly realized and funneled to financial aid as was the rationale. Fairfield and Sacred Heart would have had a great rivalry in both football and hockey. It is conceivable that the two schools could have jointly developed a new Rink, thus splitting the cost for the facility on the former General Electric campus.
Often, you see on the Fairfield Voy Board, someone mentioning leaving the MAAC, and wanting to join the PL for perceived academic peer reasons. If they had retained their football program, IMHO, every year, the last regular game schedule of the season would be balanced with HC vs. Fairfield, Fordham vs Georgetown, Lehigh vs Lafayette and Bucknell vs Colgate. Too bad....what could have been, but for an ill conceived decision.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 29, 2021 16:36:52 GMT -5
You're preaching to the choir, Crucis, as you know. One of my son's roommates was on that last Fairfield football team and they were confident they were going to beat Holy Cross (badly) at Fitton and were devastated when they lost and their season went downhill from there. They honored my son's roommate's scholarship through graduation.
I have a soft spot in my heart for Fairfield as after my son, 3 nephews graduated from there (HC still has the most alums in the clan), and I support them financially in appreciation for the excellent education my son got there.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2021 17:49:15 GMT -5
Outside of td128 and the few football alums on this board, there is probably no other poster as supportive of Crusader football than yours truly. But I have to believe if Holy Cross got rid of football (a la Fairfield though they never had the history in the sport we've had being that that school wasn't established until 1942) that with the exception of football recruits, there would be precious little drop off in applications. There would, of course, be a decline in alumni donations. I'll leave it to Phreek to figure out if the loss of revenue from donations would offset the reduced expenses that the football program generates. I didn't even mean to hint at Holy Cross dropping football. I was just observing how small private colleges have taken various initiatives to broaden their appeal but the overall demographic and economic trends are working against them. Holy Cross should never even consider dropping football. I hope new President Vince will be front and center at the "Rent" in East Hartford on Labor Day Weekend.
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Post by coacht on Jun 29, 2021 17:56:14 GMT -5
To circle back to the initial post, we can climb the PL ladder if we follow a simple program -
- Maintain/improve academic standing (not just what we think of ourselves, but what others think of us - aka rankings) - Improve the facilities to be on-par with the rest of the PL (done for some, in process/planning for others) - Fully fund the scholarships and pay the coaching staff at reasonable rates - Hire coaches that value the academic traditions and put in the time to recruit and develop the best talent - Hold the program, from the AD to the assistant coaches, accountable to the metrics that matter (e.g. team GPA and advancement rate, winning percentage, conference tournament appearances, NCAA appearances, etc.)
For HC softball, the team I follow the most, getting to the PL conference tournament more than once or twice a decade would be a good start.
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Post by bison137 on Jun 29, 2021 18:21:38 GMT -5
Fairfield dropping football was a strategic long term mistake for their athletic program. My opinion, they would have had a Patriot League offer instead of BU. Institutionally regarding size and programs, it would have been a better match, and provided HC with a bona fide rival . . . . Often, you see on the Fairfield Voy Board, someone mentioning leaving the MAAC, and wanting to join the PL for perceived academic peer reasons. If they had retained their football program, IMHO, every year, the last regular game schedule of the season would be balanced with HC vs. Fairfield, Fordham vs Georgetown, Lehigh vs Lafayette and Bucknell vs Colgate. Too bad....what could have been, but for an ill conceived decision. 1. Agree 100%. Fairfield would have been the choice had they had football. 2. Some on the Fairfield board are a bit delusional, thinking that the PL would be happy to add Fairfield. Unless Fairfield reinstates football (which isn't happening), Fairfield will not be asked into the PL unless someone else leaves.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 29, 2021 19:16:14 GMT -5
Was this the Fairfield "Big East" level mistake? So, if BU, for example, left the PL, would we welcome Fairfield as a replacement w/o football since BU doesn't have football either. I'm sure Holy Cross would be upset about giving up the Turnpike Trophy but maybe we could rise above that sacrifice?
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2021 19:54:02 GMT -5
Merrimack Field Hockey played last season at Duane Stadium.on campus vs Wagner and Sacred Heart. Here is the schedule from the limited season. Since it was an exceptional year, they may have received a waiver to play on Field Turf instead of the traditional flat surface that NCAA teams use. When the 2021 schedule is announced, it will note, if they will be traveling road “Warriors”. 😊 merrimackathletics.com/sports/field-hockey/scheduleMerrimack with their Forbes Financial Rating, and the lack of comprehensive on campus venues, should have a realistic review about their position as a D1/FCS program. Merrimack flagship sport is Ice Hockey. Even so, Lawler Rink only seats 2,500. For a small private school, that seems the appropriate size venue for Hockey. UConn’s new Rink at a large public university, now under construction is only slightly larger. With the exception of Notre Dame and BC, the school noted below lack overall and comprehensive on campus premier facilities. I have in person surveyed all but 7 of the campuses listed. The remainder, I am familiar with their campus and physical plant. Again, some have one or two premier athletic facilities which they showcase in their videos, but their other program venues are sorely lacking in the same quality. Forbes Ratings for a select sample group to compare to HC. Notre Dame GPA of 4.50 and an A+ (ranked #4) Holy Cross GPA of 4.32 and an A+ (ranked #50) Colgate 4.25 and A+ Bucknell 4.21 and A+ Lehigh 4.19 and A+ Lafayette 4.12 and A Boston College 3.92 and A (ranked #80) Boston University 3.82 and A Villanova 3.61 and an A- Santa Clara 3.44 and B+ Georgetown 3.31 and B+ Saint Louis 3.31 and B+ Catholic U. 3.24 and B+ American University 3.15 and B Dayton 3.14 and B John Carroll 3.08 and B Creighton 2.99 and B Saint Joseph’s (Philadelphia) 2.74 and B- WPI 2.83 and B- University of San Francisco 2.61 and B- Saint John’s University (NY) 2.57 and B- Loyola University (MD) 2.39 and C+ DePaul 2.37 and C+ Iona 2.37 and C+ Gonzaga 2.37 and C+ Xavier (OH) 2.37 and C+ Marquette 2.30 and C+ Fairfield 2.17 and C+ Assumption 2.09 and C Fordham 1.92 and C Seton Hall 1.89 and C Providence 1.63 and C- Merrimack 1.57 and C- University of Detroit Mercy 1.46 and D Anna Maria 1.27 and D Becker 1.25 and D (Closing) Merrimack field hockey in 2019 didn't play a home game merrimackathletics.com/sports/field-hockey/schedule/2019BC doesn't have comprehensive elite facilities as they don't have a track on campus and a subpar volleyball court. I would say BU probably has more of a comprehensive athletic department as they have a basketball facility that can hold over 6k people for big games and a full indoor track/tennis facility to go with Nickerson Field and the Field Hockey field.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 29, 2021 20:51:55 GMT -5
Phewwww...
Good thing BU has room for 6k asses at Agganis for all those "big basketball games" they have that would bang out Case.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 29, 2021 21:17:51 GMT -5
Fairfield dropping football was a strategic long term mistake for their athletic program. My opinion, they would have had a Patriot League offer instead of BU. Institutionally regarding size and programs, it would have been a better match, and provided HC with a bona fide rival . . . . Often, you see on the Fairfield Voy Board, someone mentioning leaving the MAAC, and wanting to join the PL for perceived academic peer reasons. If they had retained their football program, IMHO, every year, the last regular game schedule of the season would be balanced with HC vs. Fairfield, Fordham vs Georgetown, Lehigh vs Lafayette and Bucknell vs Colgate. Too bad....what could have been, but for an ill conceived decision. 1. Agree 100%. Fairfield would have been the choice had they had football. 2. Some on the Fairfield board are a bit delusional, thinking that the PL would be happy to add Fairfield. Unless Fairfield reinstates football (which isn't happening), Fairfield will not be asked into the PL unless someone else leaves. Does this mean that comparing apples to apples as both Fairfield and BU lack football, that BU was deemed the more desirable candidate to join the PL? Or was it a matter of timing like many things are? I like BU's proximity to HC but Fairfield seems more similar to many PL schools. Did the PL see value in gaining schools in major cities Washington, Baltimore and Boston, the sites of the last three schools to join and the only three members in major cities proper?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 29, 2021 21:20:10 GMT -5
And I know about the previous year’s Merrimack schedule. I checked the schedules from year’s past before posting my comment. It will be interesting to see their schedule come this fall. Will they return to being road warriors with all the games away from Duane Stadium.
Realistically, private colleges and universities have hurdles regarding their athletic physical plan, financing, zoning, land management, space utilization throughout the year, parking, return on investment. If BC with their endowment has not been able to build a new track, since the Alumni Stadium track removal, then who among private schools in the New England and the Northeast have top to bottom comprehensive premier facilities for a large portfolio of sports? In the Northeast....maybe Princeton, but they have more money than 100 or more schools combined for example. BU does not have a baseball stadium, and their softball facility is dismal and cramped. With 12 intercollegiate venues for competition, HC is way above standards for a 3,000 student population with over 700 student athletes. The recently released 5 year athletic plan will ensure that HC continues facility improvement relative to the size and economic viability of the institution. I will take a A+ Forbes top 50 national rating any-day over a new 4,000 seat debt financed white elephant hockey rink at a C- rating institution.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2021 21:58:43 GMT -5
I will take a A+ Forbes top 50 national rating any-day over a new 4,000 seat debt financed white elephant hockey rink at a C- rating institution. Then drop sports then and enjoy that top 50 national rating from Forbes.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 29, 2021 22:01:13 GMT -5
I know about the previous year’s Merrimack schedule. I checked the schedules from year’s past before posting my comment. It will be interesting to see their schedule come this fall. Will they return to being road warriors with all the games away from Duane Stadium. Bryant also doesn't have a home facility for field hockey and they played at home this spring. We will see
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 29, 2021 22:15:30 GMT -5
I will take a A+ Forbes top 50 national rating any-day over a new 4,000 seat debt financed white elephant hockey rink at a C- rating institution. Then drop sports then and enjoy that top 50 national rating from Forbes. HC has a robust sports portfolio, past national championships, hall of fame members, and has maintained its programs with successful partnerships when other similar size schools such as Furman have dropped baseball and lacrosse and never considered an expensive sport such as Ice Hockey and it’s cost. HC will continue to improve its athletic physical plant on campus, with changes being made base on the strategic 5 year plan and hopefully maintain a top 50 Forbes rating. With the recent endowment returns, maybe break into the mid 40’s in the next Forbes assessment. How’s your Alma Mater progressing with new and improved facilities? Are they premiere, middle of the pack, or do they need a new gym because lipstick will not resolve their 1960’s conditions? A facility that was built in 1938, that has a capacity of 2,500 for a student undergraduate population over 12,000. . I understand they have outstanding baseball, softball, Olympic swimming pool, and indoor practice facilities........the last time I was on campus and recently reviewed their facilities, I must have missed seeing them on the tour. .... I’m sure you have heard the glass house analogy. What’s in your wallet, and have you provided support?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 30, 2021 9:17:37 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2021 13:34:01 GMT -5
I had a work assignment in Burlington around 1976 and stayed near the campus. In the mornings I would see a student walking her cow on a leash on the campus. UVM had a good ag component at least at the time. I also recall that getting into UVM as an out of stater was considered quite an accomplishment. I have mixed feelings about borrowing $30 million to upgrade the gym while cutting academic programs. To borrow a football chant, I might encourage the development folks to "hit em again, harder!" and sell the naming rights to every doorknob in the new barn before bonding.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 30, 2021 13:37:03 GMT -5
I don't know about doorknobs, but doors can be sold individually with a name plaque attached to said door in each case. With enough doors, much like memorial benches in local parks, it does add up. And, it gives an ongoing connection to people with the current campus.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 30, 2021 15:59:20 GMT -5
Then drop sports then and enjoy that top 50 national rating from Forbes. HC has a robust sports portfolio, past national championships, hall of fame members, and has maintained its programs with successful partnerships when other similar size schools such as Furman have dropped baseball and lacrosse and never considered an expensive sport such as Ice Hockey and it’s cost. HC will continue to improve its athletic physical plant on campus, with changes being made base on the strategic 5 year plan and hopefully maintain a top 50 Forbes rating. With the recent endowment returns, maybe break into the mid 40’s in the next Forbes assessment. How’s your Alma Mater progressing with new and improved facilities? Are they premiere, middle of the pack, or do they need a new gym because lipstick will not resolve their 1960’s conditions? A facility that was built in 1938, that has a capacity of 2,500 for a student undergraduate population over 12,000. . I understand they have outstanding baseball, softball, Olympic swimming pool, and indoor practice facilities........the last time I was on campus and recently reviewed their facilities, I must have missed seeing them on the tour. .... I’m sure you have heard the glass house analogy. What’s in your wallet, and have you provided support? You talking trash about a swimming and diving program that has won three out of the last four conference championships? Weird! No clue how you missed the pool in the field house since you TOURED the facility. Maybe you should have looked a little harder. Or you talking about the track program which is sending an alum to the Olympics (she won the NCAA title also). The indoor track isn't that great but creating olympians isn't a bad thing. The outdoor track is gorgeous BTW. Did you miss that too?? Or you want to talk about a football program that has won playoff games this millennium? Or you want to talk about a hockey program which has had a few down years but still has six NCAA appearances since Holy Cross has even played in one?? Or you want to talk about the Women's Lax national championship that UNH won? Just odd to be going after them since they actually have been more successful than Holy Cross.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 30, 2021 16:08:15 GMT -5
Football fields with tracks around them wreak of small time.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 30, 2021 16:16:45 GMT -5
Football fields with tracks around them wreak of small time. Holy Cross used to have the best 220 yard track in New England overlooking the football field. It was the only one I can remember. Did other colleges have an eight lap to the mile oval also?
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 30, 2021 16:24:59 GMT -5
As I age, my memory plays tricks on me and sometimes I remember things that probably never happened.
So maybe that's the answer to the question in my mind of late but really thought I recall that Mr. Foley was a big supporter of Holy Cross when he first started posting here. Lately, it's been that Holy Cross seems to be a second or third rate educational institution - lousy teams, lousy facilities.
Now, I actually enjoy having posters from other than Holy Cross backgrounds in order to give us some perspective so we don't all drink the purple Kool-Aid (nice avatar, NAD!). That said, I don't appreciate "outsiders" who only come here to tear down our alma mater.
An analogy to make the point: Many of us come from families that never have a kind word for their siblings, or cousins, or parents even, and that's perfectly fine. But woe to anyone from the outside who might be critical of those same family members.
Foley, take all the pictures you want on the Holy Cross campus but you're not "family."
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 30, 2021 16:31:22 GMT -5
HC has a robust sports portfolio, past national championships, hall of fame members, and has maintained its programs with successful partnerships when other similar size schools such as Furman have dropped baseball and lacrosse and never considered an expensive sport such as Ice Hockey and it’s cost. HC will continue to improve its athletic physical plant on campus, with changes being made base on the strategic 5 year plan and hopefully maintain a top 50 Forbes rating. With the recent endowment returns, maybe break into the mid 40’s in the next Forbes assessment. How’s your Alma Mater progressing with new and improved facilities? Are they premiere, middle of the pack, or do they need a new gym because lipstick will not resolve their 1960’s conditions? A facility that was built in 1938, that has a capacity of 2,500 for a student undergraduate population over 12,000. . I understand they have outstanding baseball, softball, Olympic swimming pool, and indoor practice facilities........the last time I was on campus and recently reviewed their facilities, I must have missed seeing them on the tour. .... I’m sure you have heard the glass house analogy. What’s in your wallet, and have you provided support? Or you want to talk about the Women's Lax national championship that UNH won? They still talk about that 1985 win over Maryland at the Durham watering holes today.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 30, 2021 16:33:13 GMT -5
Or you want to talk about the Women's Lax national championship that UNH won? They still talk about that 1985 win over Maryland at the Durham watering holes today. They still talk about the 1952 Holy Cross baseball title at the nursing homes in Worcester....
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 30, 2021 16:34:15 GMT -5
Football fields with tracks around them wreak of small time. Well, when you have Olympic athletes at your school, you need a big time track facility.
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