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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 24, 2022 17:46:42 GMT -5
Coach Ches has explicitly said in interviews that when you aggregate all of the grant money on their ~120-125 man rosters it equates to ~80-85 full scholarships (for HYP at least). No way the NCAA would let them do that if they wanted to compete in the post season. Max is 63 in FCS. I think its because there's a difference between athletics-based aid and need-based aid. Ivy basketball rosters are often 18-20 deep and I'm sure a good portion get need-based full rides or close to it. And its not like they're banned from the NCAA Tournament. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 24, 2022 17:48:49 GMT -5
 But the Ivies treat athletes the same as non=athletes as far as scholly $$, right? At least at HYP yes because non-athletes whose parents make under a certain annual income and are under a certain net worth threshold are granted full rides if accepted. Of course, coaches know this and can more aggressively recruit players who may fall under that umbrella, if they so choose. |
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Post by football44 on Jul 24, 2022 17:51:42 GMT -5
I haven't heard that before, that the Ivies comply with NCAA rules for regular season play but not for playoffs. I figured it was an academic centered decision by the Ivies not to extend the season. Don’t let them fool you with the academic BS. As Midwest said above they are smug and only want to play you if they have the upper hand. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 24, 2022 18:07:28 GMT -5
I haven't heard that before, that the Ivies comply with NCAA rules for regular season play but not for playoffs. I figured it was an academic centered decision by the Ivies not to extend the season. Don’t let them fool you with the academic BS. As Midwest said above they are smug and only want to play you if they have the upper hand. And if it was really about academics or January exams (which they've since moved to December like everyone else), then all the other fall sports teams would also forgo postseason competition. |
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Post by efg72 on Jul 24, 2022 18:08:38 GMT -5
As I posted earlier, losing Crowley to Harvard is a real time example EFG, this you ^^^^^^. Midwestern you are much more in the loop than I am- honestly i do think the top ivies have attracted, recruited, and received some higher level ranked recruits than we at Holy Cross have brought into the program at this point. We can argue about the rules and numbers but I believe the recruiting rankings will show that to be true. as much as we have gained by performance we MUST find a way never to lose the Crowley’s in football or the Logan’s in hoops as a group we should be focused on keeping our own go holy cross |
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Post by football44 on Jul 24, 2022 18:18:45 GMT -5
Midwestern you are much more in the loop than I am- honestly i do think the top ivies have attracted, recruited, and received some higher level ranked recruits than we at Holy Cross have brought into the program at this point. We can argue about the rules and numbers but I believe the recruiting rankings will show that to be true. as much as we have gained by performance we MUST find a way never to lose the Crowley’s in football or the Logan’s in hoops as a group we should be focused on keeping our own go holy cross Crowley’s parents both graduated from HC. The kid wanted the Harvard degree. Good bye we move on. |
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Post by hcpride on Jul 24, 2022 18:53:07 GMT -5
But the Ivies treat athletes the same as non=athletes as far as scholly $$, right? They do. Or at least that is the case with HYP. I’ve noted here many times that until you go through the process at H or Y or P it is hard (impossible?) to grasp the sort of financial aid money they now spread around to all qualifying students (including athletes). |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 24, 2022 19:11:21 GMT -5
One measure of recruiting stud players could be the number of Ivy League players vs Patriot League players in the NFL. I do understand that some athletes develop physically in college or benefit from coaching. However, “all things being equal”, the disparity in the number of players graduating to the NFL probably is indicative of the disparity in the number of high potential athletes entering the conferences four years earlier.
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Post by efg72 on Jul 24, 2022 19:17:30 GMT -5
Midwestern you are much more in the loop than I am- honestly i do think the top ivies have attracted, recruited, and received some higher level ranked recruits than we at Holy Cross have brought into the program at this point. We can argue about the rules and numbers but I believe the recruiting rankings will show that to be true. as much as we have gained by performance we MUST find a way never to lose the Crowley’s in football or the Logan’s in hoops as a group we should be focused on keeping our own go holy cross Crowley’s parents both graduated from HC. The kid wanted the Harvard degree. Good bye we move on. Don’t disagree but I think we need to find a way that the HYP and Dartmouth group don’t make their option a better place win them all, absolutely not, but a greater percentage moving forward is possible this is not a criticism of where we are but an aspirational goal for the future |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 24, 2022 20:55:32 GMT -5
With Crowley you’d have to figure his family has well above average income with two HC grads, so I would guess he is not attending Harvard for free. Did HC offer him a full scholarship and he and family chose to pay to go to Harvard rather than attend HC at no cost?
When will the Ivies jump fully into the NIL game? Can you imagine how big an NIL pool Harvard alums could amass? “Young man, Harvard does not award athletic scholarships, so your family will have to pay the same $22,000 per year that other families of the same income have to pay.” Harvard alum steps in “young man, I’d like to engage you to help advertise my business and I think $50,000 per year would be fair compensation for the use of your likeness “
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Post by midwestsader05 on Jul 24, 2022 21:02:46 GMT -5
I just find it comical that many on this board claim not to care about the Ivies but spend SOOO much time talking about them. I think what many of us might agree on is that we don’t care if we play them or not. I personally would prefer if we replaced H and/or Y with 2 quality CAA opponents (although again I love beating those two). But they matter because as Breezy’s summation illustrates, HYP will continue to be our biggest source of competition in football recruiting because of the unique type of kid required to thrive in athletics and academics in the PL and Ivy.
BTW, to get back to the the most recent pick-up in this thread, our FBS opponents are likely set for 23’ and 24’. I think everyone will be happy with the 2nd FBS opponent in 23’ and the one for 24’.
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Post by midwestsader05 on Jul 24, 2022 21:12:42 GMT -5
Coach Ches has explicitly said in interviews that when you aggregate all of the grant money on their ~120-125 man rosters it equates to ~80-85 full scholarships (for HYP at least). No way the NCAA would let them do that if they wanted to compete in the post season. Max is 63 in FCS. I think its because there's a difference between athletics-based aid and need-based aid. Ivy basketball rosters are often 18-20 deep and I'm sure a good portion get need-based full rides or close to it. And its not like they're banned from the NCAA Tournament. NY, you’re right and there is technically nothing preventing the IL champ from competing in the FCS post-season this year. Sam Herder and Craig Haley (both very good FCS beat reporters) actually made it sound like there is some friction at several Ivies between coaching staffs and alums vs administrators about future post season play. To be clear, my hypothesis would be that it wouldn’t take long for all other FCS stakeholders to call bull sh*t and demand reforms to those numbers in very short order. Bottom line, I don’t think it’s likely to happen so pointless to speculate for now. 10 DAYS TILL CAMP STARTS!! I’M READY TO FOCUS ON THE PRESENT! |
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Post by hc87 on Jul 24, 2022 21:37:58 GMT -5
I just find it comical that many on this board claim not to care about the Ivies but spend SOOO much time talking about them. I think what many of us might agree on is that we don’t care if we play them or not. I personally would prefer if we replaced H and/or Y with 2 quality CAA opponents (although again I love beating those two). But they matter because as Breezy’s summation illustrates, HYP will continue to be our biggest source of competition in football recruiting because of the unique type of kid required to thrive in athletics and academics in the PL and Ivy. BTW, to get back to the the most recent pick-up in this thread, our FBS opponents are likely set for 23’ and 24’. I think everyone will be happy with the 2nd FBS opponent in 23’ and the one for 24’. Quite the tease lol...I was undah the impression we had 1 FBS game in '23...our cousins in Chestnut Hill. Are you saying we're playing 2 FBS schools in '23 with an 11 game schedule? I could see 2 FBS games in '24 when we can play 12 overall games. |
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 24, 2022 21:57:39 GMT -5
Great post 05. Hard to believe 15 years ago, Dartmouth and Princeton were more or less on par with Bucknell and Lafayette. Last year a hypothetical 1 v. 1 would've been Holy Cross Dartmouth. Adv Big Green but if we play the way we did at 'Nova, its definitely a game that could've been within a score. For additional comparison, Dartmouth did beat SHU by 5 scores last year. And Dartmouth got shutout by Columbia last year at home on national TV. The next week went out and smoked Princeton. The top team in the Patriot League will compete with the Ivy League but 2-6 would be heavy favorite for the Ivy League in any year. |
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Post by hc87 on Jul 24, 2022 22:17:49 GMT -5
Bucknell and GTown have largely punted (excuse the pun) on PL football.
The two L's have potential but can't seem to get out of their own way lately.
Colgate and Fordham are probably the 2 fine institutions in the PL that will give us the most problems football-wise currently.
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Post by mm67 on Jul 24, 2022 22:22:13 GMT -5
Would NIL money impact a need based scholarship during a player's years in the IL?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 24, 2022 22:40:50 GMT -5
Something to consider regarding playing the Ivies: if we do compete with them for players then we should want to play them regularly and beat them. In doing so we might land a few more players: "I'm trying to decide between the full scholly at Holy Cross and those tempting offers from Dartmouth and Yale, very prestigious schools. But Holy Cross beats those Ivies most of the time and I like being on a winning team....." If we don't play the Ivies we can't say that. That won't apply to every player, of course
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 25, 2022 2:12:43 GMT -5
Would NIL money impact a need based scholarship during a player's years in the IL? It would reduce the need for the next year. Kid gets $25k as a sophomore, that has to be counted as income for his next financial aid application |
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Post by hcpride on Jul 25, 2022 3:03:02 GMT -5
Something to consider regarding playing the Ivies: if we do compete with them for players then we should want to play them regularly and beat them. In doing so we might land a few more players: "I'm trying to decide between the full scholly at Holy Cross and those tempting offers from Dartmouth and Yale, very prestigious schools. But Holy Cross beats those Ivies most of the time and I like being on a winning team....." If we don't play the Ivies we can't say that. That won't apply to every player, of course Don’t see us winning the football recruit battles nowadays with HYP. Winning the PL recruit battles (when they occur) while picking up some wins v CAA and lower FBS seems to be our current (and successful) recruit formula. Scheduling (and beating) CAA teams can only help in this regard. |
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Post by midwestsader05 on Jul 25, 2022 6:00:48 GMT -5
Something to consider regarding playing the Ivies: if we do compete with them for players then we should want to play them regularly and beat them. In doing so we might land a few more players: "I'm trying to decide between the full scholly at Holy Cross and those tempting offers from Dartmouth and Yale, very prestigious schools. But Holy Cross beats those Ivies most of the time and I like being on a winning team....." If we don't play the Ivies we can't say that. That won't apply to every player, of course Don’t see us winning the football recruit battles nowadays with HYP. Winning the PL recruit battles (when they occur) while picking up some wins v CAA and lower FBS seems to be our current (and successful) recruit formula. Scheduling (and beating) CAA teams can only help in this regard. Not quite accurate: So far in this class: Robinson - offers from Harvard and Dartmouth. Beesley - offers from Harvard and Princeton. Nunnally - Dartmouth. I agree with you more recruiting wins are needed. I won’t share my personal feelings about a kid like Crowley and my understanding of his decision making in this forum other than to say Ches and Co.’s culture is being built by avoiding kids like that (perhaps fortunately in hindsight). I feel confident Will Robinson will have every bit as good an FCS career as Crowley and even more so am going to enjoy watching Beesley power run block against him should we continue to play Harvard into 2024 and beyond. I was reminded recently by a current player in the inaugural 2018 Chesney class that the “two highest rated recruits in that class lasted 1 year” Another full ride kid lasted less than 2”. I think we need to HIT on all our full rides to make the FCS quarterfinals (next leap for this program) but make no mistake there might not another staff in FCS that has done more in the past 4 years in developing their partial scholly kids into a very respected FCS program. |
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Post by midwestsader05 on Jul 25, 2022 6:05:04 GMT -5
I just find it comical that many on this board claim not to care about the Ivies but spend SOOO much time talking about them. I think what many of us might agree on is that we don’t care if we play them or not. I personally would prefer if we replaced H and/or Y with 2 quality CAA opponents (although again I love beating those two). But they matter because as Breezy’s summation illustrates, HYP will continue to be our biggest source of competition in football recruiting because of the unique type of kid required to thrive in athletics and academics in the PL and Ivy. BTW, to get back to the the most recent pick-up in this thread, our FBS opponents are likely set for 23’ and 24’. I think everyone will be happy with the 2nd FBS opponent in 23’ and the one for 24’. Quite the tease lol...I was undah the impression we had 1 FBS game in '23...our cousins in Chestnut Hill. Are you saying we're playing 2 FBS schools in '23 with an 11 game schedule? I could see 2 FBS games in '24 when we can play 12 overall games. It’s been 3 months since I’ve seen the preliminary OOC schedule for 23’ and 24’ and I could have perhaps mixed up the years. But my understanding is that we are playing 2 FBS opponents in one of the next two seasons similar to 2019. |
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Post by hc6774 on Jul 25, 2022 6:44:08 GMT -5
Coach Ches has explicitly said in interviews that when you aggregate all of the grant money on their ~120-125 man rosters it equates to ~80-85 full scholarships (for HYP at least). No way the NCAA would let them do that if they wanted to compete in the post season. Max is 63 in FCS. I think its because there's a difference between athletics-based aid and need-based aid. Ivy basketball rosters are often 18-20 deep and I'm sure a good portion get need-based full rides or close to it. And its not like they're banned from the NCAA Tournament. Roster size limit makes a difference; the PL is limited to 5 'cut able players'... for program footprint control? athletically the service academy teams are similar to the Ivies; very selective schools that provide very generous nonathletic financial aid. but with rosters of more than 100, all cut able, their rosters are more dynamic, subject to their own internal program footprint control |
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Post by hcpride on Jul 25, 2022 7:16:52 GMT -5
Don’t see us winning the football recruit battles nowadays with HYP. Winning the PL recruit battles (when they occur) while picking up some wins v CAA and lower FBS seems to be our current (and successful) recruit formula. Scheduling (and beating) CAA teams can only help in this regard. Not quite accurate: So far in this class: Robinson - offers from Harvard and Dartmouth. Beesley - offers from Harvard and Princeton. Nunnally - Dartmouth. There will be exceptions to prove the general rule regarding HYP football recruits and HC nowadays. |
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Post by football44 on Jul 25, 2022 7:38:18 GMT -5
With Crowley you’d have to figure his family has well above average income with two HC grads, so I would guess he is not attending Harvard for free. Did HC offer him a full scholarship and he and family chose to pay to go to Harvard rather than attend HC at no cost? When will the Ivies jump fully into the NIL game? Can you imagine how big an NIL pool Harvard alums could amass? “Young man, Harvard does not award athletic scholarships, so your family will have to pay the same $22,000 per year that other families of the same income have to pay.” Harvard alum steps in “young man, I’d like to engage you to help advertise my business and I think $50,000 per year would be fair compensation for the use of your likeness “ KY Crusader Crowley is not attending Harvard free number one and as to your point about Harvard and the Ivies playing in the NIL arena, they've been kind of participating in that arena for a long time now. If they want a player badly enough they'll do what ever it takes to get them. Believe me I know. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 25, 2022 8:04:57 GMT -5
Yes-check my first sentence--the Crowleys are no doubt paying for the son to attend Harvard
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But the Ivies treat athletes the same as non=athletes as far as scholly $$, right? 
