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Post by hc87 on Nov 5, 2016 16:28:58 GMT -5
And how/why that is good for HC football and Holy Cross in general.....
I'm all ears....
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Post by sarasota on Nov 5, 2016 17:16:49 GMT -5
crickets
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Post by bikeman on Nov 5, 2016 17:50:21 GMT -5
A change is needed. No question. The program is on the upswing, although the results this year haven't proved it.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 5, 2016 17:56:26 GMT -5
And how/why that is good for HC football and Holy Cross in general..... I'm all ears.... Because the head coach at BC will be one of only two applicants, the second will be the head coach at Lafayette. |
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Post by hc87 on Nov 5, 2016 20:09:09 GMT -5
And how/why that is good for HC football and Holy Cross in general..... I'm all ears.... Because the head coach at BC will be one of only two applicants, the second will be the head coach at Lafayette. Scoff all you want, but the HC job should be very attractive ....no, it's not 1981 anymore, but they're aren't too many head football coaching jobs at the D1 level that can offer what the Holy Cross job does: high quality kids to coach, facilities, compensation, schedule etc etc....there really aren't many FCS jobs around that top what the Holy Cross job can offer in toto imo. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 5, 2016 21:11:10 GMT -5
Because the head coach at BC will be one of only two applicants, the second will be the head coach at Lafayette. Scoff all you want, but the HC job should be very attractive ....no, it's not 1981 anymore, but they're aren't too many head football coaching jobs at the D1 level that can offer what the Holy Cross job does: high quality kids to coach, facilities, compensation, schedule etc etc....there really aren't many FCS jobs around that top what the Holy Cross job can offer in toto imo. Your devotion to HC and belief in the perception of the program is admirable 87. However to consider HC among the best 1AA jobs in the country is foolish. In fact HC unfortunately ranks no better than 4th in New England. Behind UNH and Harvard for sure, and probably Yale as well. And virtually any candidate would put these 3 ahead of HC, not to mention many other schools across the country. |
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Post by hc87 on Nov 5, 2016 21:30:22 GMT -5
Scoff all you want, but the HC job should be very attractive ....no, it's not 1981 anymore, but they're aren't too many head football coaching jobs at the D1 level that can offer what the Holy Cross job does: high quality kids to coach, facilities, compensation, schedule etc etc....there really aren't many FCS jobs around that top what the Holy Cross job can offer in toto imo. Your devotion to HC and belief in the perception of the program is admirable 87. However to consider HC among the best 1AA jobs in the country is foolish. In fact HC unfortunately ranks no better than 4th in New England. Behind UNH and Harvard for sure, and probably Yale as well. And virtually any candidate would put these 3 ahead of HC, not to mention many other schools across the country. I don't disagree but I would also say that the Harvard, Yale and UNH are three of the bettah jobs in the country at the FCS-level. The Holy Cross job is a very good job imo....you'd be hard-pressed to find a job that combines the quality of a kid to coach, high-level of competition, practice/game-day facilities, quality schedules etc etc that match what the Holy Cross job offers. I'm so tired of our thinking that we are some small podunk school that "can't do it in 2016"...we have to lose this "loser mentality" when it comes to football. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 6, 2016 6:07:02 GMT -5
HC87, once again your frame of reference is anchored in the Carter-Duffner era.
At HC these days, one must recruit within the bounds (binds) of the Academic Index. One must recruit for a school that is exclusively liberal arts, which is not the most popular major these days. One must recruit for a school that is notionally Catholic (although not a seminary). One must recruit for a sport where many parents (perhaps particularly in the Northeast) are steering their sons away from. And one must recruit against the now-generous financial aid packages offered by the Ivies. Recruiting for HC is no bed of roses.
At Holy Cross, spending on financial aid for football has lagged behind Fordham, Colgate, Lehigh, and Lafayette. It may even have lagged behind Bucknell, given the way Bucknell counts financial aid. It surpassed Georgetown, but only narrowly if GU is fielding equivalencies in the mid 50s.
In Teevens' most recent tenure at Dartmouth, he won a total of NINE games in his first FIVE seasons.
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Post by ncaam on Nov 6, 2016 7:18:54 GMT -5
With all these negatives, and I don't disagree they exist, why the hell did be decide to burn so much money on football?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 6, 2016 9:03:45 GMT -5
With all these negatives, and I don't disagree they exist, why the hell did be decide to burn so much money on football? Because the 'negatives' also exist for other men's sports. (Concussion fear would be up there for hockey.) Generalizing, women do better than men on the AI, more welcoming of the liberal arts. And the recruiting competition for women is far less fierce. |
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Jim
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
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Post by Jim on Nov 6, 2016 9:13:56 GMT -5
Assumption fans are starting to worry that they'll lose their coach, if this is the end of the road for HCTG. assumptiongreyhounds.com/sports/fball/coaches/Chesney_Bob?view=bio9 - 1 so far in 2016. Playing at LIU-Post on Saturday for the NE-10 Championship. Until the Holy Cross season started heading south, these same Assumption fans had him in the mix for Brian Kelly's job, since the ND season, arguably, starting heading south first, so there may be some delusions of grandeur, but anyway.... |
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Jim
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
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Post by Jim on Nov 6, 2016 9:22:25 GMT -5
Separate thought, given our position among the nation's most elite liberal arts colleges, athletic recruiting, academically, must be extremely challenging, which is no surprise. Since we are not an Ivy League school, who is the type of coach out there that could recruit the elite students - elite athletes we need to succeed in the PL and FCS?
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 6, 2016 9:24:00 GMT -5
Coach Chesney has done a great job at Assumption. He has made them a winning program and kept them there. I don't know if he is up to the recruiting you see in Division I but his name would likely be in the mix if the head coach position opens up at Holy Cross.
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Post by gks on Nov 6, 2016 10:33:48 GMT -5
Bob Chesney is young, energetic and charismatic. He would no doubt be a success if he were to be at HC. If you look at Assumption when he arrived to where they are now it's amazing. He didn't do it alone though. The college upped its financial aid for football big time and improved facilities. There is no doubt he will be a hot name in the offseason.
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 6, 2016 12:17:34 GMT -5
OK, I'll bite. From everything I have seen, our student athletes are very loyal to Coach Gilmore. He is very hard working and he has been an ethical coach with the right values for our program, who has always put the overall welfare of our players first in his decision making. He sees the big picture, and has supported innovation, such as our mentoring program. He has assembled a very good staff, and his recruiting has had several bright spots over the years. I want us to do better, and I applaud the leadership of ADNP and the renewed commitment of the college to our football program. I am not at all sure that excising the coach and dropping another guy into the hot seat would be a positive for us at this time. It may well be best to let the current coaching team continue with the plans that have been laid. Go Cross!
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 6, 2016 12:19:03 GMT -5
OK, I'll bite. From everything I have seen, our student athletes are very loyal to Coach Gilmore. He is very hard working and he has been an ethical coach with the right values for our program, who has always put the overall welfare of our players first in his decision making. He sees the big picture, and has supported innovation, such as our mentoring program. He has assembled a very good staff, and his recruiting has had several bright spots over the years. I want us to do better, and I applaud the leadership of ADNP and the renewed commitment of the college to our football program. I am not at all sure that excising the coach and dropping another guy into the hot seat would be a positive for us at this time. It may well be best to let the current coaching team continue with the plans that have been laid. Go Cross!
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Post by sarasota on Nov 6, 2016 13:28:23 GMT -5
Just read Chesney's bio.......impressive. But does he need a network of D1 asst coaches from which to recruit his asst coaches?
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Post by joe on Nov 6, 2016 16:51:54 GMT -5
No way. He has zero D1 experience. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
We need someone akin to Carmody if we're indeed looking for someone in the first place. Someone who has a proven D1 pedigree who can be or was a head coach in the FBS but may have some good personal and professional reasons for taking a smaller D1 job. Sorry, no D3 up and comers, no bargains, just find the best guy out there and pay him well. Not this time. Not this hire. Chesney can be an FCS offensive or defensive coordinator for a few years and move up from there. No D3 to D1 head coach transition for HC at this time please. Absurd gamble.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 6, 2016 17:09:11 GMT -5
Didn't Rick Carter have zero D-1 experience before he got to HC?
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Post by joe on Nov 6, 2016 17:14:02 GMT -5
Didn't Rick Carter have zero D-1 experience before he got to HC? No but it's not 1981 either. There will be multiple D1 guys out there that would fit the bill. Of course that is if Pine will even be looking. Still a good chance he considers the injuries this year and doubles down on Gilmore and Pujals. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Nov 6, 2016 17:24:50 GMT -5
No way. He has zero D1 experience. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. We need someone akin to Carmody if we're indeed looking for someone in the first place. Someone who has a proven D1 pedigree who can be or was a head coach in the FBS but may have some good personal and professional reasons for taking a smaller D1 job. Sorry, no D3 up and comers, no bargains, just find the best guy out there and pay him well. Not this time. Not this hire. Chesney can be an FCS offensive or defensive coordinator for a few years and move up from there. No D3 to D1 head coach transition for HC at this time please. Absurd gamble. Not only the example KY gave in Rick Carter - who made the jump, and Assumption is D2, not D3.
Also - plenty of successful coached have went from D2/3 to 1A with success, so making the jump is not difficult, and furthermore unless HC breaks the bank with a RW type of deal - there isn't going to be a lot of current D1 coaches banging down HC's door. Apparently you've been drinking out of the same jug that HC87 has.
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Post by joe on Nov 6, 2016 17:45:07 GMT -5
That shows you how much I give a rat's behind about Assumption football. D2, D3, D10 who cares. If we going to drop a guy like Gilmore (and I'm not convinced we should) it simply can't be for anyone who isn't as close to a sure thing as possible. Remember Gilmore would be getting fired, not leaving of his own accord. I can't imagine you'd fire a guy like that without having someone pretty incredible in mind to take over.
Just my opinion.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 6, 2016 17:53:41 GMT -5
Didn't Rick Carter have zero D-1 experience before he got to HC? Correct But Dayton was a Division I program playing Div III football, As were Georgetown, Santa Clara, and St. John's, among others. IMO, Carter had a recruiting advantage even at Div III, as did the other major universities, in name and brand recognition. Not so being head coach at Salve Regina. . Not that long ago, Notre Dame hired the coach of Moeller to be its head coach. That did not work out well. Based on that, I would never say that a Div I program would not hire a HC with no Div I experience, but I think it highly unlikely in this day and age. IMO, its as far-fetched as those on BC boards calling for Bill O'Brien to be their next head coach. |
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Post by joe on Nov 6, 2016 17:59:42 GMT -5
Didn't Rick Carter have zero D-1 experience before he got to HC? Correct But Dayton was a Division I program playing Div III football, As were Georgetown, Santa Clara, and St. John's, among others. IMO, Carter had a recruiting advantage even at Div III, as did the other major universities, in name and brand recognition. Not so being head coach at Salve Regina. . Not that long ago, Notre Dame hired the coach of Moeller to be its head coach. That did not work out well. Based on that, I would never say that a Div I program would not hire a HC with no Div I experience, but I think it highly unlikely in this day and age. IMO, its as far-fetched as those on BC boards calling for Bill O'Brien to be their next head coach. Right the normal progression is D2/D3 position coach to D2/3 coordinator to D2/3 head coaching. Jump to D1 and repeat, jump to NFL and repeat. I'm the end this will all be about dollars and cents. We can get anyone if we show him the money. |
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Post by alumnusdad on Nov 6, 2016 20:43:46 GMT -5
"... he has been an ethical coach with the right values for our program, who has always put the overall welfare of our players first ..." Not true via my direct and knowledgeable observation. Time for Gilmore to go!! |
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