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Post by mm67 on Jun 19, 2022 7:33:10 GMT -5
The story of the Bishop & the Nativity school has gone national. AP is carrying the story. Hopefully, the national attention will bring money to the school to effectively counter the predations of this warped man.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 19, 2022 9:16:54 GMT -5
The story of the Bishop & the Nativity school has gone national. AP is carrying the story. Hopefully, the national attention will bring money to the school to effectively counter the predations of this warped man.
It is in the NY Times today:
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 19, 2022 10:19:27 GMT -5
The story of the Bishop & the Nativity school has gone national. AP is carrying the story. Hopefully, the national attention will bring money to the school to effectively counter the predations of this warped man. Never let it be said that the Catholic Church doesn't go all in when it sees an opportunity to tarnish its sullied reputation even more.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 19, 2022 10:30:31 GMT -5
The American Conference of Bishops is arguably among the most religiously conservative in the world. However, the Times article pointed out most Catholic bishops are not expected to take similar steps. Actually, the Bishop has hurt the Catholic conservative movement. The publicity has been horrible. Expect Bishop McManus will be isolated and very much alone. Of course, he will fight on till the end. And, it is quite possible that some day he may have the wind at his back.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 19, 2022 11:08:17 GMT -5
The Bishop isn’t wrong when he says that BLM the organization is very very different than blm the statement. That seems to be the crux of his argument.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2022 11:21:21 GMT -5
The only time I hear of BLM the organization is via conservative media which leads me to suspect it is being kept in the public eye as a Boogeyman to balance the January 6th mob.
Does the organization do anything of note that would cause the MSM to report on it's activities in the same way as say the NAACP or the Urban League?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 19, 2022 11:28:15 GMT -5
That’s a big part of the problem, LS — who knows what the organization does besides acting as a slush fund for its leaders and wreaking havoc on cities during the summer of 2020.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 12:29:12 GMT -5
Sorta like the guy speaking the big lie asking morons to contribute to fight false claims.Everything that guy does is to fund his personal slush fund.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2022 12:30:51 GMT -5
Here we go again
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 12:43:30 GMT -5
Truth hurts folks like you
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 19, 2022 12:47:01 GMT -5
Here we go again
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2022 12:47:46 GMT -5
Im sure the bishop would approve those blue flags to be flown that rednecks planted in the back of their pickups.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jun 19, 2022 15:48:39 GMT -5
The Bishop isn’t wrong when he says that BLM the organization is very very different than blm the statement. That seems to be the crux of his argument. Yes, but his position is fatuous. I don't know of anyone who speaks of supporting BLM the organization but I know countless people (and I include myself) who passionately support the sentiment. It's not hard to imagine how the Bishop's statements make the Nativity School's black people, and black people generally in Worcester, feel. Maybe the Pope could find some meaningless job for this old fool at the Vatican, a la Cardinal Law.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 19, 2022 17:03:32 GMT -5
Support for BLM depends on your caste. I do support BLM but not all the actions taken by some of its members & others at their protests. Early on I took the time to read their mission statement directly from the BLM website(not the fraudulent sites spreading misinformation & fear.) I assume everyone interested did the same. I won't bother to summarize it . However suffice to say BLM endorses peaceful demonstrations to protest the horrible, unwarranted killing of Black men by police. Many both Black & white are outraged at these murders of black men by some of the police. Black lives do matter. BLM is opposed to racism & bigotry of all kinds.It does not espouse or endorse violence as did earlier groups such as The Black Panthers or contemporary violent, racist groups such as the Proud Boys/Oath keepers. They are trying to bring about change. Some of BLM policies such as Defund the Police I strongly oppose. However it succeeded in raising consciousness about the problem and legislation has been passed, some of which I do not agree with & some I find worthwhile. Unfortunately those against BLM and its ideals have effectively turned a section of public opinion against BLM for their own political purposes. This bishop has a tin ear when it comes to adopting a position of love & understanding for the marginalized. He will move on and life will go on w/o him. Obviously, I support both BLM & LGBQT. ( By the way I am still trying to find words of Jesus condemning homosexuality. It was proscribed in the Old Testament.) Peace.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jun 19, 2022 19:56:17 GMT -5
.It does not espouse or endorse violence as did earlier groups such as The Black Panthers. Im actually not sure if this is entirely true. BLM was outspoken during the riots during the summer of 2020 and I can’t recall the organization ever speaking out against all of the destruction, casualties, etc. The founders / organizers of BLM proudly announced they are trained marxists. Karl Marx wrote that there is only one means to shorten, simplify and concentrate the murderous death throes of the old society and the bloody birth pangs of the new, only one means—revolutionary terrorism. While BLM may have not explicitly encouraged the mass violence and rioting in many major cities during the summer and fall of 2020, they were absolutely part of it.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 19, 2022 20:33:46 GMT -5
The actions of McManus will backfire. He will have brought the Nativity School lots of good press that should drive up its donations. Conversely McManus will have brought much bad press to the diocese which will likely have the effect of a reduction in its donations. Worcester parishioners who wish to continue to support their parishes but not the bishop, and who trust their pastors, could give the money directly to the pastor. If the diocese of Worcester is the same as Long Island, the bishop receives a percentage of what goes in the basket. If a parishioner gives directly to the pastor, the pastor does not have to give a percentage of that to the bishop. I have been doing that for a few years.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 19, 2022 20:48:19 GMT -5
SOV Points well taken. However, its mission statement includes a specific rejection of the use of violence. You are referring to classical Marxism. However, there are various types of Marxists. Marxism has evolved. There have even been Marxist Catholic priests in spite of the fact that Marxism specifically rejects religion and belief in God. Had a teacher who was a Christian pacifist Marxist. Trained Marxists? Sounds very ominous indeed. Are they trained in Marxist philosophy as are many educated in secular universities? Certainly some rioters were BLM members. And, some rioters were not. Look I saw some vids of BLM people doing terrible things but they were not representative of the entire movement. The overwhelming majority of BLM demonstrators were not violent as measured by every available indicator. None of this is to suggest anyone should join the BLM movement. Nor, does it excuse the behavior of the bishop. Thanks. I enjoyed the exchange and the shared bon ami. Peace
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 19, 2022 20:56:56 GMT -5
To help the cause, BLM the organization could disband and leave advocacy to the widely accepted civil rights organizations who have built legitimacy through years of positive work.
That way people like Bishop McManus who say they support the sentiment but not the organization wouldn't have anything to complain about the flag.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 19, 2022 21:59:36 GMT -5
No doubt BLM failed in its attempt to build a broader movement of the size & scope of various civill rights movements. In a critique the point was made that BLM was too loosely organized. It had no truly unified focus on its message and on its messaging, including the behavior of some of its adherents.. No doubt there would be some who would go "rogue" without some direction. All lives are precious. It would have been inspiring if the bishop met with kids and listened to them as well as giving his message of faith. In other words dialogue. Also, he could have dialogued with leaders of the civil rights community and with members of BLM, too. Also, dialogue with gays and those in the gay leadership community. I honestly believe that honest, open and respectful exchanges result in people finding they share much in common and lead to understanding of their differences all around. It's called the human experience. We need to listen and learn from each other. Yet, this bishop bursts in like a bull in a china shop. I don't get it.
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Post by Tom on Jun 19, 2022 22:11:07 GMT -5
However suffice to say BLM endorses peaceful demonstrations to protest the horrible, unwarranted killing of Black men by police. Many both Black & white are outraged at these murders of black men by some of the police. I can't open the website right now, but the last time I could, the website cited the murder of Michael Brown as one of the primary reasons for founding the organization. Now in all fairness there were two very different versions of what happened that day. However one version was consistent with the physical evidence and one was not. That case was so outrageous it could have been labeled "suicide by cop". Far from a landmark case to found a movement. What happened to George Floyd was a horrible unwarranted killing. Two of the four officers have been found guilty by the system. Charges are still pending on the other two. The system worked. It seems to me that BLM thinks all police shootings of black people should result in a conviction, without looking at the facts of individual cases
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Post by mm67 on Jun 19, 2022 23:44:02 GMT -5
Hi Tom. I Believe BLM is attempting to prevent/reduce the number of unwarranted police killings of Black Men. BLM is a loose movement with differing opinions among its followers. No doubt there are some who fit your description. There had been a number of highly criticized killings by cops prior to the Michael Brown case.(Eric Garner, Amadou D'Allo and others going back decades.) The system did not work for these dead man and many others. For many years African-Americans have been fearful of cops & worried about cops killing them or members of their families. .These earlier killings around the nation and the failure to prosecute set the stage for the reaction to the Brown killing and the rest. People had enough. Some joined BLM in an effort to say our lives matter too. In fact there was awidely-held belief that Black lives are not as important as white lives. I think it is a disservice & quite a stretch to think BLM & millions of citizens not affiliated with BLM are not interested in the facts. Unfortunately police sometimes aided by the prosecutors office all too often bury the facts of a cop shooting. Some would posit that t is the police who are not interested in the facts. Why not try to reach out to black community leaders, those in the civil rights movement, & recite your post? Speak to friends. Speak to kids. It might start a good conversation. Finally it is obvious that there are good cops & prosecutors. However, years ago I attended a number of NYC police conferences at Police Hdqtrs, 1 Police Plaza. The racial hatred expressed by most street cops of these "black animals",(not my words) & commonly used "N" word was appalling. The police brass or "suits" expressed to me their concerns about this problem among the ranks. BLM is seeking more training , better programs to improve racial awareness, more counseling for police and more careful screening of applicants among other things. Peace
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Post by Tom on Jun 20, 2022 8:28:06 GMT -5
I do not dispute their are racial issues in many, many police departments. Getting pulled over for driving while black happens frequently. There are issues that need to be addressed.
When an organization starts lumping Officer Wilson in with Derek Chauvin they are doing everyone a disservice. I am concerned about a self fulfilling prophesy. There has been a big uptick in police officers being shot, which is going to make them more cautious. If so many cops weren't being targeted, does a half awake Amir Locke get more opportunity to drop the gun he was holding?
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Post by mm67 on Jun 20, 2022 8:52:06 GMT -5
Hi Tom, The "No Knock" search warrant executed by the Minneapolis police (which was opposed by the St.Paul police) lies at the heart of the problem, no? Cops blast into the home of a sleeping guy who wakes & grabs his gun in self-defense. Totally understandable, no? Under the circumstances the cops shot first in self-defense. Totally understandable, no? (As the court found) Everything was totally understandable and yet tragically a life was taken. Protesters rally. The issue of this type of warrant and its attendant problems was highlighted. Minnesota passed a strong law eliminating "No Knock Search Warrants" in most cases. A life was lost which could have been saved. The protesters may have succeeded in saving the lives of others. Used to engage in a police exercise "Shoot Don't Shoot." It really highlighted the difficulty for police in certain situations. These situations occur routinely but there is no need to add to it by placing cops & civilians in this terrible position with these types of warrants. Thanks for the stimulating exchange of ideas. Peace.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 20, 2022 9:16:59 GMT -5
I'll probably regret getting into this discussion.
As I've posted many times before, I'm not a cop and none in my family other than my great grandfather. However, over my career and working in my neighborhood, I've come to know many police officers personally including local police (and chiefs, lieuts., sgts. patrol officers, K-9 cops and their dogs), state police, sheriffs deputies and many, many retired NYPD. Some of these guys were on the NY Organized Crime Task Force of NYPD/State/local cops fighting, I'll say it, the "Mafia." Not one of them do I think would ever do some of the terrible things that we've seen in the media. I like these guys. They are in a fraternity but in a good way.
But, like any organization, there are bad apples and the police are not immune from this within their ranks. And, they are also human and make mistakes especially in a very high stress job. Some of them told me that their jobs are like 99% boredom and 1% stark terror. (Ever see them sitting in their cars or standing in the street watching construction guys digging holes in the road? Often on their cell phones.) And, unfortunately, we've seen too many cases of no-knock mistakes where some snitch gives wrong information on purpose or accident or the cops go to the wrong address and innocents get hurt or killed.
Initially, when the Black Lives Matter came into being, my reaction was "huh? Don't ALL lives matter?" But giving this more thought, they weren't saying that only Black Lives Matter or Black Lives Matter more but rather they mean Black Lives Matter too. And they certainly do.
There have been some excellent suggestions by prior posters that Bishop McManus should consider and I believe he did a "Ready, Fire, Aim" and might have found some better understanding and maybe even an accommodation or compromise had he visited the school and spoken to the students and what these flags mean to them.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 20, 2022 9:34:09 GMT -5
Good idea, but since he is not the type of person who has a semblance of an open mind, I doubt he even considered the possibility of visiting, or even if he had, would have still proceeded on his reckless path.
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