|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 30, 2022 23:03:14 GMT -5
Caro, have you officially waived the white flag? Can we get a mea culpa? It’s okay to admit you were wrong. It’ll feel better. For what? Saying that Nelson deserved a chance to coach in Year 4 after inheriting a program in shambles and then facing a global pandemic beginning in his first year? I still stand by that. Nelson figuring things out this year was our best chance for success in the near term. Another coaching change is just going to cause more losing and more pain. Nelson clearly hasn’t figured it out and playing out the string any longer is pointless, especially with an alum like RJ on the staff. Well, you were wrong, a year was wasted, and the program was set back multiple years as the next coach will be weighed down by a few of the transfers Nelson brought in. It was readily apparent to those paying attention that this job is simply too much for Nelson to handle. Just not equipped for it. A change needed to be made after last season and it’s a shame that didn’t happen. There were zero signs this program was moving forward with him. If another coach had shown some promise and progress (even with a poor record), then a fourth year should be warranted. That‘s never happened with Nelson. He will leave the program in worse shape than he found it.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:04:47 GMT -5
Post by alumni111 on Nov 30, 2022 23:04:47 GMT -5
“My kids are not mature, they need to grow up, and I can’t find anyone that’s competitive.” Ya, real class act. 19-69 BN said that? On the air? If that's the direct quote, he HAS to be gone. YESTERDAY!
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on Nov 30, 2022 23:11:42 GMT -5
The thing is....turning this program around (somewhat anyway) is not undoable in a relatively short-term....turning a football program around is more of a turning around an aircraft carrier (a nod to our V-12 legacy), more players, more of a program re-build and Chesney did this at HC in fairly short order.
Different dynamic in hoop...we are playing at the highest level (in theory anyway) but all it takes is 2 or 3 good players/recruits/transfers to "right" the program....the thing is, we have to find the right guy to lead that program and that right guy has to make the right moves right away.
We shall see.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:12:07 GMT -5
lou likes this
Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2022 23:12:07 GMT -5
For any wondering, the 38 points were not the lowest ever. That would be 34 in 2018. 38 is tied for 4th lowest.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:12:10 GMT -5
Post by alumni111 on Nov 30, 2022 23:12:10 GMT -5
Some quick thoughts if the decision is made in the next three weeks Give the whistle to RJ Pull together a group of seven to ten former players and coaches to address the top five issues with the program that must be fixed for the new coach and players to be successful Get them in place immediately or as soon as possible to attract the right coach Work with the President, AD, and the Athletic Subgroup of the board to inform and gain support and investment for changes Be strategic and surgical in hiring the next coach Build a top OOC schedule that will excite players and fans Sell these changes to the Holy Cross Community and all of Worcester Trip to Europe after summer classes-year one if possible but no later than year two Other items? THAT is a plan. Only quibble is that the OOC doesn't need to be top notch, just not laughable (Dean, C-S) like it is now. Decent local/regional teams will love coming to HC to get an easy (for now) W, fans are more likely to show up if visiting team at least has some name recognition/credibility, and players can measure their progress by how they play against REAL competition. Just work your way back up the ladder with kids who want to compete.
|
|
|
Post by HC92 on Nov 30, 2022 23:12:47 GMT -5
“My kids are not mature, they need to grow up, and I can’t find anyone that’s competitive.” Ya, real class act. 19-69 BN said that? On the air? If that's the direct quote, he HAS to be gone. YESTERDAY! Not a direct quote. The interview is on page 5 if you want to watch. He said they have to mature and that’s on him. He also said we need to find out who’s competitive against CCSU. The interview will not be in the top 20 reasons he’s fired.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:16:55 GMT -5
Post by timholycross on Nov 30, 2022 23:16:55 GMT -5
This disaster will have many collateral casualties. Sadly, the assistants made a career mistake by joining Brett Nelson's staff. Obviously, a program does not hire from within a losing team. Assistants may have a tough time finding another job in college basketball. Selling insurance looms for some. Doubt if many players would return to a Nelson coached team. Expect Batchelder to transfer out. As of necessity there will be a thorough house cleaning. It is a very sad bordering on tragic situation. (Of course it's basketball not the war in Ukraine but still...) mm- I think we're down to a less than 10% chance Brett Nelson coaches in the fall of 2023, maybe not the winter of 2023, either. And I think I can safely say that no one will depart Holy Cross because Brett Nelson is no longer leading them.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:21:14 GMT -5
Post by classof83 on Nov 30, 2022 23:21:14 GMT -5
With Gates not playing, tonight we saw a glimpse of what this team looks like next year..... ugh
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:26:28 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by bringbackcaro on Nov 30, 2022 23:26:28 GMT -5
For what? Saying that Nelson deserved a chance to coach in Year 4 after inheriting a program in shambles and then facing a global pandemic beginning in his first year? I still stand by that. Nelson figuring things out this year was our best chance for success in the near term. Another coaching change is just going to cause more losing and more pain. Nelson clearly hasn’t figured it out and playing out the string any longer is pointless, especially with an alum like RJ on the staff. He will leave the program in worse shape than he found it. Oh yeah? I’d say we’re still a gambling ring + Doug Gottlieb wannabe away from deteriorating to the culture that his predecessor left off for him.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:36:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 30, 2022 23:36:45 GMT -5
You really should cut your losses-this is beyond ridiculous.
|
|
|
Post by Xmassader on Nov 30, 2022 23:42:24 GMT -5
Kit.....I'm begging you. Please. Tell Nelson you need to meet with him in the morning. Then make the change NOW. Agreed, but then what? I don’t think the Alumni or remaining fans understand how awful this situation is. We are now, legitimately, the worst program in the country, where it will be INCREDIBLY difficult to get the coach needed to reverse this disaster. If HC is open to offering a 7 figure salary with a minimum 5 year commitment then and only then, will they have a chance of being relevant again. This has gone on far too long, a whole generation if you will. We are a laughing stalk, and even worse known as a “basketball cemetery”. Drastic measures are needed, moves that I truly believe Holy Cross will not support or even listen too. I won’t even begin to discuss getting the right talent, let’s just say the chances of a 7 foot transfer from Rutgers coming to the Hill, will NEVER HAPPEN. This way Beyond Nelson… Jared Indeed we may be the worst D-1 team in the country. As I recall, Chris Spitler made that same comment in the ‘99-‘00 season. As you well know, with CRW at the helm and the arrival of Josh Sankes, we won 22 games and went to the NCAA tournament the next year. With the right coach, it can be turned around. Was watching the Michigan State-Portland game two nights ago and the announcers mentioned that Portland had gone 1-42 in the West Coast Conference from 2018 to 2021. Last year, with a new coach (Shantay Legans), they went 19-15 overall and 7-7 in the WCC and this year are 6-4 with wins over Air Force and Villanova and close losses to Carolina (8 pts.) and Michigan St. (1 pt.). My point-a new coach (the right coach) can make all the difference. So how do we go about finding that person. Not by replicating the process used to hire SK, MB, BC and BN, basically selections by ADs who knew little or nothing about hoops and who relied on search firms to identify and/or vet candidates with little, if any, input from former HC coaches or players and knowledgeable alums. When a former HC player mentioned to Marcus Blossom in June of 2019 that the hiring of the next men’s hoop coach would be one of the most important hires in his tenure as HC AD, MB responded “Correction, it will be THE most important hire.” Well, how has that worked out? For as much criticism as BN has received (much of it justifiable), BN did not hire BN. The AD did and the BOT signed off. We simply can’t afford to use the same approach the next time that a new coach is hired. We need to identify several candidates with (a) head coaching experience and a record of excellence (winning % of .600 or better) (similar to Coach Chesney’s record prior to coming HC), (b) a general familiarity with HC and its basketball history and tradition and (c) a burning desire to coach at HC and succeed at HC. In the last 13+ seasons, we have had only 2 winning seasons, no PL regular season titles and 1 PL tournament title and NCAA tournament appearance, a dismal and embarrassing stretch of HC hoops. ADKH and the BOT are “on the clock” to get the ship righted. Hopefully, they’re up to the task this time around but, if they employ the same methodology used in hiring the last 4 coaches, I’m afraid we’re in for more dissapointment.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:52:14 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 30, 2022 23:52:14 GMT -5
I think the phrase some have used, “winning the press conference”, is so apt here. That brings you SK and BN and then nothing but heartache. No more of this mentality!!
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:57:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Nov 30, 2022 23:57:02 GMT -5
He will leave the program in worse shape than he found it. Oh yeah? I’d say we’re still a gambling ring + Doug Gottlieb wannabe away from deteriorating to the culture that his predecessor left off for him. Gambling ring? That must have been all over the news.
|
|
|
Harvard
Nov 30, 2022 23:58:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 30, 2022 23:58:18 GMT -5
Jade Tse- 3 turnovers in 4 minutes of play today. For the season 62 minutes played with 4 assists and 11 turnovers. The season is young and that’s a small sample, but alarming from my POV. M
|
|
|
Harvard
Dec 1, 2022 0:10:29 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Dec 1, 2022 0:10:29 GMT -5
Jade Tse- 3 turnovers in 4 minutes of play today. For the season 62 minutes played with 4 assists and 11 turnovers. The season is young and that’s a small sample, but alarming from my POV. M I didn't think we were getting a great scorer but assumed we were getting a savvy veteran point guard.
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 1, 2022 5:40:50 GMT -5
To be fair, so would me, you, NAD, Dean Wormer and Iggy (RIP). Can I be the 6th man. Not that you would need much help You can start if you want, Jflare, I don't mind coming off the bench.
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 1, 2022 5:44:01 GMT -5
Brett Nelson must be crying himself to sleep each night, realizing, after great success as a player and being an assistant at a successful program, that “I don’t have what it takes to be a head basketball coach”. He’s still young- where does he go from here? That's what I've been doing since the season started....actually, a lot longer than that.
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 1, 2022 5:46:09 GMT -5
Sad that some of the recruited upperclassmen can't get playing time.... Sad that said upperclassmen are that bad; or at least in the eyes of the coaching staff are that bad. No other reason to not play them. I was actually trying to convey the same sentiment, tim, just left out "bad". For him to be critical of any player is just an indictment of himself.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Dec 1, 2022 5:50:14 GMT -5
Jade Tse- 3 turnovers in 4 minutes of play today. For the season 62 minutes played with 4 assists and 11 turnovers. The season is young and that’s a small sample, but alarming from my POV. M One of the worst things about last night was that Harvard's pressure wasn't that great and they still stole the ball left and right; taking it away from just about everyone.
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 1, 2022 5:50:39 GMT -5
I just wonder if it's too late to really fix things in this current landscape of college basketball. Sure, if they hire the right guy the product can be improved, but will it really matter?
Just look at this board - how many regular posters do we have under the age of 30? Is there a single current student out there who posts? There is no loyalty now; I really can't blame students for not getting engaged and connected with their teams, not just at HC. Ralph Willard seems like a generation ago at this point.
Bleep you Rick Pitino!
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 1, 2022 6:03:09 GMT -5
I still plan on going to games when my eyes allow me to....I guess I'm just like a wildabeest that just instinctively follows the herd across a river infested with crocodiles.
|
|
|
Harvard
Dec 1, 2022 6:31:02 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sader1970 on Dec 1, 2022 6:31:02 GMT -5
For Holy Cross, the talent is not there; the coach is not there; and the fans are no longer there.
The first 5-7 minutes, Harvard stunk the place out and couldn’t hit open shots and our defense was pretty decent. We couldn’t take advantage and our guys couldn’t hit a shot either but we had a very small lead. Then the unforced turnovers happened, we got even colder shooting, the defense faltered and Harvard started hitting many open shots- the kind of shots we can’t seem to make on our best night. The Harvard lead grew and grew into the rout.
If I knew how to do it, I’d start a GoFundMe to get $$$ to buy out Nelson’s contract because the only logical reason he’s still on the HC bench has to be Kit trying to save money.
And I don’t care if Nelson’s successor is the next John Wooden, by God he better put a cheap buy out clause in the contract. I come from an industry that if you don’t produce, you don’t get rewarded for not working and still get full pay. That’s just stupid!
Never thought I’d see the day that Sean Kearney would look good by comparison. 🤮
|
|
|
Post by alum on Dec 1, 2022 6:47:41 GMT -5
“My kids are not mature, they need to grow up, and I can’t find anyone that’s competitive.” Ya, real class act. 19-69 I’m not happy either and want BN gone today, but it would be fair to point out that his next sentence was that he had to do better as well.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Dec 1, 2022 6:49:01 GMT -5
I still plan on going to games when my eyes allow me to....I guess I'm just like a wildabeest that just instinctively follows the herd across a river infested with crocodiles. Best simile of the year, Animal Reference Division.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Dec 1, 2022 6:55:56 GMT -5
KenPom had us at #338 going into this game. Let’s see how far we fall after this debacle tonight Bart Torvik has an interesting ratings site and has us at #356 or 357 this morning. That is firmly in the bottom 10.
|
|