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Post by football44 on Dec 18, 2022 9:47:15 GMT -5
Realistically, games need to be scheduled years in advance. The rankings of teams can change dramatically during the interval. Next we'll have USNWR controlling athletic decisions of colleges as it does academic decisions.(Educational quality be damned.) So, picking OOC teams based on SOS is a bit of a crap shoot. Also, opposing teams may be good but will have little appeal among the HC faithful. It seems making decisions(academic & athletic)on the basis of pleasing others is a fool's errand. Too many are driven by the opinion of the other. It's a sign of weakness, a lack of confidence. The traditional PL, IL NE with an FBS is fine rather than worrying about scheduling "Kalamazoo" in the vain hope of pleasing others. Absolutely mm67. Had a chance to discuss our future schedule with folks on the hill. We have one opening in 27. Look for possible games in the future with the likes of Northwestern, Stanford and Wake Forest.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 18, 2022 10:13:42 GMT -5
Realistically, games need to be scheduled years in advance. The rankings of teams can change dramatically during the interval. Next we'll have USNWR controlling athletic decisions of colleges as it does academic decisions.(Educational quality be damned.) So, picking OOC teams based on SOS is a bit of a crap shoot. Also, opposing teams may be good but will have little appeal among the HC faithful. It seems making decisions(academic & athletic)on the basis of pleasing others is a fool's errand. Too many are driven by the opinion of the other. It's a sign of weakness, a lack of confidence. The traditional PL, IL NE with an FBS is fine rather than worrying about scheduling "Kalamazoo" in the vain hope of pleasing others. Absolutely mm67. Had a chance to discuss our future schedule with folks on the hill. We have one opening in 27. Look for possible games in the future with the likes of Northwestern, Stanford and Wake Forest. Good. I realize I may have inadvertently stepped on toes. Mine was a nuanced position. Obviously, there is some awareness of reputation & ranking. But I don't believe HC(or I) should allow the opinion of others to be the determinant of our choices. A poster gave examples of football games with OOC opponents which he thought would be interesting. Games that are of interest to HC stakeholders would be a fine guide for the school tp follow. Certainly, FBS games against Northwestern, Stanford and Wake Forest as well as BC & Army(and the service academies) would be FBS games which would interest many HC folks. Thanks again 44 after all these years you are still contributing to alma mater.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 18, 2022 10:15:31 GMT -5
Yale finished 8-2, tied for Ivy champs; finished #30 in Massey rankings. Playing and defeating them helped our SoS and receiving a top 8 seed. Agreed. Yale got a lot better as the season went on. After our game, Grooms looked like he'd be lucky to hold onto the starting QB job at Yale...and he goes on to finish 1st Team all Ivy at QB, and I think Ivy Offensive POY as well. As others noted in September, it’s a HUGE advantage to play them their first game (and our 3rd). And yes, after they shook the rust out they were a strong Ivy team. Loved the way they beat a good Princeton (and robbed undergraduate Princetonians of their traditional bonfire when they beat H and Y the same year). We should do that each year we beat PL rivals Lehigh and Laffy.😆Or a year we beat Georgetown, Fordham, and BC.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 18, 2022 11:14:01 GMT -5
Agreed. Yale got a lot better as the season went on. After our game, Grooms looked like he'd be lucky to hold onto the starting QB job at Yale...and he goes on to finish 1st Team all Ivy at QB, and I think Ivy Offensive POY as well. As others noted in September, it’s a HUGE advantage to play them their first game (and our 3rd). And yes, after they shook the rust out they were a strong Ivy team. Loved the way they beat a good Princeton (and robbed undergraduate Princetonians of their traditional bonfire when they beat H and Y the same year). We should do that each year we beat PL rivals Lehigh and Laffy.😆Or a year we beat Georgetown, Fordham, and BC. Definitely was a factor when we beat Harvard in Worcester 3 straight times in 07, 09 and 11. IIRC Harvard went on to go 9-1 and Ivy champs 2 of those 3 seasons.
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Post by bartoburger on Dec 18, 2022 11:17:35 GMT -5
I know there needs to be an invite but HC belongs in the CAA for football or all sports if that is a sticking point. Makes sense for travel and exposure. Sooner or later I believe the entire CAA will go FBS as there is too much money on the table for them to stay at the FCS level. HC should also be playing UMass, UConn, or BC every year as southern New England needs these programs need each other when it comes to sustaining local interest.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 18, 2022 11:41:32 GMT -5
I know there needs to be an invite but HC belongs in the CAA for football or all sports if that is a sticking point. Makes sense for travel and exposure. Sooner or later I believe the entire CAA will go FBS as there is too much money on the table for them to stay at the FCS level. HC should also be playing UMass, UConn, or BC every year as southern New England needs these programs need each other when it comes to sustaining local interest. Ok, I'll bite. If TPTB at Holy Cross had even a little bit of interest in looking into CAA membership, they missed the boat bigly. The CAA just completed a robust round of expansion which will give the league 14 all-sports members and 15 football members for the 2023-2024 academic year.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 18, 2022 12:24:40 GMT -5
Holy Cross is a small New England liberal arts college It has enrollment of 3, 000, approx. No graduate school. HC is one of the smallest schools in Div I. Larger universities have more resources with larger budgets and are able to admit students from a wider spectrum. HC belongs in the PL with similar colleges(referring to the football schools) Why not appreciate all that Holy Cross has accomplished? My Gosh, man, we should be extremely proud of all that our beloved has accomplished. Rehashing the obvious serves no useful purpose.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 18, 2022 12:35:17 GMT -5
Holy Cross is a small New England liberal arts college It has enrollment of 3, 000, approx. No graduate school. HC is one of the smallest schools in Div I. Larger universities have more resources with larger budgets and are able to admit students from a wider spectrum. HC belongs in the PL with similar colleges(referring to the football schools) Why not appreciate all that Holy Cross has accomplished? My Gosh, man, we should be extremely proud of all that our beloved has accomplished. Rehashing the obvious serves no useful purpose. This is 100% correct.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 18, 2022 12:50:57 GMT -5
Much of this gets rehashed because we have little else to discuss until players sign and basketball is winning. Whether we want to play in the PL/CAA or some other league likely will continue until there isn't a need because of decisions taken by the President and Board
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 18, 2022 13:11:22 GMT -5
Much of this gets rehashed because we have little else to discuss until players sign and basketball is winning. Whether we want to play in the PL/CAA or some other league likely will continue until there isn't a need because of decisions taken by the President and Board The President and Board are in the mm67 camp. Nycru would put himself there as well.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 18, 2022 13:30:45 GMT -5
We're known by the company we keep. Honored by being in the company of VR & the Board or maybe they should be honored.HA!!!
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Post by hc87 on Dec 18, 2022 13:37:19 GMT -5
If we can get a more standard red-shirt policy in place i.e. not relying on a pandemic or a player's injury to get a 5th year of eligibility and get the schollies up to 63 from 60, there really is no reason to leave the PL for football. We witnessed this year that we can be a Top 5 program in the country if we are allowed to do these things.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 18, 2022 14:10:58 GMT -5
If we can get a more standard red-shirt policy in place i.e. not relying on a pandemic or a player's injury to get a 5th year of eligibility and get the schollies up to 63 from 60, there really is no reason to leave the PL for football. We witnessed this year that we can be a Top 5 program in the country if we are allowed to do these things. Agreed. The non-medical redshirt is key. Not that we still wouldn't have a disadvantage as a liberal arts school but it would be a step towards the league being more competitive in the postseason overall. After their loss to Montana State, I overheard a lot of hotel lobby talk about William & Mary players coming back for SIXTH years next fall. Continue competing for a national title while getting an MBA? Why not!
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Post by efg72 on Dec 18, 2022 14:13:45 GMT -5
My point was when you have nothing more to discuss topics get rehashed- look at radio and tv talk shows, news stories, op-Ed’s
In the end this is an opinion board and unless we have some secret agents on this board, nobody here is going to make the decision about Holy Cross whether it is about admissions, the curriculum, athletics, or spirituality. We can express our opinions here and to those who make the decisions, but we don't get to vote
Regardless of any potential future decisions, there are many issues around scholarships, coaches pay, number of varsity teams we offer, redshirt/5th year, CAF/Momentum and a number of others raised on this board and by coaches that need to be addressed asap, especially before decisions are made about hiring coaches for other sports. And of course what happens if or when the PL says no to possible changes we push or adopt?
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 18, 2022 21:23:15 GMT -5
We should not play Merrimack, Stonehill or Bryant. It hurts the SOS and the fans could care less. I'm actually a big proponent of ginning up a nice little Catholic in-state rivalry with Merrimack across all sports. I like playing them for a lot of reasons: 1) We both sponsor a wide portfolio of sports, including FCS football, M/W hockey, Lax, Baseball, Soccer 2) Merrimack consistently exhibited across the board athletic excellence while in D2. I see them becoming a power in the NEC. 3) Unlike BC and BU, they've scheduled us pretty regularly in hockey 4) The Turnpike Trophy rivalry stinks. Nobody cares. Only sport BU fans care about is the one sport they don't play us, at least on the Men's side. 5) Fans seem to show up to Merrimack games. Friday night opener against Holy Cross drew like 9,000 this past Labor Day Weekend. I'm in for that. Stonehill though, yawn. Bryant -- meh, but like Merrimack they absolutely have shown a commitment to putting competitive teams at the DI level in both basketball and football. And they've been a power in lacrosse ever since they got the coach from Duke 15 years ago. Pressler left Bryant after last season to go coach high school lacrosse in Texas. www.usalaxmagazine.com/high-school/boys/mike-pressler-named-head-coach-at-highland-park-texas
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 18, 2022 23:42:12 GMT -5
HC belongs in the PL with similar colleges(referring to the football schools) Why not appreciate all that Holy Cross has accomplished? My Gosh, man, we should be extremely proud of all that our beloved has accomplished. Rehashing the obvious serves no useful purpose. The PL may become a short timer. I'm losing faith that Fordham and Georgetown will be a good fit moving forward, and for much different reasons. Also at some point, Bucknell will have to fish or cut bait with the conference in football. That said, there are no candidates who will join moving forward.
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Post by mm67 on Dec 18, 2022 23:53:54 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what?
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 19, 2022 3:35:01 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what? It's hard to imagine Bucknell dropping football and offering a less than full premium college experience for the premium tuition they (and the other PL schools) charge. UVM, B.U., Northeastern all dropped football but the undergraduate student experience is a smaller part of the overall picture at those three large Universities. Maybe I'm overestimating it, but PL schools are fighting against demographic, economic and societal trends and my sense is they have little room to voluntarily lessen the four year undergraduate experience they offer, such as dropping any sports.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 19, 2022 7:32:37 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what? Fordham not leaving the A-10 anytime too soon. They're still pretty optimistic with this other new coach after Neptune left. For now, anyway. CAA has 15 football members now so safe to say the league is not looking to add football-only affiliates at this point. If Fordham was angling to make a football move over there, the time to do so was 2011.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 19, 2022 7:35:33 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what? It's hard to imagine Bucknell dropping football and offering a less than full premium college experience for the premium tuition they (and the other PL schools) charge. UVM, B.U., Northeastern all dropped football but the undergraduate student experience is a smaller part of the overall picture at those three large Universities. Maybe I'm overestimating it, but PL schools are fighting against demographic, economic and societal trends and my sense is they have little room to voluntarily lessen the four year undergraduate experience they offer, such as dropping any sports. UVM and BU dropping football -- definitely a cultural thing. Vermont dropped the sport almost 50 years ago at this point, totally different era.
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Post by trimster on Dec 19, 2022 9:11:09 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what? GU should make the move to another PL, the Pioneer League. I believe it is a non-scholarship league.
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Post by trimster on Dec 19, 2022 9:13:37 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what? GU should make the move to another PL, the Pioneer League. I believe it is a non-scholarship league. The other PL has 11 members. Might as well top it off at 12.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 19, 2022 9:18:23 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what? GU should make the move to another PL, the Pioneer League. I believe it is a non-scholarship league. Georgetown has no interest in the Pioneer modelo.
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Post by classof83 on Dec 19, 2022 9:39:41 GMT -5
Where is Georgetown football headed? Do you expect FU to make a move to the CAA? Colgate, HC, Lafayette & Lehigh, the core four? Then what? GU should make the move to another PL, the Pioneer League. I believe it is a non-scholarship league. I know someone pretty close to the Georgetown Football program. From what he tells me, the cost of the need-based scholarships that Georgetown provides is really no different than the non need-based scholarships that the other PL schools provide, Georgetown's need-based scholarship model, however, puts them at a recruiting disadvantage compared to the other Patriot League schools. According to what my friend tells me, the difference between Georgetown's football spending and spending of the other PL schools is really only about $300k/yr for "operating expenses"(coaching salaries, etc.) There is a group of Georgetown football supporters who are trying to raise the money to create an endowment to cover the annual shortfall. He has admitted, however, that they are getting a lukewarm response from the Georgetown administration. He does admit that Georgetown just can't compete under the current framework - the option of going to the Pioneer League is not really a desirable option. As bad as Georgetown was this year, he has said that Georgetown will be worse next year - they are going to lose a lot of players to graduation.
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Post by cruskater31 on Dec 19, 2022 11:35:03 GMT -5
Sometimes I think people mistake the CAA or another conference for the ACC! Now if I suggested bringing the FBS to Ches and seeking an invite from the ACC I can understand hard push back. (Unless of course we get someone to endow a $500 million program or something).
I think we all agree we would not like to see academics compromised *that* much. I hate to say it but the PL is fine for now. They do not help out academic reputation or our SoS in any sport. The Flutie Factor is probably happening right now at HC and it isn't because of liberal arts or what flag is flying outside of whatever building. It is our investment in facilities (Prior, Luth, Jo, Smith Labs, etc. and the name recognition we are getting across the country. I wish we joined the CAA. Who knows what will happen when there is a P2 or P3 in FBS, other prime FCS programs moving up, etc? Maybe there will be a "P5" FCS conference in the East. PL will be playing against the Nescacs. Who knows?
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