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Post by longsuffering on Dec 19, 2022 11:57:21 GMT -5
Sometimes I think people mistake the CAA or another conference for the ACC! Now if I suggested bringing the FBS to Ches and seeking an invite from the ACC I can understand hard push back. (Unless of course we get someone to endow a $500 million program or something). I think we all agree we would not like to see academics compromised *that* much. I hate to say it but the PL is fine for now. They do not help out academic reputation or our SoS in any sport. The Flutie Factor is probably happening right now at HC and it isn't because of liberal arts or what flag is flying outside of whatever building. It is our investment in facilities (Prior, Luth, Jo, Smith Labs, etc. and the name recognition we are getting across the country. I wish we joined the CAA. Who knows what will happen when there is a P2 or P3 in FBS, other prime FCS programs moving up, etc? Maybe there will be a "P5" FCS conference in the East. PL will be playing against the Nescacs. Who knows? We are enjoying a Flutie Factor on decaf due to the difference in FCS and FBS impact on the public, but the football success has to have positive benefit for HC. One auto bid for seven teams (PL) vs one auto bid for fifteen teams (CAA) is a compelling case for the PL. Not becoming one of the too many carpet bagging league hopper schools is another factor.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 19, 2022 12:01:24 GMT -5
This new experience for Holy Cross Athletics came at the right time for the Administration and the Admissions Office as they execute a new plan for the future.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 19, 2022 12:04:42 GMT -5
Sometimes I think people mistake the CAA or another conference for the ACC! Now if I suggested bringing the FBS to Ches and seeking an invite from the ACC I can understand hard push back. (Unless of course we get someone to endow a $500 million program or something). I think we all agree we would not like to see academics compromised *that* much. I hate to say it but the PL is fine for now. They do not help out academic reputation or our SoS in any sport. The Flutie Factor is probably happening right now at HC and it isn't because of liberal arts or what flag is flying outside of whatever building. It is our investment in facilities (Prior, Luth, Jo, Smith Labs, etc. and the name recognition we are getting across the country. I wish we joined the CAA. Who knows what will happen when there is a P2 or P3 in FBS, other prime FCS programs moving up, etc? Maybe there will be a "P5" FCS conference in the East. PL will be playing against the Nescacs. Who knows? We are enjoying a Flutie Factor on decaf due to the difference in FCS and FBS impact on the public, but the football success has to have positive benefit for HC. No doubt BC is forever grateful Flutie chose BC over Harvard. And it is also true that BC’s academic reputation and popularity really took off in the 80’s. How much this sustained 40-years of reputation and popularity (v HC, for example) have to do with Flutie has been a source of great debate. No doubt many other factors are involved. Some speak of a ‘Ewing Effect’ at Georgetown.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 19, 2022 14:04:15 GMT -5
No doubt BC is forever grateful Flutie chose BC over Harvard. And it is also true that BC’s academic reputation and popularity really took off in the 80’s. How much this sustained 40-years of reputation and popularity (v HC, for example) have to do with Flutie has been a source of great debate. No doubt many other factors are involved. Some speak of a ‘Ewing Effect’ at Georgetown. There was no Ewing effect at Georgetown nor a comparable dropoff in applications after he left and as basketball declined. It was Georgetown's decision to commit to need-blind and full-need aid in 1978 that opened the door to a set of high performing students that did not or would not have even considered Georgetown before and that's where the admissions began to move forward. Getting into the US News Top 25 in the second year of that survey also realigned its application base, because kids weren't applying to Georgetown alongside Fordham or St. Joe's or BC anymore, but Duke, Penn, and Virginia (GU's three largest "crossover" schools in applications). It has largely continued to this day.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 19, 2022 15:25:13 GMT -5
"Flutie Effect" is a total myth IMO.
If such a phenomenon existed, wouldn't Gonzaga be the equivalent of USC or Northwestern as far as admission goes, by now? And wouldn't Marquette and Creighton be more competitive than Holy Cross?
Zero shot that the average applicant is even a little bit influenced by success in FCS football. Imagine this conversation at Christmas dinner:
Grandma: "So Ethan, what schools have you heard back from? I'm so excited to hear about all your college visits this past fall!"
Ethan: "Well, I got deferred early action at UVa. and Notre Dame but I finished the Common App and have already heard back from a few schools. Got into the College Park campus at Penn State, which has rolling admissions. So I'm officially in college! Also waiting to hear back from Holy Cross, Villanova, BC, Fairfield, Incarnate Word, North Dakota State, Delaware, Samford and Sacramento State. That rounds up my top choices! I also have as my safeties St. Francis (PA) and Gardner-Webb. Dad and I also took the tour at Weber State but we were a little freaked out by the whole Mormon thing."
Grandma: "Have you been applying for any scholarships?"
Ethan: "Well, yes. I'm actually hoping to get some academic aid from South Dakota State which I applied to early decision and am still waiting on. They have a great internship program with Daktronics. Getting into that would be so cool!"
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Post by crusader1970 on Dec 19, 2022 15:46:40 GMT -5
"Flutie Effect" is a total myth IMO. If such a phenomenon existed, wouldn't Gonzaga be the equivalent of USC or Northwestern as far as admission goes, by now? And wouldn't Marquette and Creighton be more competitive than Holy Cross? Zero shot that the average applicant is even a little bit influenced by success in FCS football. Imagine this conversation at Christmas dinner: Grandma: "So Ethan, what schools have you heard back from? I'm so excited to hear about all your college visits this past fall!" Ethan: "Well, I got deferred early action at UVa. and Notre Dame but I finished the Common App and have already heard back from a few schools. Got into the College Park campus at Penn State, which has rolling admissions. So I'm officially in college! Also waiting to hear back from Holy Cross, Villanova, BC, Fairfield, Incarnate Word, North Dakota State, Delaware, Samford and Sacramento State. That rounds up my top choices! I also have as my safeties St. Francis (PA) and Gardner-Webb. Dad and I also took the tour at Weber State but we were a little freaked out by the whole Mormon thing." Grandma: "Have you been applying for any scholarships?" Ethan: "Well, yes. I'm actually hoping to get some academic aid from South Dakota State which I applied to early decision and am still waiting on. They have a great internship program with Daktronics. Getting into that would be so cool!" Grandma: "Ethan, if you are correct and applied EARLY DECISION to South Dakota St, aren't you required to go there if accepted."
Ethan: "Sorry, Grandma, I meant EARLY ACTION."
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 19, 2022 15:51:34 GMT -5
Grandma: "Have you not considered UNH? Your cousin Jacob seems to love it there."
Ethan: "I thought going to UNH would be a lot of fun, especially the tailgating in the fall. I heard they get massive crowds for soccer games, especially when they play archrival Vermont. But I was a little disappointed in the football team losing in the second round of the playoffs against the Patriot League. Literally, you'd have thought Marist showed up wearing Wildcat jerseys the way Holy Cross pounded them. So I decided to withdraw my application."
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 19, 2022 16:30:54 GMT -5
No doubt BC is forever grateful Flutie chose BC over Harvard. And it is also true that BC’s academic reputation and popularity really took off in the 80’s. How much this sustained 40-years of reputation and popularity (v HC, for example) have to do with Flutie has been a source of great debate. No doubt many other factors are involved. Some speak of a ‘Ewing Effect’ at Georgetown. There was no Ewing effect at Georgetown nor a comparable dropoff in applications after he left and as basketball declined. It was Georgetown's decision to commit to need-blind and full-need aid in 1978 that opened the door to a set of high performing students that did not or would not have even considered Georgetown before and that's where the admissions began to move forward. Getting into the US News Top 25 in the second year of that survey also realigned its application base, because kids weren't applying to Georgetown alongside Fordham or St. Joe's or BC anymore, but Duke, Penn, and Virginia (GU's three largest "crossover" schools in applications). It has largely continued to this day. GU being included in the Varsity Blues Case set of schools confirmed their elite status. You don't pay a bribe to get into a non-elite school.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 19, 2022 19:21:58 GMT -5
No doubt BC is forever grateful Flutie chose BC over Harvard. And it is also true that BC’s academic reputation and popularity really took off in the 80’s. How much this sustained 40-years of reputation and popularity (v HC, for example) have to do with Flutie has been a source of great debate. No doubt many other factors are involved. Some speak of a ‘Ewing Effect’ at Georgetown. There was no Ewing effect at Georgetown nor a comparable dropoff in applications after he left and as basketball declined. It was Georgetown's decision to commit to need-blind and full-need aid in 1978 that opened the door to a set of high performing students that did not or would not have even considered Georgetown before and that's where the admissions began to move forward. Getting into the US News Top 25 in the second year of that survey also realigned its application base, because kids weren't applying to Georgetown alongside Fordham or St. Joe's or BC anymore, but Duke, Penn, and Virginia (GU's three largest "crossover" schools in applications). It has largely continued to this day. I think folks have made the argument that all the national headlines and prime time network TV generated by Ewing/Georgetown/Big East in the early 80’s helped put their name on a national level and brought in greater interest and applications (no suggestions of single causality). The Flutie Effect could alternatively be called The Ewing Effect (as opposed to The Ewing Theory). Between 1983 and ’86, applications to Georgetown University increased by 45%. The dominance of the men’s basketball team during this time period is regarded as a key factor. Patrick Ewing leading the Hoyas to a national title in 1984 highlighted what is known as the golden age of Hoya hoops. The institutional benefits would last for decades: Georgetown has become extremely selective in admissions and is now rankedby U.S. World and Report as the 20th-best national university in the U.S. There are, of course, many other factors for Georgetown becoming as selective as an Ivy League school. Still, the popularity of the Hoyas gave the institution new attention and a powerful recruiting tool with high school students.www.si.com/.amp/college/2018/03/17/umbc-virginia-upset-doug-flutie-jairus-lyles
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Post by efg72 on Dec 19, 2022 19:40:28 GMT -5
Georgetown is a global institution because of the changes it made in the early 70s
Ask the head of admissions Charlie Deacon or the President Jack DiGoia and they will be very direct
They say the growth of Georgetown started with the work of AD Frank Rienzo (RIP) my former neighbor and friend, and the acceptance of upgrading hoops with John Thompson
They never looked back
They also fully accepted Frank’s decision on what Gtown was willing to invest for football, unless they would commit to FBS - his preference
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 19, 2022 20:34:24 GMT -5
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Post by hcgrad94 on Dec 19, 2022 20:38:48 GMT -5
Gonzaga accepts 73% of the kids who apply.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 19, 2022 20:44:12 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 19, 2022 20:48:54 GMT -5
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 19, 2022 20:52:04 GMT -5
Gonzaga accepts 73% of the kids who apply. 11% better than UNH’s 85%.
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 19, 2022 20:54:45 GMT -5
Gonzaga accepts 73% of the kids who apply. 11% better than UNH’s 85%. Comparing the least funded state school in the ENTIRE nation to a private jesuit school in Spokane, Washington. Apples to Oranges.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 19, 2022 21:30:07 GMT -5
Georgetown is a global institution because of the changes it made in the early 70s Ask the head of admissions Charlie Deacon or the President Jack DiGoia and they will be very direct They say the growth of Georgetown started with the work of AD Frank Rienzo (RIP) my former neighbor and friend, and the acceptance of upgrading hoops with John Thompson They never looked back They also fully accepted Frank’s decision on what Gtown was willing to invest for football, unless they would commit to FBS - his preference What FBS league would they be in today?
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Post by mm67 on Dec 19, 2022 22:30:40 GMT -5
Ewing Effect? I can vouch although there was great improvement there was no NBA championship Ewing Effect for the Knicks. Any other franchise with Ewing would have found a way to dethrone the MJ led Bulls at least once. The Knicks proved the Ewing Effect can only go so far. Imagine the Celtics.... Oh, forget it.
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Post by hc1998 on Dec 19, 2022 22:49:00 GMT -5
Ewing Effect? I can vouch although there was great improvement there was no NBA championship Ewing Effect for the Knicks. Any other franchise with Ewing would have found a way to dethrone the MJ led Bulls at least once. The Knicks proved the Ewing Effect can only go so far. Imagine the Celtics.... Oh, forget it. The Ewing Effect speaks to his impact on Georgetown, if we are talking his NBA impact I refer you to our brother alumnus, Simmons, William and his learned treatise on the "Ewing Theory"...it is the exact opposite of what you propose it should be. Edit: Actually, I apologize, the Ewing Theory was popularized by Mr. Simmons, but not formulated by him: www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/010509a
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Post by crusader12 on Dec 20, 2022 8:24:45 GMT -5
Can anyone give me some insight into tailgate passes at Chestnut Hill. In 2018 it was a freaking nightmare parking there under a tree next to the garage. Will probably be hosting a 50+ person tailgate and want to be close to stadium and in a decent lot. BC makes nothing easy but I shouldn't be surprised, its not a good place....Thank you in advance!
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 20, 2022 8:32:01 GMT -5
Georgetown is a global institution because of the changes it made in the early 70s Ask the head of admissions Charlie Deacon or the President Jack DiGoia and they will be very direct They say the growth of Georgetown started with the work of AD Frank Rienzo (RIP) my former neighbor and friend, and the acceptance of upgrading hoops with John Thompson They never looked back They also fully accepted Frank’s decision on what Gtown was willing to invest for football, unless they would commit to FBS - his preference What FBS league would they be in today? In the alterior universe where Georgetown has a football team competing at the level of similar private universities like BC, Northwestern, Duke and Stanford, they'd be in the ACC now and would likely play their games in RFK if its still standing.
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Post by HC92 on Dec 20, 2022 8:38:29 GMT -5
What FBS league would they be in today? In the alterior universe where Georgetown has a football team competing at the level of similar private universities like BC, Northwestern, Duke and Stanford, they'd be in the ACC now and would likely play their games in RFK if its still standing. Scheduled to be demolished in 2023. Might have been spared if Georgetown was playing ACC football there.
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Post by efg72 on Dec 20, 2022 8:50:35 GMT -5
Georgetown is a global institution because of the changes it made in the early 70s Ask the head of admissions Charlie Deacon or the President Jack DiGoia and they will be very direct They say the growth of Georgetown started with the work of AD Frank Rienzo (RIP) my former neighbor and friend, and the acceptance of upgrading hoops with John Thompson They never looked back They also fully accepted Frank’s decision on what Gtown was willing to invest for football, unless they would commit to FBS - his preference clarification Frank thought the FCS was the only viable option, but there was a strong alumni base pushing for a return to football at the highest level and would be willing to find a way to finance it. That is the part Frank supported, albeit he wanted it fully funded in advance with protections the school would do it right. In the end Frank felt the only realistic approach for Georgetown was to start with FCS and see what happens- stay in FCS, move to another level or eventually drop football
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Post by Ignutz on Dec 20, 2022 10:10:17 GMT -5
Gonzaga accepts 73% of the kids who apply. 11% better than UNH’s 85%. So you're saying that you weren't a math major.
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necfbfan
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 78
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Post by necfbfan on Dec 24, 2022 10:28:11 GMT -5
The 2023 schedule is lovely. Not one, but TWO opportunities to take down FBS competition. Including an intrastate P5 and a service academy on Veteran's Day. What more could you ask for? No doubt it will be a challenge, but if Holy Cross wins both games, they will not only be seeded, but seeded in the Top 4 as well. The BC game is an excellent opportunity for exposure. I also don't think there's a problem with playing Harvard and Yale. They're usually at the top of their conference and they're esteemed schools. If you wanted to argue that you should sub one of those teams for a top tier CAA opponent I could see it, but the counter-argument is that HC already plays two FBS teams this year, the schedule is plenty hard.
One nugget that hasn't been addressed: Holy Cross is scheduled to start the season off with Merrimack before taking on BC in Week 2. I know Merrimack is surging in the NEC and BC just had a disastrous year, but still, going from playing D2 recruits to P5 recruits is a helluva turnaround early on in the year. Coach Chen will need to have em well-oiled and running from the get. Honestly looking forward to this game a great deal.
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