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Post by WCHC Sports on Feb 27, 2023 10:09:27 GMT -5
No thanks, not interested in a former Bucknell coach. Bucknell will be looking, he can go back Wait, seriously? Just because he coached at Bucknell? This reads like a 12 year old Red Sox fan not wanting to sign a good player just because he used to play for the Yankees. Hey, I'm 37 now.
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Post by cfrivals on Feb 27, 2023 12:21:00 GMT -5
Need to spend on this hire! Need a name who can turn this mess upside down. If older, needs to bring a quality assistant who can take the reins in a couple years. Hopefully KH still has RP’s cell.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 28, 2023 0:11:51 GMT -5
Interesting name floated by @thecp_hoops (who may or may not actually know anything) about the potential opening at Bill & Mary — Christian Webster.
Played at Harvard, from DC, has coached under Buzz Williams & Mike Young — two guys who know how to build winning programs.
I hope his time on D1 benches is not seen as too big of a negative for the Crossports Coaching Committee (CCC).
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 28, 2023 3:18:27 GMT -5
Interesting name floated by @thecp_hoops (who may or may not actually know anything) about the potential opening at Bill & Mary — Christian Webster. Played at Harvard, from DC, has coached under Buzz Williams & Mike Young — two guys who know how to build winning programs. I hope his time on D1 benches is not seen as too big of a negative for the Crossports Coaching Committee (CCC). The CCC.😂. You aren't hoping to pull another fish out of the same pond we landed SK and BN from are you? To me, show me the winning programs you built/turned around or be gone. I think people might be underestimating how tough it is to win at HC and to construct and sustain a roster that works here. It's no place for OJT.
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Post by hcmawfawo on Feb 28, 2023 5:44:50 GMT -5
One perspective to consider as difficult as it may be: which program is most deserving of benefitting from the OJT opportunity provided over the past few years? Should not HC profit from its considerable investment of time, money and resources? Different sport and circumstances — but how much salt was poured into Art Modell’s wounds by Robert Kraft benefiting from the OJT that Modell provided to BB? Of the top opinions expressed about HCBN in the “”Ovah” thread several have to do with no head coaching experience, no PL experience, etc. Giving the particular marketplace for head coaches in 2023 with many buyers lining up — and a thin supply of those deemed qualified by the CCC — one option would be to hold firm. As previously stated that would be inexplicable to many — including those who do not forgive the original sin of the initial hiring and those who have tried to exercise patience but have reached their limits. Certainly would be a challenge for sales of season ticket presale packages. Not sure which path HC will go — and trust those involved to make the right call for HC at this time given their access to full information and options. Presume KH learned long ago of the impossibility of appeasing all the people all the time. GoCrossGo
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Post by timholycross on Feb 28, 2023 6:49:09 GMT -5
One perspective to consider as difficult as it may be: which program is most deserving of benefitting from the OJT opportunity provided over the past few years? Should not HC profit from its considerable investment of time, money and resources? Different sport and circumstances — but how much salt was poured into Art Modell’s wounds by Robert Kraft benefiting from the OJT that Modell provided to BB? Of the top opinions expressed about HCBN in the “”Ovah” thread several have to do with no head coaching experience, no PL experience, etc. Giving the particular marketplace for head coaches in 2023 with many buyers lining up — and a thin supply of those deemed qualified by the CCC — one option would be to hold firm. As previously stated that would be inexplicable to many — including those who do not forgive the original sin of the initial hiring and those who have tried to exercise patience but have reached their limits. Certainly would be a challenge for sales of season ticket presale packages. Not sure which path HC will go — and trust those involved to make the right call for HC at this time given their access to full information and options. Presume KH learned long ago of the impossibility of appeasing all the people all the time. GoCrossGo Here's my thoughts on that: For every Bill Belichick there is a Dan Henning. Coach from around the same era who had two head coaching shots in the NFL and one at BC. Failed miserably at all 3 stops. Went back to the Jets (and maybe others) as an OC and did just fine in that position, just like he did before he was a head coach. Some great minds in a particular sport simply aren't head coaches.
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Post by trimster on Feb 28, 2023 7:37:39 GMT -5
Former WPI star Ryan Cain has Keene State ranked 5th in the nation in D3 with a gaudy 25-1 record. He has been there since 2016 and has had consistently good teams. He had one dud year in the middle but has won 19+ games in every other full season. This is the perfect candidate for HC. Local guy (I think Sutton or Northbridge), played at St. John's Shrewsbury and starred at WPI. No more talk of retreads. No more talk of Ivy/PL guys. No more talk of being familiar with HC. Get a young guy in here that can coach and recruit. Period. If it flops, try again. Can't get any worse than it is now. A mention of Cain in a Telegram article says he grew up in Webster.
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Post by hcmawfawo on Feb 28, 2023 7:52:18 GMT -5
This is the perfect candidate for HC. Local guy (I think Sutton or Northbridge), played at St. John's Shrewsbury and starred at WPI. No more talk of retreads. No more talk of Ivy/PL guys. No more talk of being familiar with HC. Get a young guy in here that can coach and recruit. Period. If it flops, try again. Can't get any worse than it is now. A mention of Cain in a Telegram article says he grew up in Webster.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 28, 2023 7:55:36 GMT -5
I would eliminate from consideration anyone who has never won a game as a head coach aT any level. Hoping this gets me on the board of the CCC. Willing to consider a wide cross-section of candidates who have won consistently at a college program, regardless of level. It’s just too tough of a job right now to take a chance on someone who has never led a program before. There are certainly great coaches out there just waiting for their first chance to lead. But I’ll take someone with a track record of success who can point to that when he’s in a living room trying to convince a kid and his parents coming months that the kid is going to win a lot of games if he comes to HC. In terms of running a program, MB was by far our best coach since Willard. Talented kids came, they went to class, they stayed at HC. I know the portal makes a difference but he knew how to be a head basketball coach the day he arrived, even if we didn’t love all the coaching decisions and his teams were generally middle-of-the-pack-ish. Right now, middle-of-the-pack sounds magical.
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Post by crusader1970 on Feb 28, 2023 8:01:50 GMT -5
With the right hire and a little help (2) from the Transfer Portal, I truly believe that HC could be over .500 overall and contending for a PL title next season.
Very excited to see where Kit goes with this.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 28, 2023 8:07:41 GMT -5
As for the “holding firm” option above, keep in mind these facts from someone who has been one of the most loyal (and vocal) fans of HC hoops for a long time.
1. This is the first year I did not attend a single game since Brian Reale was in uniform.
2. We did not get a single donation to men’s basketball during the recent day of giving.
3. We have had something like 16 kids leave the program in the last 4 years.
4. We have 3 OOC D1 wins in the Nelson era while not exactly playing tough OOC schedules.
It’s time.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 28, 2023 8:19:48 GMT -5
I would eliminate from consideration anyone who has never won a game as a head coach aT any level. Hoping this gets me on the board of the CCC. Willing to consider a wide cross-section of candidates who have won consistently at a college program, regardless of level. It’s just too tough of a job right now to take a chance on someone who has never led a program before. There are certainly great coaches out there just waiting for their first chance to lead. But I’ll take someone with a track record of success who can point to that when he’s in a living room trying to convince a kid and his parents coming months that the kid is going to win a lot of games if he comes to HC. In terms of running a program, MB was by far our best coach since Willard. Talented kids came, they went to class, they stayed at HC. I know the portal makes a difference but he knew how to be a head basketball coach the day he arrived, even if we didn’t love all the coaching decisions and his teams were generally middle-of-the-pack-ish. Right now, middle-of-the-pack sounds magical. I realize that they are Power 6 schools, but Kansas State and Arizona have done very well with long time, highly respected assistants. Not sure we should totally eliminate that category.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 28, 2023 8:28:35 GMT -5
I would eliminate from consideration anyone who has never won a game as a head coach aT any level. Hoping this gets me on the board of the CCC. Willing to consider a wide cross-section of candidates who have won consistently at a college program, regardless of level. It’s just too tough of a job right now to take a chance on someone who has never led a program before. There are certainly great coaches out there just waiting for their first chance to lead. But I’ll take someone with a track record of success who can point to that when he’s in a living room trying to convince a kid and his parents coming months that the kid is going to win a lot of games if he comes to HC. In terms of running a program, MB was by far our best coach since Willard. Talented kids came, they went to class, they stayed at HC. I know the portal makes a difference but he knew how to be a head basketball coach the day he arrived, even if we didn’t love all the coaching decisions and his teams were generally middle-of-the-pack-ish. Right now, middle-of-the-pack sounds magical. I realize that they are Power 6 schools, but Kansas State and Arizona have done very well with long time, highly respected assistants. Not sure we should totally eliminate that category. We are playing at the lowest level of D1 basketball and our program has been a dumpster fire for a long time. It’s a very tough place to win. Arizona has a long history of success on a national level and went to the NCAA tourney every year from 2013-18. Just very different starting points for a new head coach. A lifetime assistant may do great here. I just think the odds of getting us on the right track are much greater with someone who has done it before.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 28, 2023 8:35:36 GMT -5
And "holding firm" really doesn't mean that at all if, as is likely, this is the fourth year of Nelson's five-year contract. He can't recruit credibly unless you extend him.
This would be like going to a restaurant on four occasions and coming home with food poisoning every time. But instead of going somewhere else to eat, you go back to the same place because, what the hell, you haven't tried the clams casino yet, and it's just so hard to find a good place nowadays.
Enough.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 28, 2023 8:40:11 GMT -5
I would eliminate from consideration anyone who has never won a game as a head coach aT any level. No offense, but this is a foolish requirement that would do nothing but potentially disqualify our best candidate(s). FADDR made this foolish proclamation after letting SK go, and it cost us having the current head coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder. If Colgate had this requirement, they wouldn't have Matt Langel. Let's just hire the best candidate for the job, regardless of what his background is.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 28, 2023 8:45:11 GMT -5
Ironically, I feel like CBN might have done better if his first gig as a head coach was at a school from a power conference. That's just how he's wired.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 28, 2023 8:57:16 GMT -5
And "holding firm" really doesn't mean that at all if, as is likely, this is the fourth year of Nelson's five-year contract. He can't recruit credibly unless you extend him. This would be like going to a restaurant on four occasions and coming home with food poisoning every time. But instead of going somewhere else to eat, you go back to the same place because, what the hell, you haven't tried the clams casino yet, That did not go well for Joey Gallo
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 28, 2023 9:45:37 GMT -5
I would eliminate from consideration anyone who has never won a game as a head coach aT any level. No offense, but this is a foolish requirement that would do nothing but potentially disqualify our best candidate(s). FADDR made this foolish proclamation after letting SK go, and it cost us having the current head coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder. If Colgate had this requirement, they wouldn't have Matt Langel. Let's just hire the best candidate for the job, regardless of what his background is. Of course that's what we want to do. However, doesn't our experience, and that of other teams in other sports, tell us that the best candidate is much more likely to be a proven head coach rather than an assistant? You can continue to cite Daigneault and Langel again and again but that will not make Kearney and Nelson good choices. We want the next Bob Chesney, basketball version, not the next Charlie Weis.
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Post by hcmawfawo on Feb 28, 2023 9:55:09 GMT -5
One perspective to consider as difficult as it may be: which program is most deserving of benefitting from the OJT opportunity provided over the past few years? Should not HC profit from its considerable investment of time, money and resources? Different sport and circumstances — but how much salt was poured into Art Modell’s wounds by Robert Kraft benefiting from the OJT that Modell provided to BB? Of the top opinions expressed about HCBN in the “”Ovah” thread several have to do with no head coaching experience, no PL experience, etc. Giving the particular marketplace for head coaches in 2023 with many buyers lining up — and a thin supply of those deemed qualified by the CCC — one option would be to hold firm. As previously stated that would be inexplicable to many — including those who do not forgive the original sin of the initial hiring and those who have tried to exercise patience but have reached their limits. Certainly would be a challenge for sales of season ticket presale packages. Not sure which path HC will go — and trust those involved to make the right call for HC at this time given their access to full information and options. Presume KH learned long ago of the impossibility of appeasing all the people all the time. GoCrossGo Here's my thoughts on that: For every Bill Belichick there is a Dan Henning. Coach from around the same era who had two head coaching shots in the NFL and one at BC. Failed miserably at all 3 stops. Went back to the Jets (and maybe others) as an OC and did just fine in that position, just like he did before he was a head coach. Some great minds in a particular sport simply aren't head coaches. [Moving this previously posted comment here where it was intended to be posted] True. And to be clear don’t mean to imply HCBN is the next college bball version of BB (not even clear that current BB is the embodiment of past BB). As others have noted it can in fact get worse and HC needs to act not just decisively but thoughtfully given all available information — will need to live with the decision for a while.
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Post by crosspride on Feb 28, 2023 10:02:19 GMT -5
Any reason why D3 CoY, defending National Champion, who is 27-1 this year is not top of the list if the route we must go is D3? Josh Merkel, Randolph Macon. Better record as a HC than all the other guys often cited in this thread.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Feb 28, 2023 10:12:23 GMT -5
Guess he's on the list now. Prior to Randolph-Macon, he was at his alma mater (Salisbury), and was succeeded there by a fellow alum - Andy Sachs. At R-M, Merkel succeeded Nathan Davis, whose head is currently on the chopping block at Bucknell. So there's that, too.
It's a small world, after all.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 28, 2023 10:15:13 GMT -5
No offense, but this is a foolish requirement that would do nothing but potentially disqualify our best candidate(s). FADDR made this foolish proclamation after letting SK go, and it cost us having the current head coach of the Oklahoma City Thunder. If Colgate had this requirement, they wouldn't have Matt Langel. Let's just hire the best candidate for the job, regardless of what his background is. Of course that's what we want to do. However, doesn't our experience, and that of other teams in other sports, tell us that the best candidate is much more likely to be a proven head coach rather than an assistant? You can continue to cite Daigneault and Langel again and again but that will not make Kearney and Nelson good choices. We want the next Bob Chesney, basketball version, not the next Charlie Weis. No, no, no. Your biggest miscalculation here is that D1 pL basketball is equivalent to D1-AA pL football. Aside from the obvious that they're different sport with completely opposite roster makeups (5 starters from 13-man roster vs 22 starters from a 90-man roster), they compete at different levels (pL basketball is connected with high-major basketball in a way that pL football is not connected with 1-A football -- see Grandison playing at Illinois & Duke, for example), and draw from very different candidate pools. Then you also have the fact that we need our men's basketball coach to be a very skilled tactician (a la HOFRW), which is not as important for the head coach of our football team, who has coordinators who are more involved in the X's & O's (notice how the football team really took off when Chesney had the right guy in the OC job after some sub-par coaches the first few years?). I would consider Chesney to be a highly-skilled "CEO-type" program leader more than an X's & O's wizard. I would never put Milan Brown even close to the same class as Chesney, but he would also fit into that CEO profile (vs X's and O's) and we saw there was a clear ceiling on the program when our head coach was not capable of giving us an advantage in scheme.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 28, 2023 10:18:39 GMT -5
Any reason why D3 CoY, defending National Champion, who is 27-1 this year is not top of the list if the route we must go is D3? Josh Merkel, Randolph Macon. Better record as a HC than all the other guys often cited in this thread. This fascination with D3 is something. On one hand, the CCC is saying the next coach needs to have head coaching experience, but then on the other hand they're fascinated with guys who have never had to manage a scholarship cap and the transfer portal -- two factors that cannot be ignored in who we hire at HC. Recruiting scholarship players to the pL is very different than what these guys are doing in D3.
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Post by res on Feb 28, 2023 10:25:25 GMT -5
Guess he's on the list now. Prior to Randolph-Macon, he was at his alma mater (Salisbury), and was succeeded there by a fellow alum - Andy Sachs. At R-M, Merkel succeeded Nathan Davis, whose head is currently on the chopping block at Bucknell. So there's that, too.
It's a small world, after all.
Yes, I was just about to offer you guys Davis. Six years at Randolph-Macon. 141-39 overall, six NCAA tournaments including a Final 4 and an Elite 8. Inquire within.
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Post by trimster on Feb 28, 2023 10:33:26 GMT -5
Any reason why D3 CoY, defending National Champion, who is 27-1 this year is not top of the list if the route we must go is D3? Josh Merkel, Randolph Macon. Better record as a HC than all the other guys often in this thread. This fascination with D3 is something. On one hand, the CCC is saying the next coach needs to have head coaching experience, but then on the other hand they're fascinated with guys who have never had to manage a scholarship cap and the transfer portal -- two factors that cannot be ignored in who we hire at HC. Recruiting scholarship players to the pL is very different than what these guys are doing in D3. If I were a betting man, I would bet an astute head coach at the D3 level could figure out how to manage recruiting with schollies and the portal very quickly. Connecting with people and being a good x and o person are probably much more important. The latter two are applicable at any coaching level.
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