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Post by trimster on Mar 8, 2023 9:36:32 GMT -5
Interesting point. This kid reached out to a random player from 20 years ago with whom he had zero prior contact. A complete stranger. Maybe he did his homework and thinks this situation is similar to what Jared went through with Coach Raynor. Or maybe he learned somehow (like reading this board) that Jared is an outspoken former player who wants better for his program. Either way, always good to remember that players, parents, and recruits might be reading what we post He did not do his homework, and wasn’t prepared for my reaction, BUT he’s a kid, and he needs to know his alumni care about him and his success. You’re absolutely correct, I have sat in his chair, and it is traumatizing. Being a 19/20 year old kid having your coach tell you that you are “taking food off table for his kids”, is a brutal position to be in. I’m not saying that has been told to him, but it was to me, and after hanging up yesterday I have a feeling this might be the case. Manipulating your staff/kids is page one in the “Loser Handbook.” It is very unfair you were told that by someone with much more experience in life than you had at that age. I don’t think there are that many D1 college athletes who aren’t trying as hard as they can to win. Maybe I am being naive.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 8, 2023 9:37:05 GMT -5
Just remember: BN has two years left, it seems. Maybe we'll be winning games in March in 2025! Is that fact or speculation? We've heard that there was a COVID extension, but I read that as a rumor that someone heard. Maybe I misunderstood and it is fact. I think we have a tendency on this board to share rumor/speculation and over time that rumor/speculation becomes fact in our collective minds Ya'll tend to know better than I do. A lame duck coach will not be able to recruit rain from a storm cloud. That would be worse than extending him.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 8, 2023 9:45:01 GMT -5
Is that fact or speculation? We've heard that there was a COVID extension, but I read that as a rumor that someone heard. Maybe I misunderstood and it is fact. I think we have a tendency on this board to share rumor/speculation and over time that rumor/speculation becomes fact in our collective minds Ya'll tend to know better than I do. A lame duck coach will not be able to recruit rain from a storm cloud. That would be worse than extending him. Good point. We’ve had tremendous difficulties recruiting these last ten years or so. This would make it worse (if possible).
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Post by hc87 on Mar 8, 2023 9:49:10 GMT -5
I'm sorry for all involved, but it's the height of absurdity for Nelson to continue to coach/run this program.....everyone loses, Nelson included.
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Post by jkh67 on Mar 8, 2023 9:50:59 GMT -5
I can agree with you 100% in that regard. I hope in the coming season that the players on this team get to frequently taste winning and to make it a habit. We can all certainly agree with the sentiment. But the likelihood of meaningful improvement next year under the same coaching staff seems remote. Especially considering that the team's dominant force in recent years -- a true warrior if ever there was one -- will be gone. The reality is that Nelson has been a failure as a coach by the only metric that ultimately counts -- wins and losses. Given the depths to which HC men's basketball has sunk, the program desperately needs someone exceptional at the helm if there is to be any realistic hope of significant improvement in coming years. Not next week or next year, but right now. It's probably impossible to catch lightning in a barrel twice, but the meteoric rise of the football program over the past five years shows what can happen if you have the right guy at the helm. This is not a personal attack on Nelson. I've never met the man, but I expect he's a decent individual with a fine wife and family, just like most of the rest of us. But coaching is ultimately about results on the court and Nelson has come up short on some critical fronts. W's and Ls for sure, but also player recruitment and retention, and interaction with the Crusader community. You can't expect better results by continuing to do the same thing! And this is not about the players. I'm sure they're all doing the best that their God-given athletic talents permit and I can well understand the stress they may be feeling. In fact, it's a good sign if they are feeling stressed because it says to me that they care and are not simply punching a time clock If the decision is nevertheless to retain Nelson, it's also exasperating that neither Hughes nor anyone else in the College administration has so far felt any need to explain the decision publicly. Perhaps TPTB have concluded that Crusader Nation no longer cares about men's basketball. Aside, that is, from zealots like us Crossports mavens. And maybe that is in fact the reality these days. I hope not.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 8, 2023 9:57:37 GMT -5
If BN and agent are actively scrambling to find a graceful exit to a new assistant coach position and KH is waiting at their request in the hopes of saving one hundred to several hundred thousand dollars, that has some logic to it. Radio Silence if that's not the situation is more perplexing.
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Post by Ray on Mar 8, 2023 10:10:31 GMT -5
If BN and agent are actively scrambling to find a graceful exit to a new assistant coach position and KH is waiting at their request in the hopes of saving one hundred to several hundred thousand dollars, that has some logic to it. Radio Silence if that's not the situation is more perplexing. That can't be how this works. The assistant coaching carousel will spin well through April. We can't wait that long... and shouldn't need to. We can (and should already have) separation language in place that says Nelson can go find that job after he's fired, and the remainder of his contract will be defrayed accordingly. This isn't re-inventing the wheel.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 8, 2023 10:12:10 GMT -5
I just can’t envision Nelson making an announcement that he is giving up a head coach position to become an assistant at any school. This isn’t football where offensive coordinator at, say, Ohio State would be seen as a move up from head coach at Rhode Island
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Post by Tom on Mar 8, 2023 10:15:14 GMT -5
Interesting point. This kid reached out to a random player from 20 years ago with whom he had zero prior contact. A complete stranger. Maybe he did his homework and thinks this situation is similar to what Jared went through with Coach Raynor. Or maybe he learned somehow (like reading this board) that Jared is an outspoken former player who wants better for his program. Either way, always good to remember that players, parents, and recruits might be reading what we post He did not do his homework, and wasn’t prepared for my reaction, BUT he’s a kid, and he needs to know his alumni care about him and his success. You’re absolutely correct, I have sat in his chair, and it is traumatizing. Being a 19/20 year old kid having your coach tell you that you are “taking food off table for his kids”, is a brutal position to be in. I’m not saying that has been told to him, but it was to me, and after hanging up yesterday I have a feeling this might be the case. Manipulating your staff/kids is page one in the “Loser Handbook.” A thumbs up is not strong enough for the bold faced portion of the quote. More like a wicked like My opinion of Coach Raynor went down hill when I read that fourth sentence. Not exactly a Knute Rockne motivational speech. If you have the feeling something similar is being said to the current players, I might have to like the bold faced portion again
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Post by Ignutz on Mar 8, 2023 10:20:22 GMT -5
I just can’t envision Nelson making an announcement that he is giving up a head coach position to become an assistant at any school. This isn’t football where offensive coordinator at, say, Ohio State would be seen as a move up from head coach at Rhode Island How about RW leaving the hoop team to be an assistant with Ricky P at Louisville?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 8, 2023 10:22:11 GMT -5
Okay, I’ll offer another scenario to give just a feint glimmer of hope that there is a reason for this delay and that we might soon hear that the nightmare will soon be over. Kit went to VR and was told that fir $$ reasons we can’t whack Nelson. Influential and well-heeled alum, perhaps a former hoops player, tells Kit he will contribute $200,000 to buy out the contract. That’s not the full amount needed so this alum tells Kit “give me a week to make some calls. If I can raise $500,000 can you make the move?” So we now await the infusion of the last $$$ needed.
This may be an absurd scenario, but it’s no more absurd that keeping Brett Nelson in place and I’m grasping at straws now.
Keep working the phone!
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Post by rf1 on Mar 8, 2023 10:23:42 GMT -5
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 8, 2023 10:35:32 GMT -5
In a way, Army parting ways with Jimmy Allen hopefully ramps up the pressure on Kit to make a move here.
If Allen's performance at Army wasn't good enough for them, then surely what Nelson has done at HC can't be good enough for a fifth year.
As Kit once said: "I am keenly aware of how important basketball is on this campus."
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Post by crosspride on Mar 8, 2023 10:39:54 GMT -5
I hope you’re right SoV but Army has not had to buy out 3 coaches in the last 10 years, only to watch the next hire be worse. If Nelson was the first hire after RW left, as Allen was after Spiker left, he’d be gone already. Maybe even after last year. More complicated at HC.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Mar 8, 2023 10:42:06 GMT -5
In a way, Army parting ways with Jimmy Allen hopefully ramps up the pressure on Kit to make a move here. If Allen's performance at Army wasn't good enough for them, then surely what Nelson has done at HC can't be good enough for a fifth year. As Kit once said: "I am keenly aware of how important basketball is on this campus." I believe that he's "keenly aware of how important basketball is on this campus", but I also hope he's not keenly under orders not to fire BN.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 8, 2023 10:46:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry for all involved, but it's the height of absurdity for Nelson to continue to coach/run this program.....everyone loses, Nelson included. Glad you added that to the point you were making. 100% in agreement.
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Post by classof83 on Mar 8, 2023 11:07:04 GMT -5
This surprises me. Unless there is something we didn't know then I didn't think this would happen. It seems to me it is harder to win at an Army then any other school in the Patriot League. The fact that they had a winning record in the PL and went to the semi-finals in PL Tournament seems to me to be a sign of success at Army. I don't know his overall record against Navy, but maybe the two losses this year against Navy is what did him in.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Mar 8, 2023 11:10:49 GMT -5
I'm sorry for all involved, but it's the height of absurdity for Nelson to continue to coach/run this program.....everyone loses, Nelson included. Glad you added that to the point you were making. 100% in agreement. Someone I know, not an HC person, watches a lot of college hoop, both in person and on TV. He said that the two worst coaches he has seen in recent years, by a considerable margin, are BN and Jim Engles, the coach at Columbia. Yes, this is anecdotal, but it's not hard to believe that BN's reputation throughout the college basketball universe is not very good.
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Post by classof83 on Mar 8, 2023 11:12:58 GMT -5
The uniformity of consent on relieving a coach is nothing I have ever seen on this Board before - maybe it is just the years of bad basketball have just sent everyone over the edge. Without a new coach what is the chance of a Coach's meetup at the Compass Tavern(or wherever the place may be) next fall?
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 8, 2023 11:13:44 GMT -5
I don't know his overall record against Navy, but maybe the two losses this year against Navy is what did him in. Allen was 7-7 vs. Navy.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 8, 2023 11:34:46 GMT -5
Not only has Army never gone to the dance; they have not made an appearance in the league championship game; that's the MAAC and PL combined, 42 (corrected, finally) years.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 8, 2023 11:38:15 GMT -5
Not only has Army never gone to the dance; they have not made an appearance in the league championship game; that's the MAAC and PL combined, 32 years. And they've only ever HOSTED a PL semi twice (1991 and 2016). Bold move for Army on that firing. And that is probably closer to 40 years if you include the MAAC years. They are already 0 for 32 as far as making the PL title game.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 8, 2023 11:56:11 GMT -5
Not only has Army never gone to the dance; they have not made an appearance in the league championship game; that's the MAAC and PL combined, 32 years. And they've only ever HOSTED a PL semi twice (1991 and 2016). Bold move for Army on that firing. And that is probably closer to 40 years if you include the MAAC years. They are already 0 for 32 as far as making the PL title game. I did, just didn't add the years up right. It's 42, not 32!
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Post by hcpride on Mar 8, 2023 11:59:58 GMT -5
In a way, Army parting ways with Jimmy Allen hopefully ramps up the pressure on Kit to make a move here. If Allen's performance at Army wasn't good enough for them, then surely what Nelson has done at HC can't be good enough for a fifth year. As Kit once said: "I am keenly aware of how important basketball is on this campus." I believe that he's "keenly aware of how important basketball is on this campus", but I also hope he's not keenly under orders not to fire BN. There are a couple of ways to take that quote.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Mar 8, 2023 12:03:58 GMT -5
Let's talk about Army for the next two pages; it's less depressing.
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