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Post by timholycross on Oct 11, 2023 10:24:22 GMT -5
The Ivy League, whether or not they chose to accept a bid to the Rose Bowl, etc.; would need to reclassify as FBS.
Otherwise, under the present FCS rules, they couldn't give everyone a merit scholarship. No one's going to have a college football squad with 60-65 players on it the way the game has been played for the last 60 years. And giving only partials would make that league less attractive, recruiting-wise, wouldn't it?
Or, am I misunderstanding and anyone at a FCS school who gets a half scholarship is also eligible for non-loan, need-based grants as well?
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 11, 2023 10:44:18 GMT -5
Not like the Holy Cross grad on scoutus is honest... You should restrict your comments re: Scotus members to all of the UNH justices that have been on the Court over the years. And I'm not referring to your esteemed alums serving on the Coos County traffic court. We just started a law school in 1973....
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Post by mm67 on Oct 11, 2023 10:46:39 GMT -5
People are giving the IL too much credit. You’ve fallen for it and their plan has worked. Look to the recent study on admission rates by income level. If you are from a family in the top 1% your chances of admission are triple that of an average income student. A conclusion from the study provided by a Harvard economist who was not involved in the study was that “the Ivy League doesn’t have low income students because it doesn’t want low income students.” If you don’t think the IL bends the rules at all on athletics, I think you are missing a lot. And the IL is so thankful for you. Without an adjustment, we will not have this level of success over the next several years. And Chesney is very smart. The moment he sees that the path forward becomes more challenging, he’s gone. The last thing he wants is a losing record. Where does HC stand in admission rates by income level? I have no idea. Would be foolish to guess.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 11, 2023 10:47:41 GMT -5
I would not schedule Merrimack any more. That team does nothing for us. Someone heard you and substituted Bryant for Merrimack next season.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 11, 2023 10:54:34 GMT -5
I would not schedule Merrimack any more. That team does nothing for us. TBT. Your analysis could have applied to teams scheduling HC over these many years. Present success is not indicative of past performance. Thus the benefit of belonging to the PL. As the great Cousy said in reference to basketball, the PL is a place HC belongs. I'm sure this would apply to other sports such as football.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 11, 2023 11:00:49 GMT -5
my avatar is all that i need to say about an opinion held for 40 years JEB; perhaps holy, but a naive fool The great Cousy agreed with Brooks on the move to the PL. As a coach at BC he saw the lack of integrity in big time sports. He believed HC belonged in the PL. Guess Mr. Bob Cousy was a naive fool, too? One should take care when throwing stones. I ask: Who is the naive fool?
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Post by efg72 on Oct 11, 2023 11:15:42 GMT -5
I agree throwing stones is not always wise. Some will always believe Father to be a visionary; others believe he made a mistake.
We must move beyond it and look ahead and make the best decision for the future of Holy Cross. Whatever that is, I hope we don't wait until our move is a reaction, but we proactively work to make it the best opportunity for Holy Cross. And yes, that includes a more robust version of the PL.
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Post by gks on Oct 11, 2023 11:29:59 GMT -5
my avatar is all that i need to say about an opinion held for 40 years JEB; perhaps holy, but a naive fool The great Cousy agreed with Brooks on the move to the PL. As a coach at BC he saw the lack of integrity in big time sports. He believed HC belonged in the PL. Guess Mr. Bob Cousy was a naive fool, too? One should take care when throwing stones. I ask: Who is the naive fool? Boston College had one of sports greatest gambling scandals in history. HC has NO, zero, nada, zilch issues in its athletic history....shackled themselves for no reason.
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Post by hc6774 on Oct 11, 2023 12:51:06 GMT -5
The great Cousy agreed with Brooks on the move to the PL. As a coach at BC he saw the lack of integrity in big time sports. He believed HC belonged in the PL. Guess Mr. Bob Cousy was a naive fool, too? One should take care when throwing stones. I ask: Who is the naive fool? Boston College had one of sports greatest gambling scandals in history. HC has NO, zero, nada, zilch issues in its athletic history....shackled themselves for no reason. Re athletic scandal, check Fr K's book covering '68-'72 esp pp 431- 435... It documents that NCAA secretly sanctioned HC for football recruiting violations and illegal practice sessions. These pages begin with '...finding the right niche for the college's intercollegiate athletic programs provided another difficult challenge.' They end with a May '70 comment by President Swords to the Varsity Club '...that the future of athletics at Holy Cross did not look good'. Brooks became president in July '71 with about a $7M endowment.
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Post by hc1996 on Oct 11, 2023 12:52:22 GMT -5
I dunno…BC, Gtown, ND, etc all appear to have better academic reputations than HC. Do I personally think they provide their students with a better education than HC? Absolutely not. But, reputation really matters.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 11, 2023 13:10:59 GMT -5
Boston College had one of sports greatest gambling scandals in history. HC has NO, zero, nada, zilch issues in its athletic history....shackled themselves for no reason. Re athletic scandal, check Fr K's book covering '68-'72 esp pp 431- 435... It documents that NCAA secretly sanctioned HC for football recruiting violations and illegal practice sessions. These pages begin with '...finding the right niche for the college's intercollegiate athletic programs provided another difficult challenge.' They end with a May '70 comment by President Swords to the Varsity Club '...that the future of athletics at Holy Cross did not look good'. Brooks became president in July '71 with about a $7M endowment. Fr. Brooks became HC’s President in July of 1970.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 11, 2023 14:35:57 GMT -5
Re athletic scandal, check Fr K's book covering '68-'72 esp pp 431- 435... It documents that NCAA secretly sanctioned HC for football recruiting violations and illegal practice sessions. These pages begin with '...finding the right niche for the college's intercollegiate athletic programs provided another difficult challenge.' They end with a May '70 comment by President Swords to the Varsity Club '...that the future of athletics at Holy Cross did not look good'. Brooks became president in July '71 with about a $7M endowment. Fr. Brooks became HC’s President in July of 1970. With no football revenue from 1969, how could it look very good; combined w/the overall financial condition of the school? But you might also note, HC's financial conditions was better than our counterparts in Chestnut Hill at the time.
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hc69
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 219
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Post by hc69 on Oct 11, 2023 15:05:09 GMT -5
The Ivy League, whether or not they chose to accept a bid to the Rose Bowl, etc.; would need to reclassify as FBS. Otherwise, under the present FCS rules, they couldn't give everyone a merit scholarship. No one's going to have a college football squad with 60-65 players on it the way the game has been played for the last 60 years. And giving only partials would make that league less attractive, recruiting-wise, wouldn't it? Or, am I misunderstanding and anyone at a FCS school who gets a half scholarship is also eligible for non-loan, need-based grants as well? Yes, you are misunderstanding it. Up to a point it's the same at the IL and HC. Both guarantee to meet 100 percent of need. That number is determined by an algorithm that starts with family income/resources. Family income/resources generally comes from the family's FAFSA application. The algorithm for each school is different so the 100 percent of need number that gets spit out is different too. But there's not a great difference at lower income levels. At lower income levels our aid packages are competitive with the IL. But because the IL schools are much better endowed than we are, at higher income levels 100 percent of need is higher than it is for us. More affluent kids pay less at an IL than they do at HC.
There are two groups. The first is the many students at the IL and HC that are paying nothing. Because of their family income, 100 percent of need is the full cost of attendance. Some of them are athletes. Here's the first wrinkle. The IL no longer includes work-study as part of the aid package. We do. So for us to give an athlete a "full-ride," we have to give him an athletics scholarship to make up for work-study. Once we do so, all the aid the athlete is receiving becomes athletically-related aid. That's an equivalency. If he's a FB player that's one of our allowable 63 equivalencies. Since the IL player is not receiving any aid based on athletics, none of his aid is athletically-related. Put another way, if we choose to make up the work-study difference, we're giving a football scholarship and they're not. (Before the IL did away with work-study, that athlete either had to do work-study or his family had pay the difference. Same before we started giving scholarships again.)
The second group is the students who do not qualify for 100 percent of need. Despite repeated claims (with no proof whatsoever) that the IL is giving every athlete a full-ride, at an IL the school cannot make up the difference. The family is paying the difference. None of that aid is athletically-related either. So they're not giving athletics scholarships. We can make up some or all of that difference but that will make all the athlete's aid athletically-related. So why would a FB player choose to go to an IL school where he has to pay something when he could go here for free? The IL is counting on the fact that an IL degree has significant value added. If you can go to Harvard for $10K a year and HC for free, you may choose Harvard because you figure to get that $40K back in a relatively short time after you graduate. Or you will probably have a better chance of getting into an IL law school or med school or business school.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 11, 2023 17:05:57 GMT -5
The great Cousy agreed with Brooks on the move to the PL. As a coach at BC he saw the lack of integrity in big time sports. He believed HC belonged in the PL. Guess Mr. Bob Cousy was a naive fool, too? One should take care when throwing stones. I ask: Who is the naive fool? Boston College had one of sports greatest gambling scandals in history. HC has NO, zero, nada, zilch issues in its athletic history....shackled themselves for no reason. Actually, at the time of his departure Mr. Cousy made statements deploring recruiting practices in big time programs. He did not want HC to dip into that cesspool. Gambling was not mentioned.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 11, 2023 17:11:06 GMT -5
And recruiting is getting crazier today, but manageable in most cases. In part, it is because of the portal and NIL dollars for proven talent
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Post by cruskater31 on Oct 11, 2023 18:33:16 GMT -5
Crusader Collective NIL
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Post by efg72 on Oct 11, 2023 18:52:17 GMT -5
Dig deep and give to the NIL If you can give to the CAF great
I am giving to the NIL and using a corporate match to go to the CAF
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 11, 2023 20:09:55 GMT -5
efg72 - nicely done!
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 11, 2023 20:35:52 GMT -5
Dig deep and give to the NIL If you can give to the CAF great I am giving to the NIL and using a corporate match to go to the CAF You and Sluka are both double threats. If Matt could learn the drop kick he could score a field goal on fourth down in the red zone and become a triple threat.
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Post by efg72 on Oct 11, 2023 20:39:35 GMT -5
Lol
I can explain it to him from rugby days, post hepatitis season, but no longer flexible enough to demonstrate on the run
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 11, 2023 20:45:23 GMT -5
Fourth and seven at the twelve yard line. Defense protecting against the pass. Snap to Sluka in the shotgun formation. It's a designed QB run. No, he’s stopping. He drops the ball and kicks it. It's up and it's good!🙂
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Post by lou on Oct 12, 2023 5:08:35 GMT -5
Dig deep and give to the NIL If you can give to the CAF great I am giving to the NIL and using a corporate match to go to the CAF Back in the day when I used corporate matches, donations to college athletics was not allowed
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 12, 2023 5:54:09 GMT -5
Back when I was able to use corporate matches, as long as my check was made out to the College of the Holy Cross it was matched by my employer as how HC used that money was up to them.
I’m not sure how NILs work but you don’t send the money to the college, do you? Isn’t it some independent fund? If so, would be shocked if there was a corporate match as the company(ies) write those matching funds off for tax purposes.
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Post by gks on Oct 12, 2023 6:02:50 GMT -5
Boston College had one of sports greatest gambling scandals in history. HC has NO, zero, nada, zilch issues in its athletic history....shackled themselves for no reason. Re athletic scandal, check Fr K's book covering '68-'72 esp pp 431- 435... It documents that NCAA secretly sanctioned HC for football recruiting violations and illegal practice sessions. These pages begin with '...finding the right niche for the college's intercollegiate athletic programs provided another difficult challenge.' They end with a May '70 comment by President Swords to the Varsity Club '...that the future of athletics at Holy Cross did not look good'. Brooks became president in July '71 with about a $7M endowment. Yes...when I think of great NCAA scandals in history it's...SMU 1980s, BC in the 70s and HC Football in the late 60s. Father Brooks de-emphasized athletics for no reason and no need.
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Post by Ignutz on Oct 12, 2023 7:01:23 GMT -5
Fourth and seven at the twelve yard line. Defense protecting against the pass. Snap to Sluka in the shotgun formation. It's a designed QB run. No, he’s stopping. He drops the ball and kicks it. It's up and it's good!🙂 Still remember Flutie doing that for the Patriots. Hard to believe that he convinced Belichick to let him do that.
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