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Post by longsuffering on Apr 29, 2024 9:36:36 GMT -5
Lacrosse is a pretty simple sport. You need at least a couple of middies who can draw a slide, an attackman or two who can finish, a fogo who can win more than 50% and a well coached defense. That’s a baseline, obviously not a PL championship winning formula. But we lack most if not all of those. Takeaway D, depth, d pole beaters at Attack and Middy are what legit programs have. Thats where scholarships and academic flexibility need more application (I think). It’s really not that hard to do, but HC doesn’t want to. BU figured it out in like 2 yrs. I know lax isn’t important to everyone, but I just think all alums need to be concerned that our supposedly high caliber educational institution can’t successfully field a sport that more and more people care about. As was mentioned none of our sports are for-profit, but they all reflect our brand and pride in where we attended. You would think Holy Cross would succeed as many of the best high school programs in the country are elite prep schools or suburban schools in metro areas Those players like scholarship aid, too. Even a partial athletic scholarship is a bragging point over a walk on to a similar quality school. As I understand it, HC is pushed by one anti-discrimination measure, title nine, to discriminate against men's lacrosse schollies in favor of women's schollies. Not required to exactly but probably the best work around they can come up with. Although I doubt women's lacrosse has that much aid to give, they have some and the men have none I believe.
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Post by crusader12 on Apr 29, 2024 9:53:06 GMT -5
Time for a change in leadership? Normally I would say yes but this program doesn't seem to change with new coaching. They have been in the toilet for decades. Not sure what the answer is. Most of the players are probably full pay kids so the school probably doesn't care.
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Post by hcpride on Apr 29, 2024 10:12:38 GMT -5
Lacrosse is a pretty simple sport. You need at least a couple of middies who can draw a slide, an attackman or two who can finish, a fogo who can win more than 50% and a well coached defense. That’s a baseline, obviously not a PL championship winning formula. But we lack most if not all of those. Takeaway D, depth, d pole beaters at Attack and Middy are what legit programs have. Thats where scholarships and academic flexibility need more application (I think). It’s really not that hard to do, but HC doesn’t want to. BU figured it out in like 2 yrs. I know lax isn’t important to everyone, but I just think all alums need to be concerned that our supposedly high caliber educational institution can’t successfully field a sport that more and more people care about. As was mentioned none of our sports are for-profit, but they all reflect our brand and pride in where we attended. You would think Holy Cross would succeed as many of the best high school programs in the country are elite prep schools or suburban schools in metro areas Even more specifically, the two huge Catholic schools near me (St Anthony's and Chaminade) churn out D-1 lax players at a great clip. Often ten or more a year. (When the top teams like Notre Dame, Duke and UNC play each other it is like a high school reunion of these two schools.) And those schools send lots of regular students, many athletes, and sometimes lax players up to Holy Cross. But their better boys lax players don't come here. I do think a bit of schollie money would make a difference (not suggesting we'll win recruit battles with the big dogs but there is no reason a St Anthony's or Chaminade kid wouldn't take us over a mid level PL, for example.) (Fun fact: The St Anthony's girls lax team has 31 - not a misprint - D-1 commits on their roster)
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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 29, 2024 12:42:56 GMT -5
You would think Holy Cross would succeed as many of the best high school programs in the country are elite prep schools or suburban schools in metro areas Those players like scholarship aid, too. Even a partial athletic scholarship is a bragging point over a walk on to a similar quality school. As I understand it, HC is pushed by one anti-discrimination measure, title nine, to discriminate against men's lacrosse schollies in favor of women's schollies. Not required to exactly but probably the best work around they can come up with. Although I doubt women's lacrosse has that much aid to give, they have some and the men have none I believe. I know some of the other teams in the conference are not fully funded....
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Post by saderalum1000 on Apr 29, 2024 15:09:31 GMT -5
Those players like scholarship aid, too. Even a partial athletic scholarship is a bragging point over a walk on to a similar quality school. As I understand it, HC is pushed by one anti-discrimination measure, title nine, to discriminate against men's lacrosse schollies in favor of women's schollies. Not required to exactly but probably the best work around they can come up with. Although I doubt women's lacrosse has that much aid to give, they have some and the men have none I believe. I know some of the other teams in the conference are not fully funded.... Sure, not everyone in the Patriot League is fully funded but as has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum, HC men's lacrosse is woefully underfunded compared to the rest of the Patriot League men's lacrosse programs. Frankly, it's a slap in the face that the men's lacrosse program has such crappy support at this school. And to be 100% clear by support I mean $$$. Year in and year out during the fundraising campaign, the men's lacrosse team specifically raises money like crazy; in this year's giving campaign it raised by far the most of any sport bringing in $240,000+ (the next closest sport was men's hockey at $121k). Despite raising the most money of any program, hardly any of this goes to lax specifically, but it all gets spread around the athletic department. We then take this money and then give it to programs like basketball that will never ever ever ever compete at a national level and use a lot of scholarship money but we can't cut because Bob Cousy went to Holy Cross. I'm not saying I want to get rid of the basketball team and move its funding to lacrosse, but it is frustrating to support this team not get rewarded with scholarship money so we're left here to argue if it's the kids' fault or the coaches' fault why the team gets embarrassed.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 29, 2024 19:40:06 GMT -5
Well, this is huge news to me if it is true. I kind of thought I knew how all this athletic fund raising worked at Holy Cross.
When I make my donation and specify it is for football, or men's or women's basketball, it was my understanding my donation went specifically to those sports. If I make a generic donation to the Crusader Athletics Fund (CAF) THEN my money can go towards whatever sport the Athletic Department feels it is most beneficial.
Or am I misreading what you posted?
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Post by bison137 on Apr 29, 2024 19:54:14 GMT -5
Those players like scholarship aid, too. Even a partial athletic scholarship is a bragging point over a walk on to a similar quality school. As I understand it, HC is pushed by one anti-discrimination measure, title nine, to discriminate against men's lacrosse schollies in favor of women's schollies. Not required to exactly but probably the best work around they can come up with. Although I doubt women's lacrosse has that much aid to give, they have some and the men have none I believe. I know some of the other teams in the conference are not fully funded.... Bucknell men’s lacrosse currently has about three scholarships although that is going to rise to about six over the next two years.
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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 29, 2024 21:58:28 GMT -5
I know some of the other teams in the conference are not fully funded.... Bucknell men’s lacrosse currently has about three scholarships although that is going to rise to about six over the next two years. Exactly my point, Bucknell has two NCAA berths in the 2000's and eight regular season patriot league championships in that time period. Holy Cross has none of those in their HISTORY.
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Post by bison137 on Apr 30, 2024 0:07:07 GMT -5
Bucknell men’s lacrosse currently has about three scholarships although that is going to rise to about six over the next two years. Exactly my point, Bucknell has two NCAA berths in the 2000's and eight regular season patriot league championships in that time period. Holy Cross has none of those in their HISTORY. When Bucknell earned those NCAA berths, and when Bucknell won all of those regular season championships, they had exactly 0 scholarships. The first scholarships they ever gave for lacrosse were in the last two years. But it’s become a lot tougher to win without having a good number of scholarships. Beyond the money issue, Bucknell for many years was more successful than Holy Cross due to better facilities, a winning tradition, and incredible continuity of staff. As a matter of fact, Bucknell has had lacrosse for 58 years and has had two head coaches in that time. That has traditionally made recruiting much easier and also has created an incredibly loyal and supportive group of alums. But as I mentioned, it has gotten a lot tougher in recent years.
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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 30, 2024 5:47:58 GMT -5
Exactly my point, Bucknell has two NCAA berths in the 2000's and eight regular season patriot league championships in that time period. Holy Cross has none of those in their HISTORY. When Bucknell earned those NCAA berths, and when Bucknell won all of those regular season championships, they had exactly 0 scholarships. The first scholarships they ever gave for lacrosse were in the last two years. But it’s become a lot tougher to win without having a good number of scholarships. Beyond the money issue, Bucknell for many years was more successful than Holy Cross due to better facilities, a winning tradition, and incredible continuity of staff. As a matter of fact, Bucknell has had lacrosse for 58 years and has had two head coaches in that time. That has traditionally made recruiting much easier and also has created an incredibly loyal and supportive group of alums. But as I mentioned, it has gotten a lot tougher in recent years. Well it got tougher when Loyola and BU joined
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Post by purplehaze on Apr 30, 2024 21:47:03 GMT -5
In the qtrs, Navy beat Loyola 12-10 and in the longest tourney game in history BU beat Colgate in the 3rd OT period 18-17. Semis are BU at Army and Navy vs Lehigh (at WP)
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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 30, 2024 22:41:07 GMT -5
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woorat
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 68
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Post by woorat on May 1, 2024 9:15:58 GMT -5
The school, ie the AD cannot take directed money for any sport and give it to another sport. The only money the AD can spread around to other sports/areas are the donations make that are not sport specific. If he is taken Lax donations and giving them to other sports, he can/should be immediately fired. I can guarantee he is not doing this. The answer is simple: No Mens Lax scholarships!
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Post by longsuffering on May 1, 2024 10:00:15 GMT -5
What do they use use the funds directed to MLax for?
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Post by alum on May 1, 2024 10:07:59 GMT -5
The school, ie the AD cannot take directed money for any sport and give it to another sport. The only money the AD can spread around to other sports/areas are the donations make that are not sport specific. If he is taken Lax donations and giving them to other sports, he can/should be immediately fired. I can guarantee he is not doing this. The answer is simple: No Mens Lax scholarships! I agree that there is no way that the AD is taking funds raised for one team and spending it on another. The trick, however, is how the college addresses the Title IX impact of such a gift. The rules are clear that you can't justify an Title IX imbalance because some of the money is donated for a specfic team. From a United States Department of Education, Office of Civil Rights publication. "Please also note that your school can accept voluntary support for teams from booster clubs, parents, and others. Those donations cannot justify discrimination under Title IX in your school’s benefits, opportunities, and treatment offered to its men’s and women’s teams. If booster clubs provide support for only men’s teams, for example, your school must ensure that women’s teams receive equivalent benefits, opportunities, and treatment. In addition, if booster clubs provide more support to men than women in your school’s athletic program, or vice versa, then your school must ensure that the benefits, opportunities, and treatment are equivalent for both men and women in its athletic program. Failure to do so may indicate a possible Title IX violation." Title IX and Athletic Opportunities in Colleges and Universities A Resource for Students, Coaches, Athletic Directors, and School Communities (2023) Perhaps Kit uses the funds donated without restriction to the CAF to deal with these potential Title IX imbalances
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Post by sader1970 on May 2, 2024 11:07:05 GMT -5
Thank you woorat and alum for confirming that we are not taking men's LAX donations and redirecting them elsewhere. Not sure where that thought came from?
Also, hcpride, while I did not know my high school alma mater had that many D-1 LAX players, I do know the school has been a bit of a feeder school for our ladies soccer team over the last few years (3 on this past season's team). Sammi Adams graduating in a few weeks.
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Post by hcpride on May 3, 2024 11:10:07 GMT -5
Thank you woorat and alum for confirming that we are not taking men's LAX donations and redirecting them elsewhere. Not sure where that thought came from? Also, hcpride, while I did not know my high school alma mater had that many D-1 LAX players, I do know the school has been a bit of a feeder school for our ladies soccer team over the last few years (3 on this past season's team). Sammi Adams graduating in a few weeks. Yes, that was my point (we get students and athletes from places like St Anthony's and Chaminade but not the better boys lax players...and it is not as if they and/or their parents have never heard of this place or don't think highly of this place or it is too far away or the name is too Catholic). I think a few schollie dollars might do the trick here and there. The girls lax team (with their 31 D-1 commits) at St Anthony's is number 1 in the nation...and the boys lax team is way down (lol) at number 6 in the nation this year.
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Post by bfoley82 on May 3, 2024 19:46:34 GMT -5
BU defeats Army 11-10 in overtime to advance to the final
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Post by purplehaze on May 4, 2024 9:05:58 GMT -5
And the other academy also goes down as Lehigh beat Navy 12-8 - looks like the PL will get only one big, going to tmro’s winner
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Post by hchoops on May 4, 2024 9:18:33 GMT -5
Thank you woorat and alum for confirming that we are not taking men's LAX donations and redirecting them elsewhere. Not sure where that thought came from? Also, hcpride, while I did not know my high school alma mater had that many D-1 LAX players, I do know the school has been a bit of a feeder school for our ladies soccer team over the last few years (3 on this past season's team). Sammi Adams graduating in a few weeks. Yes, that was my point (we get students and athletes from places like St Anthony's and Chaminade but not the better boys lax players...and it is not as if they and/or their parents have never heard of this place or don't think highly of this place or it is too far away or the name is too Catholic). I think a few schollie dollars might do the trick here and there. The girls lax team (with their 31 D-1 commits) at St Anthony's is number 1 in the nation...and the boys lax team is way down (lol) at number 6 in the nation this year. I presume that 31 is among all 4 classes, as women’s lax regularly provides many underclass commits. Obviously, still impressive.
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Post by bison137 on May 4, 2024 9:46:23 GMT -5
Yes, that was my point (we get students and athletes from places like St Anthony's and Chaminade but not the better boys lax players...and it is not as if they and/or their parents have never heard of this place or don't think highly of this place or it is too far away or the name is too Catholic). I think a few schollie dollars might do the trick here and there. The girls lax team (with their 31 D-1 commits) at St Anthony's is number 1 in the nation...and the boys lax team is way down (lol) at number 6 in the nation this year. I presume that 31 is among all 4 classes, as women’s lax regularly provides many underclass commits. Obviously, still impressive. Lacrosse has much tougher recruiting rules than other D1 sports. Coaches cannot communicate directly with athletes until September 1 of their junior year. No offers can be made before that date, including offers made through a third-party. so it’s only juniors and seniors.
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Post by hcpride on May 4, 2024 12:07:12 GMT -5
Yes, that was my point (we get students and athletes from places like St Anthony's and Chaminade but not the better boys lax players...and it is not as if they and/or their parents have never heard of this place or don't think highly of this place or it is too far away or the name is too Catholic). I think a few schollie dollars might do the trick here and there. The girls lax team (with their 31 D-1 commits) at St Anthony's is number 1 in the nation...and the boys lax team is way down (lol) at number 6 in the nation this year. I presume that 31 is among all 4 classes, as women’s lax regularly provides many underclass commits. Obviously, still impressive. I’d assume just juniors and seniors. After all, this was written regarding the St. Anthony’s boys team last year: ...Not when the defending CHSAA 'AAA' state champions feature 25 seniors who are committed to playing college lacrosse. Nineteen of those will play at Division I schools. “There are no practices like this anywhere in the country,” Owen Duffy said. “Our second-strings, our third-strings are all guys going places."... www.newsday.com/amp/sports/high-school/boys-lacrosse/st-anthonys-boys-lacrosse-t7hkcpicThis is a VERY different lacrosse world than most folks are used to (senior D-1 boys lax commits buried on the bench…and consider they had junior D-1 commits on the same team !!)
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Post by Sons of Vaval on May 6, 2024 8:47:24 GMT -5
Army is left out of the NCAA Tournament, despite finishing with an 11-3 record and good wins over Maryland and Syracuse, who were both at-large teams.
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Post by bfoley82 on May 6, 2024 22:10:51 GMT -5
Army is left out of the NCAA Tournament, despite finishing with an 11-3 record and good wins over Maryland and Syracuse, who were both at-large teams. They also had two losses to BU and lost to PL fifth place finisher Colgate. Army did NOT play Maryland this season and they only beat two NCAA teams in Syracuse and Lehigh.
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Post by 78purple on May 6, 2024 23:01:28 GMT -5
Army is left out of the NCAA Tournament, despite finishing with an 11-3 record and good wins over Maryland and Syracuse, who were both at-large teams. They also had two losses to BU and lost to PL fifth place finisher Colgate. Army did NOT play Maryland this season and they only beat two NCAA teams in Syracuse and Lehigh. It was essentially WP vs Lehigh....it'll be a big ask for Lehigh to beat JH
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