|
Post by Tom on Jun 20, 2024 9:09:00 GMT -5
Legend has it that Giant pitcher Don Liddle that threw the pitch that resulted in "the catch" and got pulled after facing only that one batter in a lefty vs lefty move, returned to the dugout and said "I got my man"
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 20, 2024 9:16:02 GMT -5
Having followed baseball all my life and having done considerable analysis of many players it seems very clear to me that no player can compare to Babe Ruth as greatest player in history, with Ty Cobb likely a distant second.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Jun 20, 2024 9:20:04 GMT -5
Who were the participants in each poll ? This result may have had something to do with Cobb’s personal characteristics.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Jun 20, 2024 9:21:49 GMT -5
Having followed baseball all my life and having done considerable analysis of many players it seems very clear to me that no player can compare to Babe Ruth as greatest player in history, with Ty Cobb likely a distant second. Agree at the top, but Willie is my close #2.
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Jun 20, 2024 9:30:04 GMT -5
Having followed baseball all my life and having done considerable analysis of many players it seems very clear to me that no player can compare to Babe Ruth as greatest player in history, with Ty Cobb likely a distant second. Agree at the top, but Willie is my close #2. The subject of another thread I started, but why do I feel like no one alive today really holds a candle to these guys
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 20, 2024 9:47:15 GMT -5
Agree at the top, but Willie is my close #2. The subject of another thread I started, but why do I feel like no one alive today really holds a candle to these guys A healthy Mike Trout, in my opinion, can make a case for himself as one of the all-time greats. By the way, on Wednesdays each week I meet some folks at a local watering hole for beverages, stimulating conversation, and some takeout. Yesterday I interrupted the multiple conversations to raise a toast to Willie Mays and all joined in enthusiastically. I'm sure that scene was replicated in bars all across the country.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 20, 2024 9:57:43 GMT -5
As I get older, I gravitate more towards the "in-era comparison" model. For example, who else was close to doing what Mays did when Mays played? What about Bonds? What about Griffey Jr.? What about Ruth?
Even though he looks chubby and ate hot dogs and drank beers, accounting for the environment, competition, ball parks, science, equipment, schedules, etc. of his peers, Ruth was doing by himself what entire TEAMS could not do. He was 4, 5, 6 times the player his peers were. That's why he's the GOAT. Exceeded the game to become a national legend.
I think from there, you can split the hairs we're doing here: who was the best combination of athleticism, running, fielding, throwing, hitting...
Let's also not forget Roberto Clemente. Maybe the greatest arm ever (although Mays' was great too-- on the "Catch" the threw the ball back to the infield on the fly). And if you're going to retire Jackie Robinson's number across the sport, how do you not retire Clemente's? How many Latino players, and black Latino players at that, are in MLB today, versus black American players? Surely, one helped open a door, and open minds in America... but I would argue Clemente's influence to the sport and in global markets may have been just as big, if not bigger.
|
|
fz
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 52
|
Post by fz on Jun 20, 2024 9:59:15 GMT -5
What year did the players stop leaving their gloves in the playing field?
found the answer. 1954. So stats before that year should have an asterisk for balls hit in the field since gloves could get in a players way or a ball redirected.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on Jun 20, 2024 10:12:00 GMT -5
As I get older, I gravitate more towards the "in-era comparison" model. For example, who else was close to doing what Mays did when Mays played? What about Bonds? What about Griffey Jr.? What about Ruth? Even though he looks chubby and ate hot dogs and drank beers, accounting for the environment, competition, ball parks, science, equipment, schedules, etc. of his peers, Ruth was doing by himself what entire TEAMS could not do. He was 4, 5, 6 times the player his peers were. That's why he's the GOAT. Exceeded the game to become a national legend. Yes, what Ruth did compared to his peers was ridiculous and simply incomparable to what any other player has done compared to their respective peers. (There are some comparisons to be made with some of Chamberlain’s NBA achievements.) As far as Mays goes, it is true that Griffey had some similar skills and stats for a period of time. But I’m reminded of the argument that Nomar Garciaparra was as good as Jeter because he matched him for some (considerably shorter) number of years. LOL. After Ruth, I can see a strong case for Mays in terms of the top position player of all time.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2024 10:24:52 GMT -5
As I get older, I gravitate more towards the "in-era comparison" model. For example, who else was close to doing what Mays did when Mays played? What about Bonds? What about Griffey Jr.? What about Ruth? Even though he looks chubby and ate hot dogs and drank beers, accounting for the environment, competition, ball parks, science, equipment, schedules, etc. of his peers, Ruth was doing by himself what entire TEAMS could not do. He was 4, 5, 6 times the player his peers were. That's why he's the GOAT. Exceeded the game to become a national legend. Yes, what Ruth did compared to his peers was ridiculous and simply incomparable to what any other player has done compared to their respective peers. (There are some comparisons to be made with some of Chamberlain’s NBA achievements.) As far as Mays goes, it is true that Griffey had some similar skills and stats for a period of time. But I’m reminded of the argument that Nomar Garciaparra was as good as Jeter because he matched him for some (considerably shorter) number of years. LOL. After Ruth, I can see a strong case for Mays in terms of the top position player of all time. Jim Brown was head and shoulders above the competition and then retired in his prime.
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Jun 20, 2024 10:27:29 GMT -5
So, I was going to be a smart guy and say the difference was because the Baby Ruth candy bar was introduced between those two polls but decided to do some minimal research on the timing of the introduction of the candy bar. As Golmer would say: "surprise, surprise, surprise!" The candy bar was NOT named after the baseball player - not officially or legally. Learn something new everyday! FWIW, I think all the Baby Ruth's I ate helped get me diabetes!
|
|
|
Post by Tom on Jun 20, 2024 11:48:16 GMT -5
. Let's also not forget Roberto Clemente. Maybe the greatest arm ever A little too young to recall it from the day, but I've seen video of Clemente throwing multiple guys out at first. (some a function of taking too wide a turn)
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 20, 2024 12:37:47 GMT -5
Yes, what Ruth did compared to his peers was ridiculous and simply incomparable to what any other player has done compared to their respective peers. (There are some comparisons to be made with some of Chamberlain’s NBA achievements.) As far as Mays goes, it is true that Griffey had some similar skills and stats for a period of time. But I’m reminded of the argument that Nomar Garciaparra was as good as Jeter because he matched him for some (considerably shorter) number of years. LOL. After Ruth, I can see a strong case for Mays in terms of the top position player of all time. Jim Brown was head and shoulders above the competition and then retired in his prime. Some still consider him the GOAT.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Jun 20, 2024 13:15:35 GMT -5
Jim Brown was head and shoulders above the competition and then retired in his prime. Some still consider him the GOAT. I am one of those “some”. I had the pleasure of seeing him in person vs the Giants.
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Jun 20, 2024 13:39:49 GMT -5
When I saw him against the Giants, it was clearly for me, as a Giant fan, not a pleasure. However, as a football fan, I found him amazing to watch.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 20, 2024 13:41:16 GMT -5
Jim Brown was head and shoulders above the competition and then retired in his prime. Some still consider him the GOAT. I'm firmly in that camp-Jim Brown was the greatest football player in history. While a half dozen players (mostly modern quarterbacks) have a higher average yards/carry than Jim's 5.2 yards, he is the only man to average more than 100 yards of rushing per game, The man in second place, with 99.8 yards per game, happens to be the other running back in my all-star backfield, Barry Sanders.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2024 15:28:26 GMT -5
An enduring memory is Jim Brown carrying a committee of defenders on his back for 5-10 yards after they got on.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Jun 20, 2024 17:37:45 GMT -5
I’m watching the pregame to the game at Rickwood Field. Lots of stars including Bonds, Griffey and now Reggie.
EDIT: They will be writing about what Reggie is saying for days to come.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on Jun 20, 2024 17:45:45 GMT -5
I’m watching the pregame to the game at Rickwood Field. Lots of stars including Bonds, Griffey and now Reggie. So now there is a straw to stir the drink.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Jun 20, 2024 18:22:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Jun 20, 2024 18:36:08 GMT -5
Watching also One former Negro League player recalled a game in the Puerto Rican League when Willie was in center and Roberto in right. Most likely few runners took any extra bases.
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Jun 20, 2024 18:42:30 GMT -5
Powerful words And Reggie was not talking about the 1930s, 40s, or even 50. Those As teams were most likely in the 70s.
|
|
|
Post by alum on Jun 21, 2024 7:12:02 GMT -5
Powerful words And Reggie was not talking about the 1930s, 40s, or even 50. Those As teams were most likely in the 70s. Hoops--I was interested and pleased to learn that John McNamara (he of the poor managing job for the Red Sox in 1986 World Series) had been Reggie's manager in Birmingham in 1967 and had stood up for his player when they encountered racism. I also hadn't thought of Joe Rudi in forever until Reggie mentioned him (and his wife Sharon) as people who supported him in those difficult times. Here is the famous Rudi catch since I am thinking about him.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 21, 2024 7:39:22 GMT -5
I’m watching the pregame to the game at Rickwood Field. Lots of stars including Bonds, Griffey and now Reggie. So now there is a straw to stir the drink. I just taught my girls this expression this morning. The lead into that was asking them if they could answer who Mr. October is, I would forgive them for dumping the smoothies all over the kitchen floor.
|
|
|
Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 21, 2024 7:40:07 GMT -5
Watching also One former Negro League player recalled a game in the Puerto Rican League when Willie was in center and Roberto in right. Most likely few runners took any extra bases. It almost doesn't matter who was in left-- would probably be among the best OFs ever!
|
|