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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 15, 2020 8:51:35 GMT -5
Nelson's job is to win basketball games. That is how he will advance in his career. He doesn't want to stay at HC forever.
So long as he stays within the rules, I'm fine with Nelson and staff doing whatever they have to do in order to inject more talent into this program. If this results in feelings being hurt, oh well.
The Verbeek for LC swap looks to be a great one.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 15, 2020 8:56:02 GMT -5
If CBN wants to use this scholarship now, I would look for a sit one, play two guy as they are now referred to in the transfer market. A sit one, play three guy places 7 players in the Class of 2024. Of course, given the explosive growth of the transfer market in college hoops, maybe looking beyond the next season when it comes to roster management is pointless. If we recruit a sit 1, play 2 guy now, we will have 10 scholarships tied up in two consecutive classes. Also, you’d have a guy who can first play in 2021-22 and have two years left. If you recruit a rising HS senior, you have a guy who can first play in 2021-22 and has 4 years left. An exception could be made for a STUD transfer but otherwise I think we hold it for next year or try to find a guy with one or two years left who has immediate eligibility for some reason. The health crisis has to figure into this as well. No basketball in 2020-21 (hope not!); and in terms of who shows up for practice in the fall of 2021; you theoretically have a team of two players with one year experience and the rest rookies.
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Post by trimster on Apr 15, 2020 9:06:24 GMT -5
If we recruit a sit 1, play 2 guy now, we will have 10 scholarships tied up in two consecutive classes. Also, you’d have a guy who can first play in 2021-22 and have two years left. If you recruit a rising HS senior, you have a guy who can first play in 2021-22 and has 4 years left. An exception could be made for a STUD transfer but otherwise I think we hold it for next year or try to find a guy with one or two years left who has immediate eligibility for some reason. The health crisis has to figure into this as well. No basketball in 2020-21 (hope not!); and in terms of who shows up for practice in the fall of 2021; you theoretically have a team of two players with one year experience and the rest rookies. That is a worst case scenario but can’t be ruled out. My pure guess is next year will be an abbreviated season beginning in January and will consist of conference only games.
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Post by Ray on Apr 15, 2020 9:34:31 GMT -5
If these kids are not being run off, what amazes me the most is the discounting of the HC education in their calculus of whether to stay or not. Maybe it is generational thing, but the value of a short-lived basketball career seems to outweigh the lifetime value of the education they receive. Of course, maybe they never had a high enough regard for the HC education which may be more concerning. I'm not as quick to slander Bill Carmody as some others, but I do think that at least a chunk of the root cause of this is reflective of how these kids were recruited, and what was emphasized to them in the recruitment phase. It seems pretty clear that Carmody wasn't selling the school and the lifetime benefit of the education/degree. Maybe that's somewhat indicative of 17-yr olds today not being receptive to that message, I don't know.
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Post by Ray on Apr 15, 2020 9:36:31 GMT -5
If we recruit a sit 1, play 2 guy now, we will have 10 scholarships tied up in two consecutive classes. Also, you’d have a guy who can first play in 2021-22 and have two years left. If you recruit a rising HS senior, you have a guy who can first play in 2021-22 and has 4 years left. An exception could be made for a STUD transfer but otherwise I think we hold it for next year or try to find a guy with one or two years left who has immediate eligibility for some reason. The health crisis has to figure into this as well. No basketball in 2020-21 (hope not!); and in terms of who shows up for practice in the fall of 2021; you theoretically have a team of two players with one year experience and the rest rookies. I don't think you can build your roster now toward this eventuality. That's such a nightmare in terms of roster construction, you've literally got 6 years of players battling for scholarships and playing time. You have no idea how that plays out on any specific roster.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 15, 2020 10:14:58 GMT -5
Hoops Didn’t say more talented-but imo not even close as a competitor, I would take Niego every day over Grandison, who I thought was talented but soft, and because of that found ways to hide for big minutes which were costly. Don’t think Grandison, with the attitude he had with HC, was more than a PL player. So if people like Grandison’s game, Niego could find a similar opportunity in the MAC or elsewhere. Not saying either contributes at that level, but not saying they won’t. The thing I call bs on in his description is his defending ability. You'd be able to sell me both the Bourne and Sagamore bridges each with a 50 year warranty, to convince me the team is going to be losing a lights-out defender. Tim Not sure I said he was a respectable or lights out defender- My comments about Niego --he played hard, imho a tougher player than Grandison, and in the near term his experience and effort will be a loss. Nothing about his talent, or his offensive or defensive contributions
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Post by timholycross on Apr 15, 2020 11:22:41 GMT -5
EFG:
Sorry for the confusion. It's what happens when someone (me) replies to a post (the original Tweet that made him out to be something he really isn't) at the beginning of a thread and there are a couple dozen replies after that and someone (again, me) was too lazy to read them all.
In other words, a knee-jerk reaction.
I then read your post after my post and I agree with it. very much so.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Apr 16, 2020 5:13:48 GMT -5
Not sure what to think about this. So many possible factors. One thing CN might have in his favor is his experience playing in 2 totally different systems. And just because some may have hated former Coach Carmody's coaching style, other coaches may not feel the same way in terms of what it brings to the table for a transfer. Maybe it's just coachspeak BS, but Brad Underwood in at least one interview pointed to Jacob's experience in the PO as being a real positive for him.
I do have to chuckle though - I recall some posters almost wanting Milan Brown arrested when Joe O'Shea transferred. Now.....who cares if the whole pack leaves lol. I'm still very hopeful and optimistic that these new recruits are going to work out well. However, while I myself have been preaching patience, I do want to see evidence next season that CBN has the ability to coach players up both individually, and as a unit. I also want to see some stability. The time for blaming players recruited by FCBC is over.
Wish Big Skinny the best.
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Post by bigfan on Apr 16, 2020 6:25:45 GMT -5
In the future I think that we are going to see many transfers throughout college basketball.
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Post by hcgrad94 on Apr 16, 2020 6:28:36 GMT -5
Was about to say the same. It's a whole different era with the portal and now this virus crisis. Brave New world unlike any other time in college sports.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 16, 2020 7:14:10 GMT -5
Not sure what to think about this. So many possible factors. One thing CN might have in his favor is his experience playing in 2 totally different systems. And just because some may have hated former Coach Carmody's coaching style, other coaches may not feel the same way in terms of what it brings to the table for a transfer. Maybe it's just coachspeak BS, but Brad Underwood in at least one interview pointed to Jacob's experience in the PO as being a real positive for him. I do have to chuckle though - I recall some posters almost wanting Milan Brown arrested when Joe O'Shea transferred. Now.....who cares if the whole pack leaves lol. I'm still very hopeful and optimistic that these new recruits are going to work out well. However, while I myself have been preaching patience, I do want to see evidence next season that CBN has the ability to coach players up both individually, and as a unit. I also want to see some stability. The time for blaming players recruited by FCBC is over. Wish Big Skinny the best. "Big Skinny" is the perfect nickname for about 60% of all basketball players, but I have never heard it before. Good one.
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Post by trimster on Apr 16, 2020 7:19:05 GMT -5
I believe it is Niego’s handle on one of the social media platforms.
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Post by dadominate on Apr 16, 2020 7:34:43 GMT -5
Not sure what to think about this. So many possible factors. One thing CN might have in his favor is his experience playing in 2 totally different systems. And just because some may have hated former Coach Carmody's coaching style, other coaches may not feel the same way in terms of what it brings to the table for a transfer. Maybe it's just coachspeak BS, but Brad Underwood in at least one interview pointed to Jacob's experience in the PO as being a real positive for him. I do have to chuckle though - I recall some posters almost wanting Milan Brown arrested when Joe O'Shea transferred. Now.....who cares if the whole pack leaves lol. I'm still very hopeful and optimistic that these new recruits are going to work out well. However, while I myself have been preaching patience, I do want to see evidence next season that CBN has the ability to coach players up both individually, and as a unit. I also want to see some stability. The time for blaming players recruited by FCBC is over. Wish Big Skinny the best. well said across the board, nad. in 2020, a 6'8 kid who can shoot the ball like niego will draw interest. just as grandison did. agree with efg that niego has a higher motor than grandison, although grandison was more productive overall. while i personally prefer physical basketball (presumably what nelson is trying to accomplish), skilled bigs who can shoot and pass are always a hot commodity in the basketball world today. as another poster said, i wouldn't be surprised to see niego step up to the mvc, mac, or another mid-major conference higher up the totem pole than us. depending upon where niego and lowder end up, it would be a strange state of affairs to see key parts of our former roster in better programs ala grandison at illinois. i don't think verbeek, hargis, and all the others who have left will transfer up, but niego and lowder are possibilities. oh well, i like our incoming roster, and i hope/expect that some of the freshman can play right out of the gate.
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Post by Tom on Apr 16, 2020 7:59:32 GMT -5
Not sure what to think about this. So many possible factors. One thing CN might have in his favor is his experience playing in 2 totally different systems. And just because some may have hated former Coach Carmody's coaching style, other coaches may not feel the same way in terms of what it brings to the table for a transfer. Maybe it's just coachspeak BS, but Brad Underwood in at least one interview pointed to Jacob's experience in the PO as being a real positive for him. I do have to chuckle though - I recall some posters almost wanting Milan Brown arrested when Joe O'Shea transferred. Now.....who cares if the whole pack leaves lol. I'm still very hopeful and optimistic that these new recruits are going to work out well. However, while I myself have been preaching patience, I do want to see evidence next season that CBN has the ability to coach players up both individually, and as a unit. I also want to see some stability. The time for blaming players recruited by FCBC is over. Wish Big Skinny the best. "Big Skinny" is the perfect nickname for about 60% of all basketball players, but I have never heard it before. Good one. I was aware of Niego's nickname. It was posted here a year or so ago. It stuck me as funny that Verbeek could have been calling Niego skinny
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Post by HC92 on Apr 16, 2020 8:50:43 GMT -5
Niego’s other offers out of high school were Winthrop, Green Bay and Evansville. Those types of places seem like likely landing spots.
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Post by timholycross on Apr 16, 2020 8:58:41 GMT -5
I think the extra (medical redshirt) year factors into his decision a lot; knowing he can offer a school two years, can play as a grad student; on the other side, Nelson perhaps on the fence about wanting him back for more than next season.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 16, 2020 9:27:58 GMT -5
To play in his sixth year would need an NCAA waiver which is uncommon Unless he gets a waiver to play this 20-21 season if it happens
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Post by Tom on Apr 16, 2020 11:28:06 GMT -5
To play in his sixth year would need an NCAA waiver which is uncommon Unless he gets a waiver to play this 20-21 season if it happens I could see waivers happening if there is no season
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Apr 16, 2020 11:32:32 GMT -5
This was why I asked the question of whether he could get his degree now.....that way he could be eligible immediately, plus get a second year.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 16, 2020 11:53:47 GMT -5
But a degree now would not necessarily waive the one year sit for transfers.
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Post by joe on Apr 16, 2020 12:14:56 GMT -5
What is the end game here? Unless he’s bound for the IL, on what planet is it smart to give up on a HC degree to play 2 more years for a school from a conference that is maybe a notch or two up from the PL? To what end? Pro basketball? At what point is there an adult in the room advising these guys that there is an expiration date on their basketball careers and to just go to college, get their degrees, and move on with life?
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Post by hchoops on Apr 16, 2020 12:18:22 GMT -5
Well said, Joe And it seems as if the second year of playing is questionable
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Post by joe on Apr 16, 2020 12:33:55 GMT -5
These kids should try out this “transfer portal” approach with their employers when they are out in the real world and see how it works out for their careers and professional reputations. I’m getting the sense some of these student-athletes have been denied a very fundamental aspect of their education, specifically using athletics as an analogy to - and prep for - the real world. Perhaps something much deeper has been amiss these many years.
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Post by hchoops on Apr 16, 2020 12:44:46 GMT -5
One aspect that has definitely changed in hoops Multiple high schools, prep schools, reclassifying, multiple AAU teams, a sense of entitlement What is scary is that schools like HC get the better students, and still the portal mentality endures
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Post by Tom on Apr 16, 2020 12:53:57 GMT -5
One aspect that has definitely changed in hoops Multiple high schools, prep schools, reclassifying, multiple AAU teams, a sense of entitlement What is scary is that schools like HC get the better students, and still the portal mentality endures There's a kid in Worcester who went to high school in the city, transferred after soph year to a prep school, played a PG year at another prep school. Committed to one college, reneged and went someplace else, and is now transferring to a third college. This is an extreme example, but lots of bouncing around now-a-days
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