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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 22, 2020 16:01:07 GMT -5
This is a major blow to any expectations at all for next year. Let's hope that it's just Pridgen wanting to try his luck landing at a high-major or A-10 level program. And if he does, good for him.
The best we can hope for now is that the incoming freshman class is able to mesh and start building something from Day 1. Three years ago this coming November, when I watched Butler, Grandison, Faw and Green make their debuts on the road at Sacred Heart, I thought those four could be the core of something special a couple years down the line. Obviously the wheels came off the bus at the end of the Carmody regime and now we are we are. More than any season in the last quarter century of HC basketball, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FRESHMEN.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Apr 22, 2020 16:13:44 GMT -5
I'm sure this is a topic that has been discussed to death on Crossports, but at some point you have to ask whether it's quixotic for HC to be a D1 school. What's the combined winning percentage for all HC teams over the last 25 years? Less than 40%? I wish players like Jacob G. well but you wonder what he's looking for. Apparently the chance to play, with an specified role, in a better league for two years. He's not an NBA player. And apparently the benefits of an HC education are no different than an Illinois education or a Fairfield education, etc. If the new model is that mid-majors take talented but flawed players, coach them up, showcase them, and then see them leave then having D1 sports isn't worth it. For the Dukes and Kentuckys it's one and done; for the mid-majors it's two and done. No thanks.I completely understand jumping on an opportunity to play SCHOLARSHIP Big Ten basketball at Illinois. Sure, a degree from U of I doesn't mean as much as a degree from HC for a regular graduate. But a lot of doors will open for an intelligent young man entering the real world as a Big Ten hoops alum. I do think overall that loyalty seems to be a thing of the past. Kids these days care more about how many Instagram followers they have than building real relationships. At a school like Holy Cross, where even athletes in the flagship sports are very much integrated into the greater community and student body, you would think we'd be at least a little bit immune to this mass-transfer pseudo-free agency pandemic. Clearly Not! Our very own hchoops would know that this same sort of trend is occurring ad nauseum at the high school level now. Kids are playing for 3-4 different schools in between 8th grade and their PG year. Apparently, suiting up for your public high school or local Catholic school of choice while playing AAU on the side isn't enough anymore.
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Post by rf1 on Apr 22, 2020 16:17:19 GMT -5
It is not just occurring at Holy Cross. Transfers are out of control at many schools and in many conferences right now. The likely coming transfer policy change that will eliminate the waiting period along with the virus are probably the prime reasons.
Most kids did not transfer in the past because it meant they would have to sit out a year. Many schools were reluctant to take them because it meant wasting a scholarship for a year. The Big Ten and ACC along with other top conferences are leading the charge to eliminate the waiting period for student athletes one time during their college career. It unfortunately appears that it will be approved for next season. Once that happens, look out. Transfers will become even more frequent and I see a future where the top leagues use the rest of college basketball for their farm system.
Most college basketball players are used to very structured schedules controlled by their coaches with them on campus. The virus has upended that. They left campus early in the semester and will most probably not be attending a summer session. This has resulted in the players going home beyond the reach and control of coaching staffs. They are bored and listening to others that are telling them they could be doing better elsewhere.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Apr 22, 2020 16:22:22 GMT -5
This is a major blow to any expectations at all for next year. Let's hope that it's just Pridgen wanting to try his luck landing at a high-major or A-10 level program. And if he does, good for him. The best we can hope for now is that the incoming freshman class is able to mesh and start building something from Day 1. Three years ago this coming November, when I watched Butler, Grandison, Faw and Green make their debuts on the road at Sacred Heart, I thought those four could be the core of something special a couple years down the line. Obviously the wheels came off the bus at the end of the Carmody regime and now we are we are. More than any season in the last quarter century of HC basketball, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FRESHMEN. This is probably just some Covid-19 crankiness but at this point I'm wondering how many other shoes will fall between now and next fall. I think the AD would be wise tomorrow to offer some detail about what has transpired with the basketball program. He doesn't have to get too granular but he needs to offer enough detail so that alums don't feel that the basketball program has become an irredeemable wasteland. I think Ray's point is well taken that with school shutting down months early JP had that much less time to form a connection with classmates/HC. Instead, he's presumably been at home finishing his school work while listening to other D1 programs whisper sweet nothings.
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Post by hceconhist on Apr 22, 2020 16:23:52 GMT -5
We should ask the AD about this in tomorrow’s webinar I made the mistake of registering early with a football schedule question. I suspect he will avoid men’s basketball like the plague. If someone asks, I don't see how he could possibly avoid answering.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Apr 22, 2020 16:24:31 GMT -5
Joe and Ciaran both were with Lowder back in Michigan a few weeks ago. Now neither are with the program.
Not a conspiracy guy, but a connect the dots guy.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 22, 2020 16:41:10 GMT -5
the Courier Journal did a study of the signing classes from 2009 thru 2018 from the 13 programs that either reached multiple final fours or won a national championship. Here's the percent of those players that (1) either exhausted their eligibility or remain on the roster and then a count (not percentage) of the players who (2) left for the draft or (3) transferred or were dismissed
Michigan= 38% & 10 & 13 At Michigan 38% exhausted eligibility or remained on the team, 10 left for the draft, 13 transferred or were dismissed Virginia= 50% & 4 & 12 Connecticut= 47% & 4 & 12 Butler= 61% & 0 & 11 Wisconsin= 68% & 1 & 10 Louisville= 36% &11 & 10 Syracuse= 39% & 10 & 9 Kentucky= 9% & 41 & 9 Kansas= 41% & 14 & 8 Duke= 36% & 20 & 8 Villanova= 52% & 7 & 7 Michigan State= 66% & 5 & 6 North Carolina= 60% & 10 & 5
Please know that I am not suggesting that Holy Cross's basketball programs is like these programs. I'm just offering some data that show how few of the teams at the top have 4 year players, one of the things that I really used to enjoy about following Holy Cross basketball.
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Post by nhteamer on Apr 22, 2020 16:45:22 GMT -5
Thank you Ricky P
Your 29 seconds of fun cost us 12 years of torture.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 22, 2020 16:46:40 GMT -5
I made the mistake of registering early with a football schedule question. I suspect he will avoid men’s basketball like the plague. If someone asks, I don't see how he could possibly avoid answering. I assume the questions will be submitted in writing and he will pick and choose the ones to answer. I doubt he’s going to call on people and see what they ask. But, I guess you never know.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Apr 22, 2020 16:47:04 GMT -5
If Wade bolts, it's time to call Oliver Stone.
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Post by Crosser on Apr 22, 2020 16:53:56 GMT -5
Say it ain’t so, Joe.
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Post by sader1970 on Apr 22, 2020 16:55:02 GMT -5
92: Fear not, I registered early and DID ask the question about the basketball turnover. My only regret was that I had a tough time getting my question to fit in the 128 character limitation and wasn't able to sufficiently express my revulsion at what has transpired. And this not even knowing about JP which I just saw now.
This is unprecedented in Holy Cross athletic history. You can say all you want about the transfer portal; the Patriot League; the 3-29 season; the "way kids are today;" etc., etc. Apparently the recruiting over the years has been lacking in identifying student-athletes with character and an appreciation what it means to attend and graduate from Holy Cross. The Butlers, Faws and Wades are the exception . . . . we think.
Yes, this in large part is on Carmody. But Nelson and Blossom don't get a free ride here.
Let's see what Marcus says tomorrow! I give him credit for the videoconference as he has to know what's coming. Hopefully he won't try a smoke and mirrors performance.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Apr 22, 2020 17:01:59 GMT -5
If a player is in the "Portal", can the school he is currently enrolled in "re-recruit" him? Just curious..... The time to recruit Joe P was immediately following the season for Nelson, but he was running around to JuCo programs instead. Ridiculous, but you already knew that. Should Nelson have grabbed an air mattress and just moved into Mulledy with Pridgen? Get lawst.
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Post by sarasota on Apr 22, 2020 17:05:06 GMT -5
With all the money sloshing around higher level programs, coaches' salaries, coaches' endorsements, TV contracts, alumni donations, etc., you KNOW JP was romanced by higher level programs. Unfortunately, big money corrupts. Also, you have to put yourself in a guy like JP's shoes. The hundreds of hours of sweat , the flattering attention, his dreams of college and pro life, his world becomes nothing but basketball, finding out in his Frosh year that he is better than even he thought he could be, awards, recognitions. He is RIPE. Then he gets a call from a name program and his heart skips a beat. He's just a KID. Would be surprised if he doesn't jump ship.
I almost feel like saying....GET RID OF THE GODDAM SCHOLARSHIPS. Let's try to become a college again, stop pursuing a chimera. Stop making the tail wag the dog. Offer a fabulous four-year college experience that includes rich sports programs offering competition and fun. Oh wait......there exists such a world. Certain colleges are already living in that world. It's called......
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Post by crusader12 on Apr 22, 2020 17:11:32 GMT -5
This team may not win a single game next year. Not even Joel Osteen can save this team. I thought the worst was over but we have some serious dark days ahead. I feel for BN but we may need to make a change just to save the program.
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Post by joe on Apr 22, 2020 17:15:49 GMT -5
“Apparently the recruiting over the years has been lacking in identifying student-athletes with character and an appreciation what it means to attend and graduate from Holy Cross.”
Agree.
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Post by trimster on Apr 22, 2020 17:16:32 GMT -5
This team may not win a single game next year. Not even Joel Osteen can save this team. I thought the worst was over but we have some serious dark days ahead. I feel for BN but we may need to make a change just to save the program. The sun will come up tomorrow and life will go on. Assuming the Exodus is due to our coach is very unfair. We have little idea what it was like to play for CBN last season. I would have said right now but obviously, right now is very unusual.
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Post by Tom on Apr 22, 2020 17:17:42 GMT -5
Unlikely that his parents and little brother will attend as many games where ever he lands as they did this year
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Post by trimster on Apr 22, 2020 17:20:05 GMT -5
Unlikely that his parents and little brother will attend as many games where ever he lands as they did this year From a distance, I thought HolyCross was a good fit for JP.
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Post by crusader12 on Apr 22, 2020 17:22:20 GMT -5
This team may not win a single game next year. Not even Joel Osteen can save this team. I thought the worst was over but we have some serious dark days ahead. I feel for BN but we may need to make a change just to save the program. The sun will come up tomorrow and life will go on. Assuming the Exodus is due to our coach is very unfair. We have little idea what it was like to play for CBN last season. I would have said right now but obviously, right now is very unusual. Not suggesting the exodus is due to the coach but for the sake of current and future recruiting HC may not have a choice. I really feel bad for him. This isn’t fun for anyone.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 22, 2020 17:28:03 GMT -5
Apparently the recruiting over the years has been lacking in identifying student-athletes with character and an appreciation what it means to attend and graduate from Holy Cross. The Butlers, Faws and Wades are the exception . . . . we think. Every recruit Milan Brown brought in graduated from Holy Cross except one homesick kid, who left when Brown was fired. This wasn't a hundred years ago - it's starting to look like the glory days..
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Post by timholycross on Apr 22, 2020 17:29:08 GMT -5
Staring right down the barrel at another 3 win season. Then they would have won 5 or 6 WITH him. He's not worth 7 or 8 wins. What did Branch Rickey say to Ralph Kiner (when he wanted a raise): "We finished last with you and we can finish last without you".
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Post by trimster on Apr 22, 2020 17:35:46 GMT -5
Staring right down the barrel at another 3 win season. Then they would have won 5 or 6 WITH him. He's not worth 7 or 8 wins. What did Branch Rickey say to Ralph Kiner (when he wanted a raise): "We finished last with you and we can finish last without you". A door opens for someone else. On a separate note, Reilly and Wade have become elder statesmen.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Apr 22, 2020 17:36:46 GMT -5
At this point, I'd be surprised if Wade hung around. In that event, the Carmody recruits graduating from Holy Cross will consist of Le Sann, and two rising seniors who have no viable basketball futures elsewhere. Truly remarkable.
And in the spirit of cleaning house, I think it's time for Kennedy to go.
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Post by sarasota on Apr 22, 2020 17:40:32 GMT -5
With all the money sloshing around higher level programs, coaches' salaries, coaches' endorsements, TV contracts, alumni donations, etc., you KNOW JP was romanced by higher level programs. Unfortunately, big money corrupts. Also, you have to put yourself in a guy like JP's shoes. The hundreds of hours of sweat , the flattering attention, his dreams of college and pro life, his world becomes nothing but basketball, finding out in his Frosh year that he is better than even he thought he could be, awards, recognitions. He is RIPE. Then he gets a call from a name program and his heart skips a beat. He's just a KID. Would be surprised if he doesn't jump ship.
I almost feel like saying....GET RID OF THE GODDAM SCHOLARSHIPS. Let's try to become a college again, stop pursuing a chimera. Stop making the tail wag the dog. Offer a fabulous four-year college experience that includes rich sports programs offering competition and fun. Oh wait......there exists such a world. Certain colleges are already living in that world. It's called......
Div. III might fit the bill. Maybe, it is time to get out of the sports entertainment business. Div. I sports may be an anachronism for HC. Cut expenses, lower payroll - athletic scholarships, coaches salaries, recruiting expenses, etc. Keep sports for those students who are interested. (NESCAC is not an option. An Amherst grad acquaintance merely smiled at the suggestion.) Is this what you had in mind? I don't think Amherst, Williams, Wesleyan are hurting. Their academic reputations certainly are not hurting.
Endowments:
Amherst $2.47 Billion Williams $2.89 Billion Wesleyan $1.08 Billion
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