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Post by trimster on Apr 22, 2020 19:27:05 GMT -5
Even at Holy Cross, I think most if not all of our men’s hoop recruits are used to being told how good they are and on average may not have faced much adversity before experiencing it in college.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 22, 2020 19:34:49 GMT -5
LeSann was persuaded not to transfer two years ago. Probably because his options were limited for another full scholarship NCAA D1 program. The last class that Milan recruited, Pat, Jehyve and Marcellis, stayed for the full four years, and contributed to the school not just on the court but to the HC community. Matt Zignorski was in the same position as Clayton regarding having limited transfer options to a D1 program and receiving a scholarship. The retention rate for the team over the last five years can be described as atrocious and must be raising serious red flags on Mahogany Row. I am very disappointed in the recruiting of students under FCBC. The only shining moment was the 10 days in March 2016. Truly a lightning in a bottle experience that gave us all hope that the program was going in the right direction. We can only hope that the seven students entering next year will stay for four years and graduate fro HC. Time will tell. It this nightmare of the past 5 months I can see Wade leaving and If both Faw and Butler have enough credits at the end of the summer see both of them depart as well. Actually don’t think that will ever happen because everything they have offered the program has been nothing less than a complete commitment. our daily prayers around the virus, our families and those in need, might include an occasional request that our hoops program finds the right path forward. Faw and Butler have been excellent team players. They both have a chance for very productive years if they have well defined roles on a settled roster and system. It's hard to imagine how settled it can be with all the turnover, but if the entire coaching staff is back that would be one less new variable to contend with. If the coaching staff has mastered their learning curve and are all on the same page that is one small advantage.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 22, 2020 19:38:07 GMT -5
Zignorski loved Holy Cross He struck me as a typical member of the student body I could relate to and he contributed right away as a Freshman as I recall.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 22, 2020 19:38:48 GMT -5
I almost feel like saying....GET RID OF THE G-D SCHOLARSHIPS. Let's try to become a college again, stop pursuing a chimera. Stop making the tail wag the dog. Offer a fabulous four-year college experience that includes rich sports programs offering competition and fun. Oh wait......there exists such a world. Certain colleges are already living in that world. It's called......
In the end, it comes down to commitment, not who's paying the bill. Transfers are hitting every school this spring. It's too easy to see a greener grass somewhere down the road.
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Post by deep Purple on Apr 22, 2020 19:41:31 GMT -5
Where's BBC? So much for all those good feelings heading into next season. Right here. Of course losing Pridgen would suck, but one player does not make a program. I'm still not sure what you're saying Nelson should be doing differently. The program was in an awful place when he arrived, with an absolutely horrendous losing culture, and he is working on establishing a new culture predicated on this such as toughness and accountability. Doing so weeds out players who do not belong, but it also poses the risk that others (such as Pridgen) may not want to be part of a rebuild. This is the first transfer that would have a significant impact on the program, but I remain hopeful that Nelson has the recruiting chops to fill the gap -- we are off to a good start with Martindale, Bo, Bubba, and Townsel arriving in the fall. Exactly! This is a three year rebuild. The program was decimated by MB and BC and it's not going to turn around overnight. JP is the only returner who will be missed, but it's not like he is irreplaceable. I have confidence that BN will use the schollie to find someone better. People need to get a grip, stop whining and stop being so short-sighted.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 22, 2020 19:51:49 GMT -5
Better than Pridgen at this date is a bloody long shot
Yes he is replaceable but at this level, and with some experience, that will be tough
Short sided is what you must be- he might become a great coach, but so far he has lost 2/3 of his inherited roster , gave the school an all time disastrous record, and looked lost on the sideline
So yes I am looking at today and not three years from now
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Post by cmo on Apr 22, 2020 20:15:06 GMT -5
Even at Holy Cross, I think most if not all of our men’s hoop recruits are used to being told how good they are and on average may not have faced much adversity before experiencing it in college. . Nature of the sport.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 22, 2020 20:37:21 GMT -5
Zignorski loved Holy Cross He struck me as a typical member of the student body I could relate to and he contributed right away as a Freshman as I recall. Maybe after his experience with Fordham, he realized how fortunate he was to be at HC. Particularly after winning the PL championship and playing in two NCAA tournament games. Wish that many other of his teammates had have developed that same maturity and sense of appreciation for their opportunity. The grass is not always greener on another campus, or the rims more forgiving on that bank shot.
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Post by deep Purple on Apr 22, 2020 20:37:27 GMT -5
Better than Pridgen at this date is a bloody long shot Yes he is replaceable but at this level, and with some experience, that will be tough Short sided is what you must be- he might become a great coach, but so far he has lost 2/3 of his inherited roster , gave the school an all time disastrous record, and looked lost on the sideline So yes I am looking at today and not three years from now Yeah, he lost 2/3 of an inherited roster that can't play at this level. And considering "this level" is the PL, that's pretty ______ pathetic! As far as "all time disastrous record" -- see above. Ultimately, it's up to the players to produce. BN can't go out there and play for them. I went to the UMass Boston game and remember thinking "we could use a couple of those guys" JMO but it wouldn't bother me one bit if the entire roster this year is comprised of freshman recruited by BN.
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Post by hc87 on Apr 22, 2020 20:37:53 GMT -5
Following low-mid-major basketball is increasingly becoming a chore in many ways.
Nobody's fault really, though we can blame coaches etc to make us feel bettah...it's basically just how the sport has evolved/devolved ovah the last decade or so.
There really aren't any answers/silver bullets for HC hoop where it is today. We can become "quasi-respectable" but even then, we are so far down the food-chain now it really won't mattah much.
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Post by thecrossisback on Apr 22, 2020 22:42:36 GMT -5
It’s time to bring some HC players back that played four full years. Floyd, Miller, Alexander, Champion, Dudzinski back to at least talk to the players about what it means to play at and for Holy Cross.
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Post by ilikepizza on Apr 22, 2020 22:44:11 GMT -5
I mean.... the trend is undeniable, and I don't mean to minimize it. BUT.... This is not like the other ones. He probably has interest from a higher level of program. Love his game, but he isn’t playing the 4 a level up, and can’t play a 3 unless he makes significant changes to his game.
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Post by sarasota on Apr 22, 2020 22:57:07 GMT -5
Please let’s stop with the Division-3 nonsense. Holy Cross is never, repeat NEVER, going to move to division-3 The band playing on the deck of the Titanic as it slips beneath the waves..... You and your cohort have no capacity for innovative, futuristic, imaginative thinking. You're stuck with past sports glories that are dead as a doornail, never to return. Get over it. If Holy Cross today retains vibrancy as an institution of higher learning it is due to its legacy of its alums' academic and professional success--NOT its sports history. It's impossible to drive along the road when you are constantly looking in the rear mirror.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Apr 22, 2020 23:49:19 GMT -5
'Sota-- I know you believe you have great insights and an understanding of life's issues, and that you can see with clear eyes and objectivity while the fools around you are misled. I'm confident that you'll persist in that belief, no matter how many times you are proved wrong on subjects large or small, and maybe that makes you happy. Still, I'll stick with my prediction that Holy Cross is not going Division-3. I'll be glad to make a large wager with you on the subject--you set the expiration date.
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Post by sarasota on Apr 23, 2020 0:47:50 GMT -5
'Sota-- I know you believe you have great insights and an understanding of life's issues, and that you can see with clear eyes and objectivity while the fools around you are misled. I'm confident that you'll persist in that belief, no matter how many times you are proved wrong on subjects large or small, and maybe that makes you happy. Still, I'll stick with my prediction that Holy Cross is not going Division-3. I'll be glad to make a large wager with you on the subject--you set the expiration date. For HC to remain in Div I long term, changes would be required that don't seem likely, e.g., the addition of Masters degree(s), the addition of full Summer academic programs, flexible Admissions policy concerning athletes, clear commitment by TPTB that athletics is a higher priority than it is presently, etc. I'm confident that these changes will not be made and that therefore the move to Div III is inevitable. It will happen, but probably not before I'm pushin up daisies (I'm 78). It would be helpful to both HC's sports as well as academic long term health if it changed its name to something like "Worcester Jesuit College." After all, I'm sure Boston College, Fordham, Fairfield, St Louis, Gonzaga, Regis, San Francisco, etc., don't feel their dedication to Catholicism is any less just because their names are not as "in your face" as "Holy Cross." The context for this is our increasingly secular (or at least less sectarian) society as well as the gradual disappearance of Catholic high schools.
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Post by bfoley82 on Apr 23, 2020 2:18:27 GMT -5
'Sota-- I know you believe you have great insights and an understanding of life's issues, and that you can see with clear eyes and objectivity while the fools around you are misled. I'm confident that you'll persist in that belief, no matter how many times you are proved wrong on subjects large or small, and maybe that makes you happy. Still, I'll stick with my prediction that Holy Cross is not going Division-3. I'll be glad to make a large wager with you on the subject--you set the expiration date. For HC to remain in Div I long term, changes would be required that don't seem likely, e.g., the addition of Masters degree(s), the addition of full Summer academic programs, flexible Admissions policy concerning athletes, clear commitment by TPTB that athletics is a higher priority than it is presently, etc. I'm confident that these changes will not be made and that therefore the move to Div III is inevitable. It will happen, but probably not before I'm pushin up daisies (I'm 78). It would be helpful to both HC's sports as well as academic long term health if it changed its name to something like "Worcester Jesuit College." After all, I'm sure Boston College, Fordham, Fairfield, St Louis, Gonzaga, Regis, San Francisco, etc., don't feel their dedication to Catholicism is any less just because their names are not as "in your face" as "Holy Cross." The context for this is our increasingly secular (or at least less sectarian) society as well as the gradual disappearance of Catholic high schools. Besides the church on campus, if the school was name Worcester College instead of Holy Cross would anyone know it is a religious school? I would think 90-95 percent of people outside of New England don’t know that about BC and the same for San Francisco
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Post by sarasota on Apr 23, 2020 4:12:09 GMT -5
bfoley82- Thanks for making my point for me.
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pcfriar
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 53
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Post by pcfriar on Apr 23, 2020 5:15:14 GMT -5
This guy would have sat the bench at say PC or BC. He’s undersized and can’t shoot. He was a nice player at HC and should have stayed there. He’s not exactly a passer either. He’s a product of a team that had limited talent. He freelanced a lot. Nelson deserved better. He was no Michael V. That guy was a winner!this guy is a quitter.
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Post by gks on Apr 23, 2020 5:35:28 GMT -5
Jeff Goodman tweeted Joe Pridgen is transferring Holy Cross leading scorer Joe Pridgen is in the transfer portal, per source. The 6-5 freshman guard averaged 17.4 points and 6.8 rebounds this past season. 21 If someone with the cache of Goodman is tweeting it I wouldn't call it a rumor. A rumor that Pridgen wanted out was circling around Worcester all winter. This athletic department is a mess. But it goes far above the AD. It's like a broken record of issues on the hill. Be thankful for Chesney. First opportunity he's gone from there. Then what.....
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Post by dadominate on Apr 23, 2020 6:24:25 GMT -5
absolute dagger. pridgen was/is the perfect mid-major player. was more excited about his game and potential than any other hc player in recent memory.
so now alongside *hoping* that we have an immediate impact point guard to replace the immediate impact point guard we couldn't hold on to, we also have to *hope* that we have an immediate impact physical scoring machine to replace the immediate impact physical scoring machine we couldn't hold on to.
i'm a crossports poster and am thus optimistic and crazy enough to hang in there for the long haul through disaster after disaster, but i have never been more concerned about the program at every level than i am right now. taking a break from posting as there is very little objectively positive to say, other than admiration for those few guys who are sticking in through this crap (especially ab for playing so far out of position because of this mess).
it's hard to imagine a worse start to the nelson era, although i guess things can only improve from here and can't get worse. can they?!?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Apr 23, 2020 6:26:38 GMT -5
This guy would have sat the bench at say PC or BC. He’s undersized and can’t shoot. He was a nice player at HC and should have stayed there. He’s not exactly a passer either. He’s a product of a team that had limited talent. He freelanced a lot. Nelson deserved better. He was no Michael V. That guy was a winner!this guy is a quitter. So now we're going to start bad mouthing the kid....nice. And how do you know Coach Nelson deserves better? Trial just starting; never mind the jury being out. I hope we don't, but maybe a few years from now we'll think some of the players deserved better.
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Post by joe on Apr 23, 2020 6:40:28 GMT -5
Things CAN get worse, ie. when recruits or freshman start bailing for one reason or another.
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Post by trimster on Apr 23, 2020 6:47:02 GMT -5
absolute dagger. pridgen was/is the perfect mid-major player. was more excited about his game and potential than any other hc player in recent memory. so now alongside *hoping* that we have an immediate impact point guard to replace the immediate impact point guard we couldn't hold on to, we also have to *hope* that we have an immediate impact physical scoring machine to replace the immediate impact physical scoring machine we couldn't hold on to. i'm a crossports poster and am thus optimistic and crazy enough to hang in there for the long haul through disaster after disaster, but i have never been more concerned about the program at every level than i am right now. taking a break from posting as there is very little objectively positive to say, other than admiration for those few guys who are sticking in through this crap (especially ab for playing so far out of position because of this mess). it's hard to imagine a worse start to the nelson era, although i guess things can only improve from here and can't get worse. can they?!? Remember when HC didn’t have scholarships for ten years. That was worse.
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Post by efg72 on Apr 23, 2020 6:58:17 GMT -5
Jeff Goodman tweeted Joe Pridgen is transferring Holy Cross leading scorer Joe Pridgen is in the transfer portal, per source. The 6-5 freshman guard averaged 17.4 points and 6.8 rebounds this past season. 21 If someone with the cache of Goodman is tweeting it I wouldn't call it a rumor. A rumor that Pridgen wanted out was circling around Worcester all winter. This athletic department is a mess. But it goes far above the AD. It's like a broken record of issues on the hill. Be thankful for Chesney. First opportunity he's gone from there. Then what..... Started the thread based on a text from my son saying Pridgen was gone-I adjusted the message once he sent Jeff’s tweet -agree that if he puts something out it is unlikely a rumor
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Post by dadominate on Apr 23, 2020 7:12:06 GMT -5
absolute dagger. pridgen was/is the perfect mid-major player. was more excited about his game and potential than any other hc player in recent memory. so now alongside *hoping* that we have an immediate impact point guard to replace the immediate impact point guard we couldn't hold on to, we also have to *hope* that we have an immediate impact physical scoring machine to replace the immediate impact physical scoring machine we couldn't hold on to. i'm a crossports poster and am thus optimistic and crazy enough to hang in there for the long haul through disaster after disaster, but i have never been more concerned about the program at every level than i am right now. taking a break from posting as there is very little objectively positive to say, other than admiration for those few guys who are sticking in through this crap (especially ab for playing so far out of position because of this mess). it's hard to imagine a worse start to the nelson era, although i guess things can only improve from here and can't get worse. can they?!? Remember when HC didn’t have scholarships for ten years. That was worse. i was at hc during the non-scholarship era and while we were weak, the program was in better shape. how many times did we go 3-29 in that era? how many weak d3 teams did we lose to? other than walter brown, how many impact players transferred? how many players left the team/school for undisclosed reasons? how much coaching turnover did we have? i honestly have a hard time seeing how we were worse then.
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